List Mgmt. 2020 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Shadow89]

to get you have to give

nothing is for free and no reason for Geelong to feel a sense of entitlement

Tom Lynch.

 

[SouthernGiant]

Absolutely agree regarding Haynes not yet needing to be replaced, and wanting a 1st/2nd KPD this draft to develop - hence my earlier discussion around Jake Stein's development and whether we needed to look at an interim experienced KPD as well as a draftee. (Although I see Taylor becoming the Davis replacement, and needing a sidekick developed. That may be Jake Stein for a few years, or Idun - although he seems too short for the KPD role.) I too had looked primarily at Reid and Cox looking to be a future 1st/2nd KPD; it's just some recent review of player discussions etc has made me a bit wary of taking Reid so early, and Cox certainly has a reasonable amount of development required. Chapman has popped into my mind in a similar way to GWS taking Sam Taylor when he wasn't deemed a need, but was too good to pass up given the circumstances. Obviously, these are just my thoughts and I'm no draft recruiter!

I must admit that I am not a great fan of this year's draft - I think it's worse than previous drafts in a number of areas - so I'm probably tending to cherrypick who I think might work best for us. (Obviously with no recruiting science behind me!) I guess that's the fun of this period of the year - every fan has their own thoughts and ''what if ... '' assessment of the draft and team needs.

I would like to see Himmelberg turned into a CHB.

 

[Giant Strides]

I would like to see Himmelberg turned into a CHB.

Yes, we started him there, so we could try that. He just seemed to regress in the forward line as this season went on - not competing or pulling out of marking contests in the forward line. But at ground level he remained pretty busy. We've used him as a defensive forward in past games.

That would leave us with (presuming we keep Jezza) a forward set up of:

Jezza Riccardi Finlayson (or Ruck/forward) + mediums smalls (Greene Hill Daniels resting midfielder)

and a backline of

Davis Taylor HH Haynes + Ash & whoever else you rate as medium defenders (e.g. Perryman Cumming)

The backup KPDs would be Keeffe Stein Idun - and I would hope that we'd pick up at least one developmental KPD such as Nik Cox (or Zach Reid, though I've cooled on him a touch as per previous posts).

That removes the congestion in the forward line, and gives Riccardi a permanent spot. (He might help resolve Jezza's preference for roaming and delivering into the F50, as well by cutting one of HH/ToJ so there's less competition for that roaming role.)

 

[fridgeman]

With some idea of what is happening re the trade and draft period and the top 25 from afl.com.au out what are thoughts on the clubs needs this period

Cal Twomey's 2020 Phantom Form Guide: October update

AFL.com.au's draft expert Callum Twomey ranks his best 25 players in this year's pool

www.afl.com.au

Tall defender
Outside run
Experienced depth??

I think with Shaw, Williams and Corr leaving does leave a big hole in the defensive end and it will be up to the fringe players to step up in Cumming, Buckley, Idun, Kennedy and I agree that HH should be trialled as a CHB but if the coaches agree is another thing and also I dont want HH to end up as a utility that is really not good at any of the roles he is asked to play, stick him at CHB and leave him there no rucking or swinging forward (Send Haynes or Davis up if they need to mix it up)

I will work of the hypothetical of the club having a rd 1 comp (Williams) and a rd 2 comp (Corr) and then 2 2nd rd from Hately (ADL) and O'Halloran (Value at #30 as I am not sure where he ends up if he does leave) and Cameron stays

#10 (Williams comp)
#20 (From ADL for Hately 2/3rd back to them maybe)
#30 (Corr comp)
#31 (O'Halloran)
#40
#46
#68

Based on history I think the club will try to package up the 2nd rd picks to move up making and I think the Dogs pick maybe up for trade as they need the points leaving the club with #10, #13 and some lower picks
Some of the options for a tall defender all sound positive and it will depend on who the recruiters rate and if they prefer a tall with the 1st pick and where that pick is
None of the mid/defenders really appealed to me but still a while to go till the draft and those with more of an idea on the potential picks please add comments
With the list reductions a few may get squeezed at at the suns that have some experience and maybe keen for another opportunity one I like is
defender Joyce is 23 and has played 63 games from the GC academy


Denver Grainger-Barras
195cm/78kg
17/4/02
Swan Districts/Western Australia
Key defender

Grainger-Barras is among the top-five contenders in this year's pool because of his aerial exploits, his ability to kickstart things from defence and shut down opponents. He enjoyed a strong battle against Logan McDonald late in the season whilst playing for Swan Districts in their WAFL clash, with Grainger-Barras' second half capturing the attention of scouts. He also performed well at the recent WA Combine testing, finishing second for agility (8.13 seconds) and fifth in the sprint (2.993 seconds).

