2016 Draft discussion

[briztoon]

Do ya?

Why not? I'd make every player on our list born before '96 available for trade, and every draft pick outside the first 2 rounds available as well for a chance to draft 1 & 2 or 2 & 3 or 1 & 3.

 

[briztoon]

Knightmare had a little bit to say on Brodie, SPS and Allison in his latests posts in his draft thread.

McCluggage I don't think is much of a consideration at pick 1 though he'd be my pick if you asked me today. My view may change over the course of the season though as he's not as dominating of a contested ball winner as I'd ideally like for a top few player. Though I'd say similar of a fair number this year who otherwise have excellent talent.

Whoever finishes with pick one is expected to bid on Jack Bowes.

The debate after Bowes and perhaps a few other academy players who may command a bid would be Petrevski-Seton and Will Brodie if the draft was today. Brisbane would benefit from having either. If asked which of the two I'd go for, on quality and list fit Petrevski-Seton I like as Brisbane lack something in ball movement, and Brodie while a very good inside player isn't that dominating contested bull of a stoppage player on that Priddis/Kennedy level that probably is needed.

---

Brodie isn't Ollie Wines. He lacks that same physical strength and power. He isn't a contested ball winning beast or stoppage specialist on that level.

Brodie after a few froffies might somewhat resemble Bontempelli, though his impact is not close.

---

Allison while he is tall, lean and can win the contested ball as could be said of Bontempelli isn't even an on-baller as Bontempelli and could be categorised in some respects as something like what Bontempelli would look like if he couldn't play on the ball and have an impact at stoppages. So you've still got pace, contested marking ability, a long kick that can do some damage, ball winning ability etc but he isn't going into the centre square and having the same impact which is where the difference is abundantly clear at this stage until Allison gets more of a go on the ball.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Why not? I'd make every player on our list born before '96 available for trade, and every draft pick outside the first 2 rounds available as well for a chance to draft 1 & 2 or 2 & 3 or 1 & 3.

I've been reading some of your posts and you simply cannot compare the AFL to American sports in terms of recruiting/drafting/trading.

First off, American athletes come out of the college system pretty much ready to play (baseball is probably the exception). This isn't the case here where kids need 3-4 years development before they're expected to contribute.
Second, as you would appreciate, movement of players is a lot more restrictive, therefore its harder to correct team deficiencies with free agency or trades.
Third, American sports are uniform markets - all sports are entrenched in the culture. Sure there pockets where certain sports are more popular, but by-and-large you're not competing as a lesser sport against a major one like we do in Brisbane. Bottoming out isn't always the best option in our market.

Friendly word of advice - if you keep pushing your views on recruiting as if they're an American sport I'm guessing you're going to start pissing a lot of people off who probably have a lot more knoeldge on the subject.

 

[briztoon]

I've been reading some of your posts and you simply cannot compare the AFL to American sports in terms of recruiting/drafting/trading.

First off, American athletes come out of the college system pretty much ready to play (baseball is probably the exception). This isn't the case here where kids need 3-4 years development before they're expected to contribute.

That used to be the case, but not so much any more. For the top kids, it's very much one and done in college, especially in Basketball. Teams know that they will be drafting players which will need a fair amount of work these days. Even you top players are still viewed development picks.

Second, as you would appreciate, movement of players is a lot more restrictive, therefore its harder to correct team deficiencies with free agency or trades.

This has already been made pretty clear to me. Which all the more influences my belief that building through the draft is the best way to go. With the academy, we're going to have priority pick of all the best local talent. There will be less go home factor for Brisbane kids that were drafted to southern teams, simply because all the top QLD kids will be staying home. There won't be to many Beams in the future.

Third, American sports are uniform markets - all sports are entrenched in the culture. Sure there pockets where certain sports are more popular, but by-and-large you're not competing as a lesser sport against a major one like we do in Brisbane. Bottoming out isn't always the best option in our market.

