2016 Non-Crows AFL Discussion - Cont. in Part 2 (link in OP)

[Pdub]

What evidence?

Isn't the club telling anyone who will listen how fit the list is with so many PB's

Port seem to be the only club actively pumping up their time trial results, most clubs now chose to sit a little more silent on their pre-seasons

It's for the players, not the fans. Ken has taken it from Blight's playbook, the players don't need to be the fittest in the competition, they just need to believe they are. Ken use to get the times from crow's trials and would selectively pick times to give to his players to give them the illusion they are running better than the entire AFC list. The trips to Dubai were all about that too, there is a basic principle that any gains that can be made in two weeks due to a different environment will be lost when you return to your normal environment in the same amount of time, their fitness staff must know this, but they don't tell the players.

With Blight the players believed what he told them for the first couple years, He told them in the 97,98 prelims and GF's that they were fitter than the opposition so would outrun them, it makes everyone think they must be the only one feeling exhausted so they need to run until they throw up just so they aren't the one who lets down their fitter teammates, it stops them from dropping their shoulders and thinking the game is over when they are a few goals down, it makes them not give up on a chase because they think they can't catch them and should conserve their energy. But the better you get to know someone the easier it is for you to know when they are bullshitting so it doesn't last forever, as we found with Blight and as Port will find with Ken.

Players get better at endurance running as they get older, so most players should post PBs every year for middle distance running unless they are dealing with injuries. I'd imagine 2/3rds of the list posting PBs for a time trial is about average.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Didn't cause our crowds to halve though did they.

Oh i think if we put in the type of performances Port did .....yes it's likely to halve

Crows supporters won't tolerate losing & won't support a losing team ....that said IMO Port supporters didn't like the brand of footy Port were playing as much as they hated losing

 

[Allefgib]

You are in a good place but to suggest you are in a better place than your 2007 year is stupid. You made a GF which is not easy to do. You got flogged because you didnt turn up not because you over achieved. You didnt have the tarps then either and were averaging the same crowds as you do now. Dont mistake your over hyped 2014 year as being better than 2007.

From my memory port massively overachieved that year.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

On another non-Crows topic, it slightly concerns me that the Dusty Martin incident seems to have gone away with no word of punishment. Not a very good message to send. Is there an update to this situation? Are Richmond performing their own investigation now that the police have completed theirs?
But apparently telling someone they have nice eyes while at work is far worse.

Thought Richmond are awaiting AFL to conclude their own investigation?

 

[GameofSloanes]

Precisely. Apart from Charlie Dixon and the draw, what evidence have Port shown that they will magically snap back to better-than-2014 form? They finished ninth, lost to the two bottom sides, and Kern's plan has been found out. He is not fit to polish Alastair Clarkson's boots.

Even Charlie Dixon's impact is debateable, he has talent sure, but will he fit into their gameplan, will he be injured, what impact will he have on other forward line players etc. Ryder looked a good recruit too but if anything had a negative impact last year

 

[GameofSloanes]

We probably have different views about the Gayle one, but I certainly think Dusty should have the book thrown at him. Serious suspension.

I believe that the AFL *is* actually still investigating (I think I heard that somewhere).

Ah well when they conclude their investigation in 3-4 months time then we can look forward to the result Agree re a suspension but as time passes it seems less likely.

Gayle, meh. Not worth disagreeing with people about. Either way.

 

[Bacon8]

Ah well when they conclude their investigation in 3-4 months time then we can look forward to the result Agree re a suspension but as time passes it seems less likely.

Gayle, meh. Not worth disagreeing with people about

If the police said Dusty hasn't done anything wrong, why should there be any more requirement of an investigation?

 

[dogs105]

If the police said Dusty hasn't done anything wrong, why should there be any more requirement of an investigation?

I would imagine police probably said he didn't do anything worthy of a criminal charge.

"Bringing the game into disrepute" should catch a fair bit of it. I think the code of behaviour for players, from the AFL and from the clubs, would be a bit stricter than "don't get charged with a crime".

 

[WaynesWorld19]

If the police said Dusty hasn't done anything wrong, why should there be any more requirement of an investigation?