Zach Reid
202cm/82kg
2/3/02
Gippsland Power/Vic Country
Key defender

A skilful tall defender who uses the ball well out of defence and also has the ability to cut off inside-50 forays with his intercept marking. An athletic and modern tall backman who is trusted with the footy in his hands. He played for Leongatha earlier this year in a small window while country leagues were up and going.

Heath Chapman
193cm/81kg
31/1/02
West Perth/Western Australia
Key defender

It was a very strong season for Chapman, who averaged 22 disposals at colts level for West Perth as he dominated out of defence. Playing as a tall backman, Chapman's intercept marking and ability to read the play are his biggest assets. He takes things on, plays with confidence and wants to bring the ball out of the backline. Chapman also made his senior debut late in West Perth's season and handled the step up comfortably. He won the 2km time trial at the WA Combine with an excellent run of 6:20 minutes.

Nik Cox
199cm/82kg
15/1/02
Northern Knights/Vic Metro
Key forward/defender

The son of former Fitzroy, Melbourne and Brisbane player Darryl Cox is an athletic tall player who has been used in a number of spots. He appears best settled as a key forward, but has also spent time on the wing and in the back half. Played for Vic Metro last year and his highlights package will excite.

 

[Andre the Giant]

With some idea of what is happening re the trade and draft period and the top 25 from afl.com.au out what are thoughts on the clubs needs this period

Cal Twomey's 2020 Phantom Form Guide: October update

AFL.com.au's draft expert Callum Twomey ranks his best 25 players in this year's pool

www.afl.com.au

Tall defender
Outside run
Experienced depth??

I think with Shaw, Williams and Corr leaving does leave a big hole in the defensive end and it will be up to the fringe players to step up in Cumming, Buckley, Idun, Kennedy and I agree that HH should be trialled as a CHB but if the coaches agree is another thing and also I dont want HH to end up as a utility that is really not good at any of the roles he is asked to play, stick him at CHB and leave him there no rucking or swinging forward (Send Haynes or Davis up if they need to mix it up)

I will work of the hypothetical of the club having a rd 1 comp (Williams) and a rd 2 comp (Corr) and then 2 2nd rd from Hately (ADL) and O'Halloran (Value at #30 as I am not sure where he ends up if he does leave) and Cameron stays

#10 (Williams comp)
#20 (From ADL for Hately 2/3rd back to them maybe)
#30 (Corr comp)
#31 (O'Halloran)
#40
#46
#68

Based on history I think the club will try to package up the 2nd rd picks to move up making and I think the Dogs pick maybe up for trade as they need the points leaving the club with #10, #13 and some lower picks
Some of the options for a tall defender all sound positive and it will depend on who the recruiters rate and if they prefer a tall with the 1st pick and where that pick is
None of the mid/defenders really appealed to me but still a while to go till the draft and those with more of an idea on the potential picks please add comments
With the list reductions a few may get squeezed at at the suns that have some experience and maybe keen for another opportunity one I like is
defender Joyce is 23 and has played 63 games from the GC academy


Denver Grainger-Barras
195cm/78kg
17/4/02
Swan Districts/Western Australia
Key defender

Grainger-Barras is among the top-five contenders in this year's pool because of his aerial exploits, his ability to kickstart things from defence and shut down opponents. He enjoyed a strong battle against Logan McDonald late in the season whilst playing for Swan Districts in their WAFL clash, with Grainger-Barras' second half capturing the attention of scouts. He also performed well at the recent WA Combine testing, finishing second for agility (8.13 seconds) and fifth in the sprint (2.993 seconds).

Zach Reid
202cm/82kg
2/3/02
Gippsland Power/Vic Country
Key defender

A skilful tall defender who uses the ball well out of defence and also has the ability to cut off inside-50 forays with his intercept marking. An athletic and modern tall backman who is trusted with the footy in his hands. He played for Leongatha earlier this year in a small window while country leagues were up and going.

Heath Chapman
193cm/81kg
31/1/02
West Perth/Western Australia
Key defender

It was a very strong season for Chapman, who averaged 22 disposals at colts level for West Perth as he dominated out of defence. Playing as a tall backman, Chapman's intercept marking and ability to read the play are his biggest assets. He takes things on, plays with confidence and wants to bring the ball out of the backline. Chapman also made his senior debut late in West Perth's season and handled the step up comfortably. He won the 2km time trial at the WA Combine with an excellent run of 6:20 minutes.

Nik Cox
199cm/82kg
15/1/02
Northern Knights/Vic Metro
Key forward/defender

The son of former Fitzroy, Melbourne and Brisbane player Darryl Cox is an athletic tall player who has been used in a number of spots. He appears best settled as a key forward, but has also spent time on the wing and in the back half. Played for Vic Metro last year and his highlights package will excite.