Again not really the case. Different parts of the USA lean heavily towards different sports, or even level of sports. There are areas where College Basketball or Football are king, yet professional franchise find hard to gain a foothold. Or, there are teams that are viewed as small market teams that struggle to attract marque talent or keep marque talent they have drafted beyond that players second contract. Typically your top players move for two reasons, to a large market team where they can maximise their "brand" or to a contender where they can win championships.

Friendly word of advice - if you keep pushing your views on recruiting as if they're an American sport I'm guessing you're going to start pissing a lot of people off who probably have a lot more knoeldge on the subject.

Seriously why would anyone get pissed off about what is said on a sports blog?

Apart from my introductory "I'm a noob and know **** all so take anything I say with a healthy dose of skepticism". I haven't been referencing American sports culture to support my view. There are different avenues to building a team. Others have already highlighted current AFL teams who are doing exactly what I am suggesting, so it is an accepted avenue for rebuilding a team. The main difference is that those teams are in AFL heartland and can use that to their advantage to sign players away from GWS, GC or Brisbane to support their rebuilding. As is painfully obvious, Brisbane does not have that luxury. Not when it comes to attracting players that will make us in to a top four team. Look at the "name" players we have recruited recently and look at the product on the field. Do you see the needle moving in a positive direction yet?

All I am suggesting is that we take a longer view the rebuild the team, and use the one advantage we have, our Academy. I understand the longer view will be unpalatable to some (most?) who have suffered through 10+ years of losing and AFL irrelevance, but I still see some fans still advocating the same path. There are people here who are advocating for making the top 8 with xyz moves, but the moves don't have the potential to push us towards the top of the sport.

Seriously, nothing we say here matters anyway. Unless you are Matthews in disguise.

 

[dmac_55]

That used to be the case, but not so much any more. For the top kids, it's very much one and done in college, especially in Basketball. Teams know that they will be drafting players which will need a fair amount of work these days. Even you top players are still viewed development picks.



This has already been made pretty clear to me. Which all the more influences my belief that building through the draft is the best way to go. With the academy, we're going to have priority pick of all the best local talent. There will be less go home factor for Brisbane kids that were drafted to southern teams, simply because all the top QLD kids will be staying home. There won't be to many Beams in the future.



Again not really the case. Different parts of the USA lean heavily towards different sports, or even level of sports. There are areas where College Basketball or Football are king, yet professional franchise find hard to gain a foothold. Or, there are teams that are viewed as small market teams that struggle to attract marque talent or keep marque talent they have drafted beyond that players second contract. Typically your top players move for two reasons, to a large market team where they can maximise their "brand" or to a contender where they can win championships.



Seriously why would anyone get pissed off about what is said on a sports blog?

Apart from my introductory "I'm a noob and know **** all so take anything I say with a healthy dose of skepticism". I haven't been referencing American sports culture to support my view. There are different avenues to building a team. Others have already highlighted current AFL teams who are doing exactly what I am suggesting, so it is an accepted avenue for rebuilding a team. The main difference is that those teams are in AFL heartland and can use that to their advantage to sign players away from GWS, GC or Brisbane to support their rebuilding. As is painfully obvious, Brisbane does not have that luxury. Not when it comes to attracting players that will make us in to a top four team. Look at the "name" players we have recruited recently and look at the product on the field. Do you see the needle moving in a positive direction yet?

All I am suggesting is that we take a longer view the rebuild the team, and use the one advantage we have, our Academy. I understand the longer view will be unpalatable to some (most?) who have suffered through 10+ years of losing and AFL irrelevance, but I still see some fans still advocating the same path. There are people here who are advocating for making the top 8 with xyz moves, but the moves don't have the potential to push us towards the top of the sport.

Seriously, nothing we say here matters anyway. Unless you are Matthews in disguise.

I am also a rabid follower of American sports.. The comparison needs to be looked at strictly NFL however as one talent in the NBA can change an entire franchises ceiling. For example Lebron James (AKA Gary Ablett Jr) moved to the Gold Coast in his prime and the side has barely managed a whimper.. Lebron basically transformed every franchise he was on instantly becoming contenders..