Because IIRC the lady at the centre of the allegation refused to lay charges ......hence no case for Police

 

[Papa G]

and don't introduce them to my father... A port man from birth, but he strongly disagreed with the way they went behind the commissions back to get an AFL licence (more used by the AFL but still), so when the Crows were formed, they became his team and he has remained loyal to them since. Once the Magpies were made into the AFL team reserve side, his allegiance to Port Adelaide was utterly gone. His SANFL side is the Crows.

Is Geoffa your dad?

 

[NikkiNoo]

Is Geoffa your dad?

Nope

My mum lurks around these parts though.

 

[Red mist]

Dont know, Ive just order the Crows 91 year book, so Ill see in a few days whether thats got anything to add

Ross Oakleys book has some info in it about the situation back then.

 

[The_Wookie]

Ross Oakleys book has some info in it about the situation back then.

Ive read it, and theres only a little bit of specific material suited to the timeline. Same goes for Football Limited.

 

[Elite Crow]

If we wanted proof that Dwayne Russell was a Port stooge you just need to look at his programming as guest presenter on Fox Footy.

They get to pick their favourite games for last 20 years. He chooses 2015 Rd 5 Showdown where Port win in an average game as compared to the showdown we win after Phil's death which is recognised as a classic.

What a tosser.

 

[pjcrows]

If we wanted proof that Dwayne Russell was a Port stooge you just need to look at his programming as guest presenter on Fox Footy.

They get to pick their favourite games for last 20 years. He chooses 2015 Rd 5 Showdown where Port win in an average game as compared to the showdown we win after Phil's death which is recognised as a classic.

What a tosser.

To be fair he has also chosen the second Showdown last year*.



*Still a tosser.

 

[Janus]

It's for the players, not the fans. Ken has taken it from Blight's playbook, the players don't need to be the fittest in the competition, they just need to believe they are. Ken use to get the times from crow's trials and would selectively pick times to give to his players to give them the illusion they are running better than the entire AFC list. The trips to Dubai were all about that too, there is a basic principle that any gains that can be made in two weeks due to a different environment will be lost when you return to your normal environment in the same amount of time, their fitness staff must know this, but they don't tell the players.

With Blight the players believed what he told them for the first couple years, He told them in the 97,98 prelims and GF's that they were fitter than the opposition so would outrun them, it makes everyone think they must be the only one feeling exhausted so they need to run until they throw up just so they aren't the one who lets down their fitter teammates, it stops them from dropping their shoulders and thinking the game is over when they are a few goals down, it makes them not give up on a chase because they think they can't catch them and should conserve their energy. But the better you get to know someone the easier it is for you to know when they are bullshitting so it doesn't last forever, as we found with Blight and as Port will find with Ken.

Players get better at endurance running as they get older, so most players should post PBs every year for middle distance running unless they are dealing with injuries. I'd imagine 2/3rds of the list posting PBs for a time trial is about average.

This is true, but it's also to get inside the heads of players and staff at other clubs. If the worst player at Port Adelaide - including rucks and key position players - is running under 12 minutes or less than 4 minutes per KM, we want to tell everyone that so when their ruck/KPP is running times higher than that (guys like Sandilands, Goldstein etc would be targets) they'll try to get their aerobic capacity up to compete and neglect their strength and conditioning work.

Matthew Lobbe, at 2m and 98kg, ran 11 minutes flat. That's not psychosomatic - that's 66.7% of the performance of the fastest 26 year old male over 3km in the world. To put it another way - if you said the average distance an AFL player ran during a match was 15km, Lobbe could run that non-stop and be done in an hour and 57 seconds.

With decreased rotations, fitness becomes an even bigger key to success. That's why you got someone like Burton in to oversee your training - athletic fitness over strength and conditioning. Of course, we've already focused on athletic fitness for the past three years, so we're going to be working on strength to add to our fitness base now because the players have the cardiovascular performance necessary to fuel the increased muscle mass.

 

[Jello_B]

From my memory port massively overachieved that year.

