List Mgmt. 2016 Free Agency/Trades/Draft thread Part 2

[Elite Crow]

That pick 35 will most likely be the 25th best Vic, SA or WA kid. there are about 10 kids from the eastern states that will be pick up and 2 father sons. Then remove the picks required for Points. It balances out.
Thats a Graham or Scharenberg, plus a few Vic's that Bicks can add. And I would take a 19 year old Scharenberg for a 24 year old Lyons any day. One will be a Good Player one will be a great player.

A great player sliding to 25. Lock it in.

 

[Mismatched]

You might be right... I really wish we didn't have to lose Lyons for it though.

Agreed, I just get the feeling that he's kind of seen as surplus, or not seen to be fitting Pykes long term vision of our side and hence were better off moving him on now, rather than messing him around for another year or 2 and potentially losing our chance to gain something valuable for him in return.

I'm a bit 50-50 either way with Lyons, in the past we've gone guns blazing trying to sign up anyone/everyone prior to trade week in fear of actually losing a player, no matter his value and its left us with limited list management ability come trade week. His includes signing the likes of Reilly, Mackay, Martin and a number of others to long term, valuable contracts when there really was no need.

Irrespective of whether it's Lyons, Thompson or Rory Sloane, from a list management perspective I like that we appear to be getting a little more shrewd with our list management.

 

[baldandbroke]

You might be right... I really wish we didn't have to lose Lyons for it though.

But that is exactly the attitude that leaves your list to stagnate. You have to give up someone, and as we all know if you want something good coming in ... then barring Free Agency ... you have to pay for it with something decent going out.

CEY has currency? No way, he is not worth diddly-squat at the trade table ... he just has not proven himself at AFL level like Lyons now has. Could he? Sure, but that is the difference between the two ... the amount of risk. Lyons is the one who actually offers something, which is why we all would prefer not to lose him AND why others would want him.

Let's pretend that it is Rockliff. What would be his equivalent in our team as of right now? Brad Crouch? I reckon that is a fair comparison in 2016 (not potential ... actual performance). We aren't saying anything close to that sort of swap are we ... I mean Lyons is a good player but we are talking about a significant increase in performance ceiling if the change to our midfield is Rockliff in and Lyons out.

 

[ad victoriam]

A great player sliding to 25. Lock it in.

This year draft will go down as on of the best, We could end up with 3 x 10 year best 22 players.
1st round, 2nd round (Lyons) and maybe a Jarman or another 2nd round. depending on trades.
The Crows currently have a good balance side, They need midfield power,

 

[Mismatched]

You need to remember that the opposition coach votes are half the AFLCA votes. Malthouse/Barker obviously thought Thommo was good in that game, our coach maybe not so much?

I think what's been shown is that it's a pretty good, but by no means perfect indicator of B&F performance. What it is though is probably the best indicator we have available to us.

Lyons is certainly one though who probably suffered in the coaches awards from playing consistently well, without starring, so with the B&F counting as it is, he should preform better in that award.

The trouble Lyons will have in our B&F is that he's missed 4 games in a year where the majority of our best 22 have missed 1 game or less. I expect a finish between 8 and 18 for Lyons. Lots of wins with few big losses means a lot of "all played well" which means a very even count.

 

[ad victoriam]

This talk about Sloane needing help will be gone next year, with two brothers. and talk will be around a 4th midfielder. to either replace Thommo, Lyon, CEY, if they survive the cut or trade this year.
So unless a top elite Mid comes on board that will be around for 6-8 years, The Draft a better option. As mention before this year draft will go down as one of the best, and we could get 3 x 10 year top 22 if not top 10 players for the Crows
As for Rocklift, I dislike saying this but our brothers down the road have a better chance in getting him this year. Both with Trade value and salary cap, While we will be in the box seat next year as in Finals potential.
And these days top midfield Draft picks are up and running inside of 2 years,

Prediction we trade more players out than it. And attempt to improve our Draft picks.

 

[dylan123]

That would be a big win for Brisbane

A first and second round pick isn't exactly a big win for Brisbane given what they'd likely get in compo for him being a free agent if he left that way next year.

 

[Vhaluus]

A first and second round pick isn't exactly a big win for Brisbane given what they'd likely get in compo for him being a free agent if he left that way next year.

That would restrict them from being able to bring in free agents next year as well. Probably not a factor but worth considering.

 

[1990crow]

That would be a big win for Brisbane

Why? That's about what he's worth.

 

[big78sam]

I agree it's about fair value. You can't expect to get a club captain and very good player in for much less. If we had an earlier first round pick I'd say it was in Brisbane's favour. But a pick of around 13-18 that will likely slide a few spots I'd say it's about fair.

 

[mattymac]

This year draft will go down as on of the best, We could end up with 3 x 10 year best 22 players.
1st round, 2nd round (Lyons) and maybe a Jarman or another 2nd round. depending on trades.
The Crows currently have a good balance side, They need midfield power,

This talk about Sloane needing help will be gone next year, with two brothers. and talk will be around a 4th midfielder. to either replace Thommo, Lyon, CEY, if they survive the cut or trade this year.
So unless a top elite Mid comes on board that will be around for 6-8 years, The Draft a better option. As mention before this year draft will go down as one of the best, and we could get 3 x 10 year top 22 if not top 10 players for the Crows
As for Rocklift, I dislike saying this but our brothers down the road have a better chance in getting him this year. Both with Trade value and salary cap, While we will be in the box seat next year as in Finals potential.
And these days top midfield Draft picks are up and running inside of 2 years,

Prediction we trade more players out than it. And attempt to improve our Draft picks.