The NFL draft has had no guarantees of success at the high end of the draft, apart from sure thing QBs. This position is obviously the most important in all sports, whereas a midfielder, forward, ruck or defender could be all considered equal importance depending on the talent base around them.

 

[briztoon]

I am also a rabid follower of American sports.. The comparison needs to be looked at strictly NFL however as one talent in the NBA can change an entire franchises ceiling. For example Lebron James (AKA Gary Ablett Jr) moved to the Gold Coast in his prime and the side has barely managed a whimper.. Lebron basically transformed every franchise he was on instantly becoming contenders..

The NFL draft has had no guarantees of success at the high end of the draft, apart from sure thing QBs. This position is obviously the most important in all sports, whereas a midfielder, forward, ruck or defender could be all considered equal importance depending on the talent base around them.

Pretty much just follow the NBA. I prefer to follow Australian football codes. Except Union, I dislike union and I come from a TAS school.

I understand that you need more than one Super Star or All Australian to genuinely compete. I do know from looking at previous drafts, generally the higher the draft pick, the less chance of missing on a player.

Look, I'm not advocating rebuilding solely through the draft. I just don't see the point in spending salary cap money on middling players or maybe players right now. It's not like there are any genuine top class players available that we could be in then market for come next trade period. If we can get a foundation group of young developing players in, say the 5 from last years draft, plus Harris Andrews, add 4 or 5 more high draft picks and academy kids this years draft, then another 4 or 5 the following year, we will then have a nucleus to sign players around.

We have a couple of highly rated midfielder in their prime right now, if we can't genuinely build a championship team around them before they are past it, what is the point of signing players now who will move us up the rankings now and out of a high future draft pick in 2017, which is supposed to be full of top end quality kids.

 

[M Malice]

Pretty much just follow the NBA. I prefer to follow Australian football codes. Except Union, I dislike union and I come from a TAS school.

I understand that you need more than one Super Star or All Australian to genuinely compete. I do know from looking at previous drafts, generally the higher the draft pick, the less chance of missing on a player.

Look, I'm not advocating rebuilding solely through the draft. I just don't see the point in spending salary cap money on middling players or maybe players right now. It's not like there are any genuine top class players available that we could be in then market for come next trade period. If we can get a foundation group of young developing players in, say the 5 from last years draft, plus Harris Andrews, add 4 or 5 more high draft picks and academy kids this years draft, then another 4 or 5 the following year, we will then have a nucleus to sign players around.

We have a couple of highly rated midfielder in their prime right now, if we can't genuinely build a championship team around them before they are past it, what is the point of signing players now who will move us up the rankings now and out of a high future draft pick in 2017, which is supposed to be full of top end quality kids.

the mature recruits we have had come in under leppa.

2013- luke mcguanne, trent west.
2014- mitch robinson, allen christensen, dayne beams.
2015- tom bell, josh walker, ryan bastinac.

mcguanne and west are obvious busts, like the 2014 ins, jury still out on 2015 although i am not liking what tom bell has shown so far. i was upbeat re his signing although i hadn't watched a lot of carlton so was more going off highlight reels his disposal and vision are pretty poor.

the only elite talent i can see who is potentially gettable is michael hurley. i am with you get in elite kids from the academy, proviso is if they are bid on and we rate a kid elsewhere as better we don't match the bid, best available in the draft, and only trade in quality.

in schache and andrews we have 2 keys to build a team around. ben keays has been impressive in his 2 games and hopefully we find our about "beast mode" matheison in the next few weeks. allison and rolls are both rated very highly from next years academy plus with a likely top 2/3 pick we will get another elite talent, that's 7 very highly rated players to go with current elite talent in rockliff and d.beams. christnsen and robinson are very good or will be IMO.

i am sure a few of the young 19-20 year olds we currently have on our list will step up, so i feel the bare bones are there or will be next year.

really enjoy reading your thoughts briztoon

 

[BRAB]

If the AFL potentially gave us a PP we could land SPS, Brodie and Allison to go with Keays and Matho

Pretty solid young midfield group.