Yes I think so too, from memory there wasn't really any outstanding teams other than Geelong that year. And they were great.
I know Hawks have statistically taken over Geelongs recent premiership count, but watching Geelong at full flight and the way they played was cracking. You only need to look at the Cats / Hawks 2008 GF when Hawks were running through behinds to understand the fear that the Cats managed to create in an opposition.

 

[Paladin]

This is true, but it's also to get inside the heads of players and staff at other clubs. If the worst player at Port Adelaide - including rucks and key position players - is running under 12 minutes or less than 4 minutes per KM, we want to tell everyone that so when their ruck/KPP is running times higher than that (guys like Sandilands, Goldstein etc would be targets) they'll try to get their aerobic capacity up to compete and neglect their strength and conditioning work.

Matthew Lobbe, at 2m and 98kg, ran 11 minutes flat. That's not psychosomatic - that's 66.7% of the performance of the fastest 26 year old male over 3km in the world. To put it another way - if you said the average distance an AFL player ran during a match was 15km, Lobbe could run that non-stop and be done in an hour and 57 seconds.

With decreased rotations, fitness becomes an even bigger key to success. That's why you got someone like Burton in to oversee your training - athletic fitness over strength and conditioning. Of course, we've already focused on athletic fitness for the past three years, so we're going to be working on strength to add to our fitness base now because the players have the cardiovascular performance necessary to fuel the increased muscle mass.

Why were you so poorly performed in second halves in 2015 then? Other clubs and Port players aren't buying what Burgo/Ken are selling anymore. Port are a fit club but its no longer an advantage over other fit clubs.

 

[Geoffa32]

It's for the players, not the fans. Ken has taken it from Blight's playbook, the players don't need to be the fittest in the competition, they just need to believe they are. Ken use to get the times from crow's trials and would selectively pick times to give to his players to give them the illusion they are running better than the entire AFC list. The trips to Dubai were all about that too, there is a basic principle that any gains that can be made in two weeks due to a different environment will be lost when you return to your normal environment in the same amount of time, their fitness staff must know this, but they don't tell the players.

With Blight the players believed what he told them for the first couple years, He told them in the 97,98 prelims and GF's that they were fitter than the opposition so would outrun them, it makes everyone think they must be the only one feeling exhausted so they need to run until they throw up just so they aren't the one who lets down their fitter teammates, it stops them from dropping their shoulders and thinking the game is over when they are a few goals down, it makes them not give up on a chase because they think they can't catch them and should conserve their energy. But the better you get to know someone the easier it is for you to know when they are bullshitting so it doesn't last forever, as we found with Blight and as Port will find with Ken.

Players get better at endurance running as they get older, so most players should post PBs every year for middle distance running unless they are dealing with injuries. I'd imagine 2/3rds of the list posting PBs for a time trial is about average.

Could see from watching The Recruit this was Burgess's philosophy. Do the work on the track, take the player above where they believe can reach, once they get there instill in them they can do that every time they hit the track/play.

Was a great episode highlighting this when Burgess "broke" Johann Wagner, then told him that was the standard he should reach every session.

Players do not have to actually be fitter than the opposition, they just need to know they can go past the limit where the brain says to stop.




BTW, Neil Craig did the exact same thing with our guys back in 97/98 and it was a big part of his preseasons as Head Coach. Burgess didnt invent this.

 

[Geoffa32]

Why were you so poorly performed in second halves in 2015 then? Other clubs and Port players aren't buying what Burgo/Ken are selling anymore. Port are a fit club but its no longer an advantage over other fit clubs.

Leigh Matthews said on AA that any club that gains an advantage loses it after two seasons. This is because players and staff change clubs and knowledge transfers and moves across the industry. Happened to the Lions when he was coach, happened to us when Craigy brought in his standards and it happened to Port when Burgess brought to Port another level of Fitness.

 

[Paladin]

Leigh Matthews said on AA that any club that gains an advantage loses it after two seasons. This is because players and staff change clubs and knowledge transfers and moves across the industry. Happened to the Lions when he was coach, happened to us when Craigy brought in his standards and it happened to Port when Burgess brought to Port another level of Fitness.

Looks like Ken might have to come up with a plan B Maybe crazy Vossy can help out.

