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Mr Magic

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 1, 2010
17,813
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Well, Keeffe is clearly not best 22 - well, at least I don't believe so - the best KPDs are Davis, Taylor & Haynes providing we don't decide to play 4 including Keeffe!

But he is the first KPD off the bench when anyone's injured, until we can develop a better backup. I'm on record as not being keen on him, but I will admit he's been solid enough this year when used. You can't have a star player sitting on the bench, apart from a young developing KPD, and he's been fine in that role in my view. Buntine is too small, old and limited now to be first or second KPD IMHO. Maybe Stein IMHO, although I'm not convinced. Not Idun IMHO, too small for the No 1 or 2 KPD jobs.
I think a lot is still up in the air for the Giants in terms of roles including the superstars.

Heres a few.

What is Cameron's best role?

What is Greene's best role?

What is Williams best role?

What is Taranto's best role?

What is Riccardi's best role?

What is Coniglio's best role?

What is Whitfields best role?

What is Davis's best role?

What is Himmelberg's best role?

Do you have players that play a role depending on opposition match ups?? Do you have effective swingman on certain matchups?

Then you have youngsters to find their best roles and ways to contribute?

Some of the players to me are effective individually but possibly counter productive in terms of team cohesion and effectiveness especially regarding development and overall team out put.

When I am stated roles I am stated roles in the context of the team members playing with them on the day as well as the make up of your opposition on the day. I also am talking about roles in the sense sometimes Greene is in the guts, sometimes he is up forward etc..

I look at GWS and I know a lot of high draft picks were recruited. I think a lot of recruits have been stereotyped into certain positions and made to play certain roles and a set play has developed. Not enough insight into the strengths and weaknesses of each player individually have been made to empower them to adapt to forge their own roles within the context of an evolved GWS way that suits the strengths and weaknesses of the players the team has. Too many players are playing in a way based on when they were drafted to me. Part of that is because GWS is a new team and never had a forged team to start with such as how their team operated and so the youngsters where not really shaped when drafted compared to a already refined team. I am not blaming anyone, its just an observation and I think GWS now has the opportunity to shape the teams own identity based on the players that make up your list now and into the future rather than past exploits in different set-ups from different teams including pre-draft
 
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toxic

Hall of Famer
May 9, 2008
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He is not that bad, not elite but can be useful I think. He could be a lower rung player in a premiership team with the right role and support around him.

You cannot afford superstars in every position, no club can!
Keefe won't win you a grand final but he won't cost you one either.
 
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Mr Magic

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 1, 2010
17,813
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AFL Club
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Keele won't win you a grand final but he won't cost you one either.
I am watching the replay and GWS midfield is not really a problem. Their defence and to a lessor extent forwards are.

Keefe to me was not the problem either. GWS defence needs to be rebuilt I think, Haynes stays of course but Melbourne should never have kicked the score they did.

GWS should have won that game against Melbourne comfortably even without Coniglio looking at the replay if they were less reckless from the back half and had better systems and personnel in place.

I have stated this before and I think it needs to be mentioned again. I am not a fan of Whitfield and Williams kicking out from deep back which is why I think a someone like Hayden Young should have been chased. GWS could do with a proper genuine defender doing the kick outs with precision and length to bring balance and cohesion to the side

Frankly I think Whitfield needs to build his game around being a winger, not a defender and Williams belongs in the midfield and GWS need more defenders who can defend with scope and ability with speed and reach and mass.

GWS could do with a medium forward to but next week I would bring in Riccardi and Coniglio. I would keep it simple. Riccardi and Cameron can both start deep. Cameron can lead to the left side as a left footer, Riccardi the other side and break up opposition defences that way. I would put Coniglio at half forward to help forward connection and go from there. I am happy enough with the guts of GWS.

The GWS loss to Melbourne might be a little like Geelong's loss to Sydney in 2006 although Geelong where a better team. Still think GWS are not far away.

Obviously GWS need a ruckman to
 
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GWS Goose

Premiership Player
Nov 14, 2011
3,153
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I am watching the replay and GWS midfield is not really a problem. Their defence and to a lessor extent forwards are.

Keefe to me was not the problem either. GWS defence needs to be rebuilt I think, Haynes stays of course but Melbourne should never have kicked the score they did.

GWS should have won that game against Melbourne comfortably even without Coniglio looking at the replay if they were less reckless from the back half and had better systems and personnel in place.

