List Mgmt. 2017 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Turbocat]

Thank you for the kind offer, but we'll pass.



If you're after points this year rather than next, it'll be a bit more difficult.

I suspect a lot may depend on what happens with Gibbs (Adelaide) and Kreuzer (FA).

If those two move on then we may have the 2017 currency to get a deal done. Wouldn't completely surprise if we traded our 2018 first to get more involved in the early stages of the 2017 draft either.



3 x 1st rounders is a very high price to pay for 2 x OOC players with a collective 20 odd games under their belts.

But I do acknowledge both are very highly rated young players so it'll cost a fair bit.

Will Gibbs will be worth less this year , how much would the Crows pay I wonder when he is FA in 12 months? A lot depends on the finish to the year.

3 R1's... well id say there is a huge difference between P1 and P18... Id frame it like .. It would take 3000 points for both of them for eg. Although there is a chance with Vic teams finishing bottom that it may change it a bit. History says Blues and Giants work something out

 

[Jeremias]

Will Gibbs will be worth less this year , how much would the Crows pay I wonder when he is FA in 12 months? A lot depends on the finish to the year.

Gibbs is contracted through 2019, so it's 24 months rather than 12.

I expect Adelaide to come knocking again, especially if they don't win the flag this year.

3 R1's... well id say there is a huge difference between P1 and P18... Id frame it like .. It would take 3000 points for both of them for eg. Although there is a chance with Vic teams finishing bottom that it may change it a bit.

That's more like it, thanks.

I reckon we may have 3-4 picks inside 20 to work with this year. Will be interesting to see what happens.

History says Blues and Giants work something out

Indeed, but there will obviously be plenty of interest coming from elsewhere.

 

[Bokonon_]

Gibbs is contracted through 2019, so it's 24 months rather than 12.

I expect Adelaide to come knocking again, especially if they don't win the flag this year.



That's more like it, thanks.

I reckon we may have 3-4 picks inside 20 to work with this year. Will be interesting to see what happens.



Indeed, but there will obviously be plenty of interest coming from elsewhere..

I think we've traded to our mutual benefit in past and that's the best indicator we will again. Lot of variables this year though. If we dig deep and keep Kelly for example our position in trade week will be very different to if he takes the reported North offer. Both in terms of picks in hand and cap space.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Did I say that?

Yeah, you pretty much did. You came on here and claimed that someone who's reputation you trusted, who was supposedly "in the know", had said Carlton were into Hopper and Kennedy and then you added you're own (delusional) suggestions for a number of trade scenarios that might make it happen.

Funnily enough, one of them involved moving on the likes of Palmer, Sumner and Lamb to create the space for them - which, if I recall correctly, is basically what we did already. You can't just keep copying us, at some point you have to grow up, stand on your own two feet and make your own way in the world.

 

[Jeremias]

I think we've traded to our mutual benefit in past and that's the best indicator we will again. Lot of variables this year though. If we dig deep and keep Kelly for example our position in trade week will be very different to if he takes the reported North offer. Both in terms of picks in hand and cap space.

Yep. Kelly is the big variable here for sure.

I hope he stays, but if the reports are true then IMO he'd be crazy to not take the deal from North Melbourne.

Yeah, you pretty much did. You came on here and claimed that someone who's reputation you trusted, who was supposedly "in the know", had said Carlton were into Hopper and Kennedy and then you added you're own (delusional) suggestions for a number of trade scenarios that might make it happen.

I never said we were going to get them. I said we were interested in them, which can't be overly surprising to you.

Both are very good young players, and both are out of contract. Carlton won't be the only club keeping an eye on them.

I don't recall putting forward any specific trade scenarios, let alone 'delusional' ones. All I've said is we may look to move Gibbs, Kreuzer and our 2018 first round pick on - is that 'delusional'?

Funnily enough, one of them involved moving on the likes of Palmer, Sumner and Lamb to create the space for them - which, if I recall correctly, is basically what we did already. You can't just keep copying us, at some point you have to grow up, stand on your own two feet and make your own way in the world.

OK, so that clears things up - you've clearly misread what I wrote.

No trade suggestion I've put forward involved any of the players you've mentioned here.

Take a breath, read it again and relax.

 

[Turbocat]

Gibbs is contracted through 2019, so it's 24 months rather than 12.

I expect Adelaide to come knocking again, especially if they don't win the flag this year.



That's more like it, thanks.

I reckon we may have 3-4 picks inside 20 to work with this year. Will be interesting to see what happens.



Indeed, but there will obviously be plenty of interest coming from elsewhere.

Yes did not realise two years... if the Crows are in the zone as they appear then they may well close the fist and knock again. R1 not for mine but who knows..what did GWS give for Deludio seems similar.
The 3000 points is just arbitrary as that equate to 1... up to GWS setup what they want of course , an earlier poster quoted no need for points because of Academy rule changes, so that complicates it for you. Id guess that GWS will start to get a bit tired of their young picks getting knocked off without having access to that academy talent.