 

[dlanod]

mcguanne and west are obvious busts, like the 2014 ins, jury still out on 2015 although i am not liking what tom bell has shown so far. i was upbeat re his signing although i hadn't watched a lot of carlton so was more going off highlight reels his disposal and vision are pretty poor.

I'm not too stressed about Bell - I think a large part of why we got him was because he wanted to come up and be with his dad. We gave up the equivalent of pick 31, which isn't a bad gamble given we had enough points for our academy boys. Bastinac will probably be the main guy in question for recruiting in terms of opportunity cost and what we gave up, given we only gave up this year's third rounder for Walker and Jansen.

 

[M Malice]

If the AFL potentially gave us a PP we could land SPS, Brodie and Allison to go with Keays and Matho

Pretty solid young midfield group.

would be awesome but can not see it happening unless we had a 2 or 3 win season with numerous beltings, along with massive crowd drop offs and membership card microwaveing. i suppose the justin clarke retirement could come into it in any presentation for a PP.

 

[BRAB]

would be awesome but can not see it happening unless we had a 2 or 3 win season with numerous beltings, along with massive crowd drop offs and membership card microwaveing. i suppose the justin clarke retirement could come into it in any presentation for a PP.

Yeah in reality it probably won't.

However, i Could see all of that happening in our worst case scenario, looking at just the next month we play Melbourne and Hawthorn in the next fortnight which doesn't bode well, and then we've got Carlton and Freo in consecutive rounds

If we come out of the next four rounds with no wins; we're looking at a 2-3 win season with us hopefully beating Essendon away and Carlton at home.

Could see the crowd drops too, our marquee game was down a bit due to the league double header, Sydney was our 6th worst crowd ever. Only thing that'll save us are the Carlton, Geelong(?) and Hawthorn games cause the rest are against other interstate teams (Freo, WC, GWS, Port) which surely will just go like the Sydney game did?

Still though, we hit form again and we win 6-8 games and the PP is out the question.

I think if things go really really badly this year we might actually be a genuine shot at one. Would prefer some $$$$ for the new facilities though.

 

[TheHairyGamer]

I personally can't see us getting a PP but we do have a pretty good case for it. Side constantly struggling, Clarke's unexpected retirement when we was shaping as one of our key defenders, and the fact we keep having young players leaving each year (especially if Mayes goes this year) we could make a case but I don't think we will be successful

 

[Not a Psycho]

Interesting that Mark Robinson brought up the possibility of a priority pick on AFL 360 tonight.

 

[pulpdriver]

Interesting that Mark Robinson brought up the possibility of a priority pick on AFL 360 tonight.

Was brought up last year. We won't get one.

 

[Knightmare]

Despite popular belief picks and priority picks aren't what make teams good.

Anyone watch Melbourne before Paul Roos? Or Carlton before Chris Judd? Richmond before they traded for all those mature age players?

You need men to win football games.

If a team wants to get better a temporarily expanded salary cap that allows more players to walk in the door via free agency particularly and to a lesser extent trade would be more advantageous in my view.

Gold Coast need some veteran leadership such as Jack Grimes, Nathan Van Berlo and Jed Adcock as previous captains of their clubs to on the cheap add some veteran stability and then bring in your established players.. say Travis Cloke if he requests a trade at seasons end, Michael Barlow from Fremantle who seems to be going out of favour, Adam Tomlinson if anyone watched the GWS reserves v Gold Coast reserves in the NEAFL last weekend would know can ball. A package of Toby Nankervis, George Hewett and Jack Hiscox from Sydney if the trade could be orchestrated could lead to something. Nathan Wilson from GWS if Saad leaves at seasons end for a Victorian team would be an excellent replacement and an upgrade by position.

There are ways to get better. Adding more first year players while beneficial long term doesn't really do it though with the output of young players consistently inconsistent. So no one is winning any premierships going about building a list by constantly going through the draft without finding any help from opposition team lists.

 

[jackess]

Despite popular belief picks and priority picks aren't what make teams good.