Corr compo will be end of 1st round, signed a ridiculous deal at North 5 years north of 600. Desperate.

 

[PMBangers]

#10 (Williams comp)
#20 (From ADL for Hately 2/3rd back to them maybe)
#30 (Corr comp)
#31 (O'Halloran)

At a guess I'd assume we bid on Campbell and Lachlan Jones with 10 if they haven't already gone, Jones especially suits our needs for a versatile defensive option, will play round 1 for port next year. Then from what I'm guessing will be available perhaps an Oliver Henry/ Nik Cox as versatile options, Cox being close to 200cm is promising for KPD depth, but as Giant Strides has pointed out a lot of development left there, could play Wing for a year or two as well.
20 (around 25/26 after bids and other compensation) We could look at Bailey Laurie from Oakleigh, versatile player a tad under 180 cm with really good skills, he'd be one we could chuck on the wing and I'd be comfortable with going into the future, could possibly release Daniels to push into the centre as well.
30 probably ends up around 35-40 again with bids and compo, depending on if we get a KPP earlier Jackson Callow could be good as a tall utility, is unathletic though so would be interesting to see how he goes based on that. Could throw a chance towards Baldwin, was seen as contending Thilthorpe as the best SA prospect prior to injuring his knee this year (second ACL related injury for him), or a Charlie Byrne/ Jamison Murphy with decent skills out of defense could be available here as well

Just going off of my rankings, 10th is Bruhn, has a lot of boom or bust about him but if it worked out he's exactly the type most of us seem to want for the midfield as a hybrid mid with really good skills. Carroll at 13 has a similar knack for that stuff but I view as more of a wing option

 

[Pres]

Corr compo will be end of 1st round, signed a ridiculous deal at North 5 years north of 600. Desperate.

You have to pay more to extract players from their current clubs and we have acres of cap space. He'll easily be a top 6 defender with us.

 

[PMBangers]

Hately officially gone Adelaide

 

[Andre the Giant]

Hately officially gone Adelaide

Love Caruso and they can’t get them all right but he was always a bizarre selection for us. Adrian had his heart set on Butters and when Port plucked him it messed up our plans.

Very vanilla player with zero hurt factor. Great character, professional, trains hard but more a squad player for mine than a difference maker.

 

[GWS Goose]

Love Caruso and they can’t get them all right but he was always a bizarre selection for us. Adrian had his heart set on Butters and when Port plucked him it messed up our plans.

Very vanilla player with zero hurt factor. Great character, professional, trains hard but more a squad player for mine than a difference maker.

Think they saw him as being a good utility player.
I expect he will go and play a lot of AFL football, he was a reasonable selection.
This is the important part, what do we get for him.
Something in the 20's I expect.

 

[PMBangers]

Love Caruso and they can’t get them all right but he was always a bizarre selection for us. Adrian had his heart set on Butters and when Port plucked him it messed up our plans.

Very vanilla player with zero hurt factor. Great character, professional, trains hard but more a squad player for mine than a difference maker.

I tend to agree, Clark was the obvious choice and has proved as much to date.
As an Under 18 Hately really impressed me, but a lot of what I liked hasn't translated or I over estimated. Seems hesitant to go for contested ball at AFL level and that was not something I would've guessed in 2018. I think his best case is as a High Half Forward, has endurance and a good mark but no real POD outside of that, if you'd call that a POD

 

[Giant Strides]

We are dependent on Adelaide goodwill for what we get for Hately. The games he's played is about average for a not-top-10 draft pick but as he hasn't cracked a permanent first grade spot, they will want to low-ball him. Depends on how low - they obviously can get him via the PSD. I know everyone says it's an empty threat - but Carlton used it successfully last year for Martin, so pretty likely Crows will threaten similarly. IMHO no chance we get their 20 pick; we'd be lucky to get the 30 pick, and they'll probably offer their 40-something pick if being pricks.

Like others, Hately was never in my thoughts for a 'need' in 2018; but disappointed we couldn't identify that he'd likely get go-home-itis.

The Saints posters are all very confident today that Caldwell has committed to them. 5 year deal on good money allegedly. If so, I hope GWS list manager holds firm on their first round pick and nothing back (unless it's a very minor pick we won't use). We've been weak on getting proper value for our outgoing kids these last few years and it is hurting us, but not as much as Caldwell will (even if we get a decent value it will hurt us!).

I have to say that the whole COVID situation probably hasn't helped with those guys - locked up and unable to see families for a long time, no regular games to play if not in first grade - it would have all played into the view that being closer to home was better. But AFL will never be a true national competition if players can so easily cut and run after their first very-short 2 year contract.