 

[Bokonon_]

Yes did not realise two years... if the Crows are in the zone as they appear then they may well close the fist and knock again. R1 not for mine but who knows..what did GWS give for Deludio seems similar.
The 3000 points is just arbitrary as that equate to 1... up to GWS setup what they want of course , an earlier poster quoted no need for points because of Academy rule changes, so that complicates it for you. Id guess that GWS will start to get a bit tired of their young picks getting knocked off without having access to that academy talent.

"Getting tired of their young picks getting picked off" is absurd.

 

[Bokonon_]

Yep. Kelly is the big variable here for sure.

I hope he stays, but if the reports are true then IMO he'd be crazy to not take the deal from North Melbourne.



I never said we were going to get them. I said we were interested in them, which can't be overly surprising to you.

Both are very good young players, and both are out of contract. Carlton won't be the only club keeping an eye on them.

I don't recall putting forward any specific trade scenarios, let alone 'delusional' ones. All I've said is we may look to move Gibbs, Kreuzer and our 2018 first round pick on - is that 'delusional'?



OK, so that clears things up - you've clearly misread what I wrote.

No trade suggestion I've put forward involved any of the players you've mentioned here.

Take a breath, read it again and relax.

I hope he does too, but will wish him well without resentment if he goes. In practice I think we wont and cant match the offer but probably need to get closer than we'd planned to keep him. There'll be a point when we'd have to go to North for a trade though.
Bit but not exactly like Treloar we have to be able to look Shiel and Williams in the eye, who didn't entertain offers, aside from the cap space actually being there.

 

[Turbocat]

"Getting tired of their young picks getting picked off" is absurd.

OK sorry ..you are not tried of having your young players being targeted.

 

[Bokonon_]

OK sorry ..you are not tried of having your young players being targeted.

Not what I meant. I'm not tired of having them targeted, it's the reality of a professional competition. It's also a complimemt to the payers and indirectly the club's list management and recruiting.
We.dont have a perfect retention record, but it's pretty good is where I was coming from. If I misunderstood your post I apologise.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

Hopefully we do lock away these guys very soon

The Giants are hopeful of locking away two more of their young stars in the near future as in-demand midfielder Josh Kelly weighs up a multimillion-dollar decision to join North Melbourne. GWS have put offers to goal sneak Devon Smith and midfielder Jacob Hopper, and expect both to join Dylan Shiel, Zac Williams, Adam Tomlinson and Jonathon Patton in committing their future to the club.

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/greater-w...r-next-resigning-targets-20170418-gvmvfa.html

 

[Colonial]

Hopefully we do lock away these guys very soon

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/greater-w...r-next-resigning-targets-20170418-gvmvfa.html

Fingers crossed.

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[Orange Agent]

Maybe a bit harsh there.

There are plenty of posters claiming to be ITK who are anything but. However there are a few here and there who clearly know what's going on - we're lucky enough to have 1 or 2 on the Carlton board who have a very strong track record.

Anyway, I don't think I was "rehashing crap". I didn't think my initial post was out of line but each to their own I guess.

Claimed that Tommo to carlton was a done deal. Said that Adam Kennedy was going to be part of last years trade, this is laughable. Also said Corr was one of them, McKenna was named but ended up at Melb for next to nothing. I hope he doesnt play darts in public places.

 

[Turbocat]

Not what I meant. I'm not tired of having them targeted, it's the reality of a professional competition. It's also a complimemt to the payers and indirectly the club's list management and recruiting.
We.dont have a perfect retention record, but it's pretty good is where I was coming from. If I misunderstood your post I apologise.

Perhaps I should have been a littler clearer ... no probs.

 

[Colonial]

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[Giant Pete]

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If they have half a brain they would be going for finlayson or himmelberg. Knowing them though they're probably going for Hopper or Kennedy: 'coz they need more mids'.

 

[Colonial]

Supposedly its Devon they are after.

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[Giant Strides]

It would be great to end the speculation really early in the season ... and kill off some of these threads!

 

[F_therest]

Talk from some Hawthorn supporters on the main board that they are into Whitfield big time at the end of the year. Given their lack of draft picks this year (St.Kilda & Suns say thanks) not sure how they reckon it will get done. Suggesting he's worth a late first or early second. I would have thought for GWS to entertain Whitfield going it would have to be a top 10 pick or are you guys under so much cap stress that you could offload him cheaper?

TBH Whitfield hasn't quite lived up to his draft position and from what i've seen, doesn't look like he'll ever be that really inspirational, dominating mid that you pay top dollar for.

He's just a silky smooth, smart player with good skills that is a nice 'piece of the puzzle' of a good midfield, but not a dominant one.
I could be wrong on this but doesn't seem to particularly like the tough side of the game.

Despite his original draft position, i reckon a pick in the mid teens would do it IF he wanted out. GWS can cover him pretty easily right now with him banned and they have Setterfield coming through...don't think he'd be that big a loss.

 

[F_therest]

This 'in the know' carlton poster sure gets a lot of stuff wrong for some internet person who is held in such regard that people will just re-hash their crap over every board on the site.