 

[Geoffa32]

Looks like Ken might have to come up with a plan B Maybe crazy Vossy can help out.

Nathan Bassett will hold his hand this year, and untill he gets a head role.


Vossy, great player, great speaker, but shit coach.

 

[Janus]

Why were you so poorly performed in second halves in 2015 then? Other clubs and Port players aren't buying what Burgo/Ken are selling anymore. Port are a fit club but its no longer an advantage over other fit clubs.

You'll see first hand this year with your club. When your players look like they are running through treacle after playing North, Port, Richmond, Sydney, Hawthorn, Fremantle, Footscray and Geelong. I don't care how fit you are, when you have a block of games like that at the start of the season it has a huge effect on recovery because the mental effort required to keep fronting up for big games taxes the body as well. Add to that four weeks less preseason and there's your reason.

Each one of those eight teams will smash into your players because they all have aspirations for finals, and every time they do the bruises from the week before get deeper and deeper. Then you've got to worry about going up to Gold Coast to play the Suns, who would analyze the effort your players put in each game and might believe that this is their chance to exact some revenge for the pastings you've given them in the past.

You mistakenly believe that Burgess is some sort of snake oil salesman when the man has a PhD and is creating the curriculum for a masters in high-performance in sport at UniSA. He has people from all over the world - from clubs like Manchester City - to learn about how to prepare players. He doesn't need other clubs to 'buy' what he is selling. We had a poor year, and maybe we overcooked our players, but let's see if you're whistling the same tune at the end of this year. I have a feeling you won't be.

 

[Paladin]

You'll see first hand this year with your club. When your players look like they are running through treacle after playing North, Port, Richmond, Sydney, Hawthorn, Fremantle, Footscray and Geelong. I don't care how fit you are, when you have a block of games like that at the start of the season it has a huge effect on recovery because the mental effort required to keep fronting up for big games taxes the body as well. Add to that four weeks less preseason and there's your reason.

Each one of those eight teams will smash into your players because they all have aspirations for finals, and every time they do the bruises from the week before get deeper and deeper. Then you've got to worry about going up to Gold Coast to play the Suns, who would analyze the effort your players put in each game and might believe that this is their chance to exact some revenge for the pastings you've given them in the past.

You mistakenly believe that Burgess is some sort of snake oil salesman when the man has a PhD and is creating the curriculum for a masters in high-performance in sport at UniSA. He has people from all over the world - from clubs like Manchester City - to learn about how to prepare players. He doesn't need other clubs to 'buy' what he is selling. We had a poor year, and maybe we overcooked our players, but let's see if you're whistling the same tune at the end of this year. I have a feeling you won't be.

Your the one that mentioned it had an effect on other clubs you don't have to tell me they are no longer bluffed.

I get the feeling our guys are kinda tough and full of heart. Don't think we will be rolling over to the bottom 2 sides after a few big games like Port in 2015.

 

[Bicks]

You'll see first hand this year with your club. When your players look like they are running through treacle after playing North, Port, Richmond, Sydney, Hawthorn, Fremantle, Footscray and Geelong. I don't care how fit you are, when you have a block of games like that at the start of the season it has a huge effect on recovery because the mental effort required to keep fronting up for big games taxes the body as well. Add to that four weeks less preseason and there's your reason.

Each one of those eight teams will smash into your players because they all have aspirations for finals, and every time they do the bruises from the week before get deeper and deeper. Then you've got to worry about going up to Gold Coast to play the Suns, who would analyze the effort your players put in each game and might believe that this is their chance to exact some revenge for the pastings you've given them in the past.

You mistakenly believe that Burgess is some sort of snake oil salesman when the man has a PhD and is creating the curriculum for a masters in high-performance in sport at UniSA. He has people from all over the world - from clubs like Manchester City - to learn about how to prepare players. He doesn't need other clubs to 'buy' what he is selling. We had a poor year, and maybe we overcooked our players, but let's see if you're whistling the same tune at the end of this year. I have a feeling you won't be.

All based on nothing other than your Powa bias......

Go tell someone that gives a flying ....