 

[crows dude]

Our bulldogs pick (28) or Atkins compo pick will do it I think. Gws and crows seem to get along with each other during trading

 

[GWS Goose]

Our bulldogs pick (28) or Atkins compo pick will do it I think. Gws and crows seem to get along with each other during trading

Where will the Atkins pick land?
28 probably isnt too far away from the mark.
I'd probably want a little more. But as we all know, what we want and get are rarely the same.

 

[crows dude]

Where will the Atkins pick land?
28 probably isnt too far away from the mark.
I'd probably want a little more. But as we all know, what we want and get are rarely the same.

Probably end of 2nd or start of. Band 3 or 4

 

[Andre the Giant]

My intel is that the Crows are going to offer very little and use the PSD threat. They are in full combat mode and looking to bounce quick. This will be a very bad result for us unfortunately.

 

[Colonial]

My intel is that the Crows are going to offer very little and use the PSD threat. They are in full combat mode and looking to bounce quick. This will be a very bad result for us unfortunately.

Can’t blame them but can we stop being the nice guys in trades, ****ing drives me nuts.

We play nice and get players to where they want. Yet clubs screw us. **** em.

 

[Colonial]

Why Hately has requested a trade from GWS to Adelaide

His manager has now cleared the air on his reasoning for requesting a trade.

www.sen.com.au

 

[Danny88]

A lot depends on Adelaide’s intentions... I mean if they are full north rebuild mode then maybe we can pry an experienced head from the list

 

[Crow till I die]

Can’t blame them but can we stop being the nice guys in trades, ******* drives me nuts.

We play nice and get players to where they want. Yet clubs screw us. fu** em.

I just saw your comment. where did you hear that from as the majority of crows fans posting are quite comfortable with offering say the bulldogs 2nd we have for Jackson. I hope we don't make things really difficult as your club has always been a good trading partner with us

 

[Pres]

Can’t blame them but can we stop being the nice guys in trades, ******* drives me nuts.

We play nice and get players to where they want. Yet clubs screw us. fu** em.

I find it quite embarrassing that in this day and age it's still tolerated in our game to allow non-free agents to "nominate" their destination club.

GWS drafted him. They hold his rights. It should be expected that the club shop him round to all 17 clubs and get the best possible return to GWS.

If he wanted to be round his family 24/7 he could have played for a local SA club rather than electing to join a professional national competition.

 

[Danny88]

I find it quite embarrassing that in this day and age it's still tolerated in our game to allow non-free agents to "nominate" their destination club.

GWS drafted him. They hold his rights. It should be expected that the club shop him round to all 17 clubs and get the best possible return to GWS.

If he wanted to be round his family 24/7 he could have played for a local SA club rather than electing to join a professional national competition.

You are a purist mate. The club doesn’t own the player, they are merely an employee

 

[Andre the Giant]

I find it quite embarrassing that in this day and age it's still tolerated in our game to allow non-free agents to "nominate" their destination club.

GWS drafted him. They hold his rights. It should be expected that the club shop him round to all 17 clubs and get the best possible return to GWS.

If he wanted to be round his family 24/7 he could have played for a local SA club rather than electing to join a professional national competition.

The AFL if they really want to be a genuine national competition and not the playpen of a few rich clubs should bring in mandatory 4 year rookie contracts.

Clubs like GWS are really disadvantaged atm because they have to overpay young players to keep them. Once they are settled and happy it becomes fairer but those first years are hard.

I reckon that is even more valid than the nomination process but I do take your point and things are too heavily skewed to players.

 

[Giant Strides]

The kids are not slaves, and we need to be cautious of what we demand ... but a longer initial period for first round selections (a sliding scale of years vs round selection has been suggested in the past) seems reasonable.

A club not in a footy heartland is always going to struggle against the call of home. Kids are less likely to break straight into a strong club's first grade team, need to time to develop and consolidate, but are always at risk of being poached early. There's very little intra-state poaching of players!

Anyway, we'll see how hard-arse the Crows want to be in the trade arena in a few weeks time.

 

[dlanod]

I find it quite embarrassing that in this day and age it's still tolerated in our game to allow non-free agents to "nominate" their destination club.

GWS drafted him. They hold his rights. It should be expected that the club shop him round to all 17 clubs and get the best possible return to GWS.

If he wanted to be round his family 24/7 he could have played for a local SA club rather than electing to join a professional national competition.

The two clubs and the player has to sign off any trade.

The player can refuse to be traded to any of the 16 other clubs regardless of the offer.

If a trade is not completed, a player's recourse is to enter one of the drafts. This is what happened with Jack Martin.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Can’t blame them but can we stop being the nice guys in trades, ******* drives me nuts.

We play nice and get players to where they want. Yet clubs screw us. fu** em.

Sold us a lemon with Curtly Hampton, you owe us a square up!