Anyone watch Melbourne before Paul Roos? Or Carlton before Chris Judd? Richmond before they traded for all those mature age players?

You need men to win football games.

If a team wants to get better a temporarily expanded salary cap that allows more players to walk in the door via free agency particularly and to a lesser extent trade would be more advantageous in my view.

Gold Coast need some veteran leadership such as Jack Grimes, Nathan Van Berlo and Jed Adcock as previous captains of their clubs to on the cheap add some veteran stability and then bring in your established players.. say Travis Cloke if he requests a trade at seasons end, Michael Barlow from Fremantle who seems to be going out of favour, Adam Tomlinson if anyone watched the GWS reserves v Gold Coast reserves in the NEAFL last weekend would know can ball. A package of Toby Nankervis, George Hewett and Jack Hiscox from Sydney if the trade could be orchestrated could lead to something. Nathan Wilson from GWS if Saad leaves at seasons end for a Victorian team would be an excellent replacement and an upgrade by position.

There are ways to get better. Adding more first year players while beneficial long term doesn't really do it though with the output of young players consistently inconsistent. So no one is winning any premierships going about building a list by constantly going through the draft without finding any help from opposition team lists.

Do you know the origins of our 4 B & F winners from last year?

We're not relying on the draft or a priority pick.

 

[Knightmare]

Do you know the origins of our 4 B & F winners from last year?

We're not relying on the draft or a priority pick.

I have no idea how the above post got here. I believed I was responding to a Gold Coast thread that I was posting in earlier tonight.

I have no idea how this thread even appeared in my alerts to get directed here?

Oh well.

Much of the same logic is applicable in Brisbane's situation.

 

[captainrich]

Despite popular belief picks and priority picks aren't what make teams good.

Anyone watch Melbourne before Paul Roos? Or Carlton before Chris Judd? Richmond before they traded for all those mature age players?

You need men to win football games.

If a team wants to get better a temporarily expanded salary cap that allows more players to walk in the door via free agency particularly and to a lesser extent trade would be more advantageous in my view.

Gold Coast need some veteran leadership such as Jack Grimes, Nathan Van Berlo and Jed Adcock as previous captains of their clubs to on the cheap add some veteran stability and then bring in your established players.. say Travis Cloke if he requests a trade at seasons end, Michael Barlow from Fremantle who seems to be going out of favour, Adam Tomlinson if anyone watched the GWS reserves v Gold Coast reserves in the NEAFL last weekend would know can ball. A package of Toby Nankervis, George Hewett and Jack Hiscox from Sydney if the trade could be orchestrated could lead to something. Nathan Wilson from GWS if Saad leaves at seasons end for a Victorian team would be an excellent replacement and an upgrade by position.

There are ways to get better. Adding more first year players while beneficial long term doesn't really do it though with the output of young players consistently inconsistent. So no one is winning any premierships going about building a list by constantly going through the draft without finding any help from opposition team lists.

we had a crack at Nathan Wilson last year but he chose to re-sign with gws for another 2-3 years

the three from sydney wont leave, theyre generally good at picking out talents and holding on to them for the long haul.

tomlinson we have so many developing talls dunno what else he can add

but definetly see what you mean, we need to be smarter about our trades, still think we need a priority pick and it should be raised...if we get one it will have to be end of the first round or 2nd round, afl has stated they will never be that generous with picks again, funnily enough this was after they rewarded the heck out of collingwood and hawthorn and helped them build their premiership teams

 

[Quigley]

we had a crack at Nathan Wilson last year but he chose to re-sign with gws for another 2-3 years

the three from sydney wont leave, theyre generally good at picking out talents and holding on to them for the long haul.

tomlinson we have so many developing talls dunno what else he can add

but definetly see what you mean, we need to be smarter about our trades, still think we need a priority pick and it should be raised...if we get one it will have to be end of the first round or 2nd round, afl has stated they will never be that generous with picks again, funnily enough this was after they rewarded the heck out of collingwood and hawthorn and helped them build their premiership teams

Just to clarify. Tomlinson has been playing in the midfield for the GWS reserves. He has averaged 32 disposals, 12 marks and 5.6 clearances a game. He has been a bit inaccurate in front of goal but is fair to say that he has been killing it since being moved to the middle of hte ground. He is currently looking like the second coming of Josh Kennedy when he swapped from Hawthorn to Sydney and he will be in demand at the end of the year.