What has he gotten wrong? I don't think you actually know who Jeremias is talking about.
The poster he is referring to has got every tidbit right since he started posting...from trade targets, draft targets, who will debut each week etc.

And i understand we all get touchy about talk of players leaving, but he never said 'Hopper & Kennedy will be at Carlton next year'...the 'inside knowledge' was just that we are very keen and going hard at getting them...doesn't mean it will happen.

 

[F_therest]

In 2018, I'd be surprised if Hopper wasn't an automatic Best 22. If Smith leaves then Kennedy's future is much brighter.

You'll get one, maybe, but not both.

And can we program the post that you're looking at Taranto, Setterfield and Perryman for April 2018?

imagine how good our NEAFL side would have been with Cripps and Weitering!

Devon Smith was the third GWS player mentioned that we are interested in...again no surprise there as he along with Hopper & Kennedy are the young guns out of contract.

Since so many clubs will be after them and some may stay with you, it's likely we'd only get 1 of the 3, if any.

Of course Carlton fans are fantasising about a package deal for all 3 or 2 of them...if anything probably end up something like our 2018 1st pick for Hopper, or the pick we get for Gibbs on traded for Kennedy etc.

 

[F_therest]

I hope he does too, but will wish him well without resentment if he goes. In practice I think we wont and cant match the offer but probably need to get closer than we'd planned to keep him. There'll be a point when we'd have to go to North for a trade though.
Bit but not exactly like Treloar we have to be able to look Shiel and Williams in the eye, who didn't entertain offers, aside from the cap space actually being there.

Couldn't blame a young man for taking that kind of crazy money and security North are offering.

I'm sure he'd rather stay, but it probably becomes a question of how much less is he willing to stay at GWS for and what are GWS willing to pay?
Will be interesting...with GWS firmly in 'win a premiership' mode they won't want to lose a player like Kelly...whereas arguably Treloar was more expendable given it was earlier and to spread the list age profile more.

But then again, you have so many stars to pay for in the cap and you can replace him with the likes of Setterfield, Hopper, Kennedy & Whitfield.
Your midfield is so strong even though right now you don't have Griffen, Whitfield & Coniglio...plus Setterfield waiting in the wings.

You'd also presumably be able to squeeze a lot out of North in terms of trading...like 2 x 1st picks to keep replenishing your list again and again.

 

[F_therest]

Claimed that Tommo to carlton was a done deal. Said that Adam Kennedy was going to be part of last years trade, this is laughable. Also said Corr was one of them, McKenna was named but ended up at Melb for next to nothing. I hope he doesnt play darts in public places.

Very selective picking there.

We were fortunate to have someone giving us constant updates on the trades being discussed.

You do realise trade week is the most volatile with so many moving parts and variables, and things changing constantly.
For every trade that gets done, there were probably at least 5 variables of it before the clubs finally agreed on it.

There were many posters, including non Carlton ones, saying Tomlinson to Carlton was a 'done deal' in early 2016...obviously he changed his mind once he started being best 22 and getting a game every week halfway through the year which happens.

Just because A Kennedy and Corr didn't end up at Carlton, doesn't mean there wasn't serious discussions about them between our recruiting team and yours...which is all the poster said. He never said 'done deal'.

 

[dlanod]

Very selective picking there.

We were fortunate to have someone giving us constant updates on the trades being discussed.

You do realise trade week is the most volatile with so many moving parts and variables, and things changing constantly.
For every trade that gets done, there were probably at least 5 variables of it before the clubs finally agreed on it.

There were many posters, including non Carlton ones, saying Tomlinson to Carlton was a 'done deal' in early 2016...obviously he changed his mind once he started being best 22 and getting a game every week halfway through the year which happens.

Just because A Kennedy and Corr didn't end up at Carlton, doesn't mean there wasn't serious discussions about them between our recruiting team and yours...which is all the poster said. He never said 'done deal'.

I'm sure you like whoever this mystery dude is but anyone can be clairvoyant if you're willing to toss out anything they get wrong like you just did, or if they're just couching everything in caveats like Barrett or Denham or Rucci.

 

[Orange Agent]

Very selective picking there.

We were fortunate to have someone giving us constant updates on the trades being discussed.

You do realise trade week is the most volatile with so many moving parts and variables, and things changing constantly.
For every trade that gets done, there were probably at least 5 variables of it before the clubs finally agreed on it.

There were many posters, including non Carlton ones, saying Tomlinson to Carlton was a 'done deal' in early 2016...obviously he changed his mind once he started being best 22 and getting a game every week halfway through the year which happens.

Just because A Kennedy and Corr didn't end up at Carlton, doesn't mean there wasn't serious discussions about them between our recruiting team and yours...which is all the poster said. He never said 'done deal'.

Very selective picking there suggesting Tommo changed his mind, are you Adam? Id be staggered if Adam Kennedy entertained any thought on leaving. Go through the guys posting, there is plenty of wrong info there but keep on bleating about some unknown on the internet releasing inside club info on trade week to bigfooty.