I have stated this before and I think it needs to be mentioned again. I am not a fan of Whitfield and Williams kicking out from deep back which is why I think a someone like Hayden Young should have been chased. GWS could do with a proper genuine defender doing the kick outs with precision and length to bring balance and cohesion to the side

Frankly I think Whitfield needs to build his game around being a winger, not a defender and Williams belongs in the midfield and GWS need more defenders who can defend with scope and ability with speed and reach and mass.

GWS could do with a medium forward to but next week I would bring in Riccardi and Coniglio. I would keep it simple. Riccardi and Cameron can both start deep. Cameron can lead to the left side as a left footer, Riccardi the other side and break up opposition defences that way. I would put Coniglio at half forward to help forward connection and go from there. I am happy enough with the guts of GWS.

The GWS loss to Melbourne might be a little like Geelong's loss to Sydney in 2006 although Geelong where a better team. Still think GWS are not far away.

Obviously GWS need a ruckman to
The top 3 defenders were out on the weekend. That obviously hurt.
Now Corr is gone, we will need someone from the next tier to stand up now.
Ideally Idun, Buckley or Stein will be the standard next year.
 

Mr Magic

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Mar 1, 2010
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The top 3 defenders were out on the weekend. That obviously hurt.
Now Corr is gone, we will need someone from the next tier to stand up now.
Ideally Idun, Buckley or Stein will be the standard next year.
Why was Aish not playing on the likes of Pickett or Spargo? Injured?
 

PMBangers

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Nov 7, 2017
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Well could have use Riccardi in particular on the weekend especially in regard to forward presence and providing the midfield and others a forward target/option
Yes Riccardi would've helped fix our delivery inside 50, slow transition from defense and lessened May's and Lever's impact
 

Mr Magic

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 1, 2010
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Yes Riccardi would've helped fix our delivery inside 50, slow transition from defense and lessened May's and Lever's impact
I think you are overrating some of your forwards.

Some do not seem to want to put enough effort in

I am curious to see what happens end of season to be honest in terms of motivations

Daniels was very good against Melbourne, he has a crack!!

For a little guy he has a big heart!!

Maybe if some of the mids replace some of your forwards the problem gets fixed partially?
 

bossman111

Senior List
Feb 18, 2008
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Most interesting off season of our history here. The entire coaching staff under Leon replaced, anticipate at least some attempt at a change in game style. Also good on McCartney I reckon, need to put a line in the sand and stop the players / managers holding the list manager by the b*lls. Time for us to grow up as a footy club
 

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PMBangers

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Nov 7, 2017
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I think you are overrating some of your forwards.

Some do not seem to want to put enough effort in
Our forward line has its issues, but it's the last piece of the puzzle, no point trying to fix it when our back line and midfield are below par at the moment, Riccardi is gonna be good and makes our forward line look better, but him playing or not against the Dees doesn't change the result
 

Mr Magic

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Mar 1, 2010
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Our forward line has its issues, but it's the last piece of the puzzle, no point trying to fix it when our back line and midfield are below par at the moment, Riccardi is gonna be good and makes our forward line look better, but him playing or not against the Dees doesn't change the result
Wants wrong with the midfield? I thought they went quite well even without Coniglio.
 

PMBangers

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Nov 7, 2017
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Wants wrong with the midfield? I thought they went quite well even without Coniglio.
Our midfield is so inept at working in transition it's not funny, that's in both directions as well. Too many time this year have we been held up from a fast counter attack due to our mids being out of position or not working hard enough to be an option. It was painfully obvious against the Dees (and blues from memory, but we ended up winning that so I've half let it go), ball in our defensive 50, we win it and have to either a) slow play chip around so the mids can get into position or b) hack kick down the line to Lever/ May because our mids were stuck between the centre circle and the defensive 50 mark
On the rare occasion we are linking well through the midfield, our only hope of hitting a leading forward reasonably is when the kicker isn't under pressure, or is Jelly. We're also painfully slow with Perryman, Taranto, Hopper and Green, even when Whitfield rolls through he's not the fastest, he's just got that Pendlebury/ McCluggage composure
 

