2015 Delistings
- Thread starter earlsta
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Your comparing apples with apples. Both should be delisted or in the case of our former captain sent to the sanfl side to replace callinan
It took one dodgy pre-season training program to derail the entire season of a then 8 year AFL veteran and club captain, who also happened to be one of the fittest guys in the league. Not buying that.
Pugsley
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Yeah nah that didn't read like it was your opinion.
My opinion - Knight on one wing and Martin on the other, Mackay in the SANFL.
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but it'd probably make you feel better.
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I think the Martin delisting is a bit rough. Would rather have him inside the glass "break in emergency" cabinet than any of Wright, VB or MacKay
His impact had dropped considerably in his 2 years before the injury , he only got a game because he was captain . The game is different now and slow footed guys with a low power and strength base are only worthy of a game if they have ELITE disposal . He is not even close to that ! Grigg is the guy in our team we can afford to be a little slow as he uses the ball exceptionally well and we really should have gotten another 25-30 games into him over the last 3 years so that he is ready to hit his next level in the AFL when this team in rising . You have to have a vision and pick guys you believe will be part of the ultimate success and i can tell you now that VB , Wright , Mackay and even Thompson will not be in that team but guys like Crouches , Atkins , Knight , Grigg , Kerridge and possibly CEY will be . If we had of played the younger guys more and we decided to trade one then at least they would have currency . Mackay has zero now as does Wright and Mackay could have been traded 2 years ago but instead we fork out 1.6 mill over 4 for a guy who basically sucks . All i see from our list managers and contract givers is incorrect value on alot of players within the club . To me there are too many voices and not enough decision . Too many nice guys rewarded for mediocrity !
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Does anyone know if there is any truth ti Shaw signing a 2 year deal. And that they are looking at playing him as a big mid next year? Just heard this along the grapevine. sorry posted this on another thread too
My opinion - Atkins was the unlucky player, but Wright, Grigg and CEY (along with Mackay) were all deemed better options than Martin. Martin wasn't unlucky, he wasn't even in the running.
Averaged over 20 in his last 7 or so prior to final round injury. Has Dmac ever put together close to 2 months if 20+.
skoobydoo
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Yep. This goes for the VB types as well as the Martin types. There are players who can achieve a level of perceived professional performance (peter piper...)which is often above their true 'value'. Elite preparation, presentation and personal skills help extend an image that endures many games beyond, again, their real value. We are all (including the best of coaches) guilty of hanging onto what we may have seen and 'know' from a players' past showings and discard the present reality. I have always considered VB's disposal quality to be sub-standard, but this aspect of his game seems to be 'carried' by how his other talents are seen. We each have an inherent like/dislike of players (and their personalities) and this makes it difficult to be truly objective. We all see different things and even the best coaches have their 'favourites'.
End of spiel.
His impact dropped away in 2013, after Sando tried turning him from an endurance runner with reasonable pace (but certainly not express), into He-Man. His form in 2012 was just fine, with VB finishing 7th in the Club Champion voting that year. At no point was his selection purely on the basis that "he was captain" - that's pure BF fantasy.
Grigg's problem is that he's as slow as treacle. Slow players can get away with it if they are inside extractors, with elite disposal by hand and foot, have elite decision making, and an elite ability to read the play (getting themselves to the right position despite their limited mobility). Sam Mitchell is a perfect example of a slow player who is elite at every other aspect, and who will be an AFL Hall of Fame member eventually. Grigg isn't particularly strong inside, and the only aspect of his game which is elite is his left foot kicking. That's not enough, and that's why he hasn't played those extra 25-30 games you want. Grigg is not Sam Mitchell, and he never will be. It's why I think he's highly unlikely to be on our team list in 2017 and may not even be around in 2016.
As for picking those "you believe will be part of the ultimate success" you're absolutely right - and the club does this. The problem is that your opinion differs from the club's opinion when it comes to who those players should be. You're wrong about the "too many voices and not enough decision", the problem is that you just don't agree with the decisions that they're making.
You may be right about too many mediocre players. I actually agree with you on this. The problem is that there just aren't any better players on the list. CEY, Grigg, Lyons and Kerridge are all very mediocre as well. Replacing VB or Mackay with these players doesn't materially improve our team, and in the case of VB, it makes the team worse (conversely, replacing Mackay does improve the team, but only marginally).
Discarding Thompson now is sheer stupidity, and I'll leave it at that.
You can.. but you need to pay out the remaining years on the contract, and those payments have to be included in this year's TPP (salary cap).
VB was never going to be delisted this year, regardless of his 2016 contractual situation. I doubt Mackay was either, given that they rated him highly enough to select him for those finals games (and yes, I know he played horribly in both finals).
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You have a fine way of dancing around a direct question. So Atkins for you?
CEY and Grigg were not "deemed" better options, they were not even in the frame after July 3rd. CEY is also an inside mid, not an outside wingman that can play back. Grigg is more of a outside player but without the tank. Neither of these guys were close to getting a game nor was Kerridge.
Martin was in the 21 for the Sydney game at the SCG when he got tonsilitis which suggests to me he was at that point "deemed" a better option than Grigg or CEY notwithstanding the different roles. His recovery took a couple of weeks and after that it was always going to be tough.
I think Martin has been lucky to hang around for as long as he has and I knew he was going to be delisted. I am simply perplexed that he got so few opportunities when he offers more than Wright, Mackay and (in my opinion) your beloved van Berlo.
You throw so much s**t at the wall that some is bound to stick eventually.
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Oh God.
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Discarding Thompson now is what other clubs would do, not the AFC.
Given how inexperienced our team list is at present, and the form Thompson showed in 2015 (finishing top-10 in the B&F), there is not a single list manager in the AFL who would be delisting Thompson this year.
We currently have 11 players on our list who have played 100+ games. Of those, Reilly and JPod are both retiring and Dangerfield is being traded to Geelong. That leaves 8 players. Mackay is (hopefully) destined to play out the remainder of his career in the SANFL, so that leaves just 7 in the AFL team. In contrast, Hawthorn had 18 players with 100+ games when they played Freo last Friday.
Discarding Thompson now would be an act of stupidity, the likes of which could only be contemplated here on BF, where shiny toys are worshiped and anyone over the age of 28 is regarded as being past it and ripe for the scrapheap. It would never be contemplated in the real world.
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Of course, it's stupid and without precedent in the AFL.
I think it's more arguing how the output for the players are similar (argued both ways) yet the two standards we seem to be treating our depth players.
One (correctly) is given a single year deal and used the way he should be - as a depth player. On the other hand, others remain in the best 22 when they do very little to show they're best 22 players and are handed multiple year deals to remain at the club when the threat of them leaving is low/any potential loss isn't hard to replace.
What I find annoying is we still don't seem to be learning if the reports are correct that Shaw has also been given a 2 year deal along Otten. I like Otten, but why are we giving two injury prone guys that are depth players (at this point) multiple year deals? I'd rather our club give them the 1 year, if they have a good season then pay more in the long run and give them a better deal the following season. If Shaw's 2016 season is like his 2015 season, then what good will he be to have on the list for yet another season?