Mate I reckon you're pretty much alone with your draft don't trade crusade. Virtually everyone I've spoken to is seriously hopeful we land a gun mid by trade. Premiership windows don't last forever especially with GWS maturing with their entire 22 of draft picks before pick 20.

 

[ad victoriam]

Mate I reckon you're pretty much alone with your draft don't trade crusade. Virtually everyone I've spoken to is seriously hopeful we land a gun mid by trade. Premiership windows don't last forever especially with GWS maturing with their entire 22 of draft picks before pick 20.

Seriously hopeful may be the key words. Who left, in the elite bracket, and more importantly who can we get.
As I said unless we get an Elite mid with 6 years plus. its not worth it.
And I will hate to listen/read the comment in the next 2-3 years on how we could have gotten this bloke or that one.

Also our premiership window is open today and will close in about 3-4 year if we don't bring more than 1 elite type player x 6 year. I would prefer a longer window. and to get that we need to bring in 2 or 3 x 10 years good to very good/elite players in this year draft.
Choice is either or 1 elite player or 2-3 potential, Because that how good this years draft is and Hamish Ogilvie is not a slouch when it comes to talent. Also elite midfielder will cost us 2 top picks and force us to use another top pick on a mid next year, when we need to be hunting KPP.
It a gamble either way, But again who are the gun mids and remember our brothers next door, a top player coming to SA does not mean us.

 

[feenix67]

Dammit you had to include ALL my socks didn't you? I'm very fond of my Wizard of Oz ones. I will be very mad at you if I have to give them up.

Just doing Allefgib a favour

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I must have missed the press conference welcoming Lyons to the Kangaroos. As far as I'm aware there's a club a bit further north than North Melbourne that has the inside running if he was to leave.

I think there's still a bit of to and fro to go with the AFC too.

North of north as in Brisbane or GC?

 

[hippyhippy]

I have never posted a trade rumour in 8 or 9 years of bigfooty but heard this so thought I'd post it. I cannot confirm the veracity of this.

The story is that a deal was agreed in principle yesterday for a 1st rounder plus either a 2nd rounder (traded or next year's I guess) or a player for Rockliff.

Comes from a footy journo who belongs to an organization that is a tier below the news limited/Fairfax journos. He wouldn't reveal his source so take it with a grain of salt.

Not at all, he hasn't improved at Collingwood and he wanted more midfield time that we weren't willing to give him. He admitted he left for security and midfield time, not $$$.

Anyway, back to Lyons, how about our 2017 second rounder given it'll probably be better pick's wise than 29.

someone start the damn car!!!! NOW!!!!! ... i'd do that trade in a heartbeat ... rocky for our first and lyons!!! fu!ck yes!!!


CEY instead of lyons?? even better!!!

 

[marty36]

U/18 GF sunday will get to see Sharenberg/ Jarman/Edwards and a couple of other draft hopefuls

 

[feenix67]

U/18 GF sunday will get to see Sharenberg/ Jarman/Edwards and a couple of other draft hopefuls

Edwards not old enough yet, but I reckon he's the best of the three.

 

[Sanders]

If you assume the academy and father sons are going to the clubs they are eligible for anyway, you're still picking 29th in the available pool of players, even if the pick says 35.

If you want to cut it arbitrarily down to available players, then every pick can be re-calibrated to be the #1 pick of the remsining available players

 

[Sanders]

How often do we hear footy insiders talk in regards to trades about the big picture.

Almost always if they've been fleeced in a trade.

Never hear the winners of a deal talk like that

This is a concept which is well known inside footy clubs but most fans are naive to, so they criticise. The Lever pick trade is another that is a accepted concept within clubs and practiced in the US but most fans here can't get their head around, so they criticise.

What effluent toss

 

[mattymac]

Seriously hopeful may be the key words. Who left, in the elite bracket, and more importantly who can we get.
As I said unless we get an Elite mid with 6 years plus. its not worth it.
And I will hate to listen/read the comment in the next 2-3 years on how we could have gotten this bloke or that one.

Also our premiership window is open today and will close in about 3-4 year if we don't bring more than 1 elite type player x 6 year. I would prefer a longer window.

Very presumptuous. It could close this year. See 2009. See 2012. You don't **** with the window. When she opens you do what she demands, when she demands.

 

[Sanders]

Cast off junk? Big men take time and mckenzie has an elite left food. Durdin had an injury played forst season and was tipped to go #6 in his draft year.

Two up an coming platers for a guy that isn't in your best 22.

I think a pick in the mid 30's is good enough. Just like it was when jacobs left port. We got 25 for greenwood and he finished equal 2nd in our B&F in a year we made a prelim. Lyon would be lucky to finish in the top 15 of your b&f this year.

Sweet grandmas spatula

I thought we had some live ones here

 

[Roo Lives Again]

Why? That's about what he's worth.

Isn't that Dangerfield like compo?

 

[Sanders]

Yes.. and no.

Yes, it's a different system. However, there is a very strong correlation between votes in the AFLCA and votes in the B&F. This is not at all surprising - it is, after all, the same people voting in both awards.

No there's not.

Presumably you didn't attempt to show such correlation because you can't

 

[Thewlis Dish]

If you want to cut it arbitrarily down to available players, then every pick can be re-calibrated to be the #1 pick of the remsining available players

The point was you're not pushed down the draft order due to academy selections. You're still going to have the same players available to you at 35 than you would have had at 29.

 

[Sanders]

The point was you're not pushed down the draft order due to academy selections. You're still going to have the same players available to you at 35 than you would have had at 29.

The point is you're wrong and you are pushed down the pecking order for player talent

Access to academy picks isn't a magic wand it's a mechanism to jump up the draft order and take fruit off the tree.