fridgeman

Club Legend
Jan 26, 2014
2,382
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I wanted to use a few more harsher words for the Clubs season but I will tone it down for here but a very disappointing season for the club and testing for everyone involved and all clubs go through ups and downs and it will be a test of all involved including supporters to stick with the club and respect the players for what they haver done although some more than others
Apologies if this turns into a TL;DR but my thoughts
I think the effort on Friday night will say a lot about the club and those involved so hopefully a comfortable win but as we have seen this year with some of the losses and wins we dont know which team will turn up, clearly the team has enough talent to win but it is about applying that and also the coaching staff motivating the players and with Miller and Hayes leaving it will be that much harder and I wish that had been kept until the end of the season but i think with the late ending and how contracts work it needed to be announced and I was surprised with the Corr announcement but maybe it was about sending a message to the playing group about commitment
Not sure of the players on the list who has had a good season apart from Haynes and Perryman I feel everyone else has either stagnated or regressed due to a variety of reasons, injury, form, travel, managing players so i will say that a rest over the off season and looking to come back re invigorated for season 2021
Corr leaving does create an issue with key defenders and also highlights the loss of players over the last few years with the 100 game experience and the hole it creates with the depth on the list
I agree that this off season could be a mini reset for the club and the contracts situation for the club has been very hard previoulsy and with the delay with the cap and list for next season still in the air I am not sure how clubs are re-signing players but hopefully that is announced after the final round or even sooner
I am not worried about Cameron re-signing as he is a key part of the club and is invested in it and I can see Williams and Perryman re-signing and then it comes down to the 3 2nd year players who will have larger contracts with other clubs on offer so i could see all 3 leaving in Caldwell, O'Halloran and Hately which I see as the sacrifice to keep the 3 more experienced players which I think is the right call
the one I am unsure about is Kelly as he could be turned by a larger contract from a Melbourne club and that would set the club back but it could mean 1 or 2 of the 2nd year players stay

My thoughts on list sizes for 2021 is that it will stay at 38 but the rookie list will be reduced to only 2-4 players but with the pre (SSP) + mid season drafts being broader in scope somehow for clubs to cover for injuries
I also think the 2nd tier league with the combined VFL/NEAFL will be a positive for the development of the academy players and those that are developing

The ruck situation has been a yearly discussion since the clubs beginnings and Briggs and Flynn are the future and Jacobs has shown he is past it and i am not sure anything he does over the off season will see him improve so looking for a ruck again and I can see any 2nd ruck being put up as a option but they need to be experienced and not a dinosaur imo

More to follow
 

Mr Magic

Brownlow Medallist
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Yeah we were able to pick out the Demons defenders with ease when kicking into our fwd 50.
I thought a bigger problem was not hitting targets from deep kick outs.

Hard not to hit a defender when no forwards to present a viable option. Daniels gets a pass because he done enough at ground level and can crumb the bigger forwards when they show up

There should be a number of ways from defence as the ground opens up but the Giants can't seem to get it flowing and rely on Whitfield to be precise or Williams taking chances.

I thing the trouble is some of your backs are just too limited in the modern game
 

GWS Goose

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Nov 14, 2011
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Our midfield is so inept at working in transition it's not funny, that's in both directions as well. Too many time this year have we been held up from a fast counter attack due to our mids being out of position or not working hard enough to be an option. It was painfully obvious against the Dees (and blues from memory, but we ended up winning that so I've half let it go), ball in our defensive 50, we win it and have to either a) slow play chip around so the mids can get into position or b) hack kick down the line to Lever/ May because our mids were stuck between the centre circle and the defensive 50 mark
On the rare occasion we are linking well through the midfield, our only hope of hitting a leading forward reasonably is when the kicker isn't under pressure, or is Jelly. We're also painfully slow with Perryman, Taranto, Hopper and Green, even when Whitfield rolls through he's not the fastest, he's just got that Pendlebury/ McCluggage composure
I actually reckon our bigger issue is the back 6 getting it to the midfield. when they get that first kick reasonable, we go well.

Keefe, Haynes and Kennedy a limited (Keefe and Haynes are fairly adept at playing to their limitations)

Corr takes bad options, I think generally going for too much and Shaw's body can no longer match his mind, understandable, father time is undefeated. They turn it over all the time.
Ash is a gun, but is a first year player who makes first year mistakes.

I started a whole thread on this, I reckon our issue starts right at the beginning of the transition. It gets down there, we defend it well, but we keep giving it back and eventually the wall breaks.
 

PMBangers

Spec Moderator
Nov 7, 2017
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I actually reckon our bigger issue is the back 6 getting it to the midfield. when they get that first kick reasonable, we go well.