 

[lionshine]

Just to clarify. Tomlinson has been playing in the midfield for the GWS reserves. He has averaged 32 disposals, 12 marks and 5.6 clearances a game. He has been a bit inaccurate in front of goal but is fair to say that he has been killing it since being moved to the middle of hte ground. He is currently looking like the second coming of Josh Kennedy when he swapped from Hawthorn to Sydney and he will be in demand at the end of the year.

Wow he'd be an absolute beast in the midfield. He's a big boy.

Edit: I just checked his stats from his latest NEAFL match against the Suns. Wowee 44 disposals, 11 inside 50's, 13 marks, 4 tackles and 3 behinds. I'd love to see his clearance and contested possessions stats from that game.

Do want!

 

[lionshine]

Looking at some of the Div 2 U18 games so far one player that has really impressed me is Brandon Parfitt. He looks a class above. I'll be very interested in seeing how he performs for the Allies agains the Div 1 players. He just looks so classy and weaves in and out of traffic so effortlessly. He appears to have so much more time then everyone else as well and links up smartly with those around him. Definitely one to watch this year.

 

[Quigley]

Looking at some of the Div 2 U18 games so far one player that has really impressed me is Brandon Parfitt. He looks a class above. I'll be very interested in seeing how he performs for the Allies agains the Div 1 players. He just looks so classy and weaves in and out of traffic so effortlessly. He appears to have so much more time then everyone else as well and links up smartly with those around him. Definitely one to watch this year.

Yeah I am a massive fan of Parfitt. I think he is being underrated currently.

 

[lionshine]

Just to clarify. Tomlinson has been playing in the midfield for the GWS reserves. He has averaged 32 disposals, 12 marks and 5.6 clearances a game. He has been a bit inaccurate in front of goal but is fair to say that he has been killing it since being moved to the middle of hte ground. He is currently looking like the second coming of Josh Kennedy when he swapped from Hawthorn to Sydney and he will be in demand at the end of the year.

Quigley what do you think of Pat McKenna from the Giants? Has pace and quality disposal but appears to struggle to accumulate the football. He was plucked from country football and spent a lot of his junior career focusing on cricket so I'd say he has a fair bit of development left in him. He could be interested in a move in a bid for more senior opportunities.

 

[M Malice]

Just to clarify. Tomlinson has been playing in the midfield for the GWS reserves. He has averaged 32 disposals, 12 marks and 5.6 clearances a game. He has been a bit inaccurate in front of goal but is fair to say that he has been killing it since being moved to the middle of hte ground. He is currently looking like the second coming of Josh Kennedy when he swapped from Hawthorn to Sydney and he will be in demand at the end of the year.

interesting, tomlinson listed as 193cm and 95kg. had a quick look at a couple of other mids, patrick cripps 193cm 90kg, david mundy 192cm 89kg.

left field thought- i wonder if it would be worth trying michael close in the midfield as a contested ball beast? 196cm and 94kg, he has always been renowned for his elite aerobic capacity so that shouldn't be an issue. think it would be worth a trial in the reserves for a month or so and see how it works out, the last few seasons have shown us we need more contested ball animals in there.

 

[dlanod]

Just to clarify. Tomlinson has been playing in the midfield for the GWS reserves. He has averaged 32 disposals, 12 marks and 5.6 clearances a game. He has been a bit inaccurate in front of goal but is fair to say that he has been killing it since being moved to the middle of hte ground. He is currently looking like the second coming of Josh Kennedy when he swapped from Hawthorn to Sydney and he will be in demand at the end of the year.

Probably closer to a tall Scully rather than the next JPK, just because of his ability to run all day and his so-soness at getting the ball off the ground.