Keefe, Haynes and Kennedy a limited (Keefe and Haynes are fairly adept at playing to their limitations)

Corr takes bad options, I think generally going for too much and Shaw's body can no longer match his mind, understandable, father time is undefeated. They turn it over all the time.
Ash is a gun, but is a first year player who makes first year mistakes.

I started a whole thread on this, I reckon our issue starts right at the beginning of the transition. It gets down there, we defend it well, but we keep giving it back and eventually the wall breaks.
I started the year agreeing with that, but the more I watch and specifically pay attention I can't take the blame off the mids, it's telling that we have Whitfield down there and even he can't pick out an option some times. It's a difficult problem because you could argue either way, I just hope our new coaches can bring something fresh. I look at the way Pies or Port play the ball from their backline, and think that's the standard we need to be hitting
 

General Giant

Hall of Famer
Apr 12, 2012
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I thought a bigger problem was not hitting targets from deep kick outs.

Hard not to hit a defender when no forwards to present a viable option
May was getting the ball kicked directly to him, without him having to move mind, with no Giants within Cooee of him.

I agree the forwards are lacking confidence but it doesn’t help when the mids are using the kick the crap out of it philosophy.

We have zero confidence at the moment across the board.
Will need the off season to rebuild that.
 

GWS Goose

Premiership Player
Nov 14, 2011
3,153
5,262
Emu Plains
AFL Club
GWS
I wanted to use a few more harsher words for the Clubs season but I will tone it down for here but a very disappointing season for the club and testing for everyone involved and all clubs go through ups and downs and it will be a test of all involved including supporters to stick with the club and respect the players for what they haver done although some more than others
Apologies if this turns into a TL;DR but my thoughts
I think the effort on Friday night will say a lot about the club and those involved so hopefully a comfortable win but as we have seen this year with some of the losses and wins we dont know which team will turn up, clearly the team has enough talent to win but it is about applying that and also the coaching staff motivating the players and with Miller and Hayes leaving it will be that much harder and I wish that had been kept until the end of the season but i think with the late ending and how contracts work it needed to be announced and I was surprised with the Corr announcement but maybe it was about sending a message to the playing group about commitment
Not sure of the players on the list who has had a good season apart from Haynes and Perryman I feel everyone else has either stagnated or regressed due to a variety of reasons, injury, form, travel, managing players so i will say that a rest over the off season and looking to come back re invigorated for season 2021
Corr leaving does create an issue with key defenders and also highlights the loss of players over the last few years with the 100 game experience and the hole it creates with the depth on the list
I agree that this off season could be a mini reset for the club and the contracts situation for the club has been very hard previoulsy and with the delay with the cap and list for next season still in the air I am not sure how clubs are re-signing players but hopefully that is announced after the final round or even sooner
I am not worried about Cameron re-signing as he is a key part of the club and is invested in it and I can see Williams and Perryman re-signing and then it comes down to the 3 2nd year players who will have larger contracts with other clubs on offer so i could see all 3 leaving in Caldwell, O'Halloran and Hately which I see as the sacrifice to keep the 3 more experienced players which I think is the right call
the one I am unsure about is Kelly as he could be turned by a larger contract from a Melbourne club and that would set the club back but it could mean 1 or 2 of the 2nd year players stay

My thoughts on list sizes for 2021 is that it will stay at 38 but the rookie list will be reduced to only 2-4 players but with the pre (SSP) + mid season drafts being broader in scope somehow for clubs to cover for injuries
I also think the 2nd tier league with the combined VFL/NEAFL will be a positive for the development of the academy players and those that are developing

The ruck situation has been a yearly discussion since the clubs beginnings and Briggs and Flynn are the future and Jacobs has shown he is past it and i am not sure anything he does over the off season will see him improve so looking for a ruck again and I can see any 2nd ruck being put up as a option but they need to be experienced and not a dinosaur imo

More to follow
I think Josh Kelly is the other whose performances this year have been good.
Id like to see us keep at least 1 of the 3 young mids. Preferably 2.
 

Mr Magic

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 1, 2010
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May was getting the ball kicked directly to him, without him having to move mind, with no Giants within Cooee of him.

I agree the forwards are lacking confidence but it doesn’t help when the mids are using the kick the crap out of it philosophy.

We have zero confidence at the moment across the board.
Will need the off season to rebuild that.
If your backline was not so poor the midfield would not be dragged back so much so you would have more options at half forward maybe?
 

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