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List Mgmt. 2020 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

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Charlie Spargo would be OK. An ex-GWS academy kid from the Riverina, so familiar with our set-up and not specifically Melburnian so might be happy to come to us (especially if his other options is delisting). However, we ignored him and took Binga Daniels in their draft year, so we obviously rated Charlie less. He's another shorter player at 173 cms - taller than Binga but shorter than Langdon (and Bobby, and obviously Dan Lloyd). I'd just be wary of going too short. Spargo is probably better at kicking goals, but Binga is probably better all round, and has some zip.

We currently have 5 small/medium forwards - Toby, Bobby, Binga, Lloyd & Langdon. We'd want at least 1 to replace Zac, and could take a second. However, we probably don't need to take 2 because we can play numerous mids/utilities forward - Coniglio, Perryman, Hutchesson, de Boer, Shipley & even Callum Brown. With Lloyd 29 next year, and Toby 27; Bobby and Binga developing into solid selections for us this year, I would be content to simply draft a small/medium forward for longer term development. Not disregarding Spargo who's only 21 next season, it's just we probably understand his ceiling and with our draft picks it wouldn't really hurt our list balance if we went younger and hoped for a higher ceiling.

The other potential mid-age experienced player could be Jack Lonie from Saints, 24 years old. They might potentially offload him for the $ especially if they have to pay up to keep Brouch for free - though apparently willing for a 1 year contract but he'd like 2. 3 clubs in Melbourne chasing him supposedly, so probably unlikely to come north, and possibly would want more $ than we'd like to pay. If losing Jezza saved us $, no point spending them on a backup!

So, I'd probably prefer to draft, it would leave our small/medium forward age range as 29, 27, 22, 21 & 18, plus the mids/utilities.

In the draft, there would be plenty of possibilities for forwards at the various draft picks we're likely to get:
  • Archie Perkins - 186cm who could transition into the midfield, probably early to mid teens
  • Caleb Poulter - 192cm who could also be a wing option, probably late teens to early 20s
  • Brayden Cook - 189cm who could also be a wing option, early 20s
  • Joel Jeffrey - 192cm utility can play forward, unless pre-selected by GCS due to being NT, early 20s
  • Bailey Laurie - 178cm high impact forward who could transition into the midfield, mid to late 20s
  • Eddie Ford - 186cm who could transition into the midfield, anywhere from mid teens to late 20s
  • Isiah Winder - 179cm who could also play wing & possibly defence, 30s pick.
So, for mine, plenty of options and I'd be happy to go for an experienced player (depth or best 22) in another area of need and take a punt on a draftee as a forward who might have the ability to transition to midfield sometime later in their career.
 
Honestly, five small forwards seems overkill already.

Ideally you'd want two in the seniors plus a rotating mid with goal sense, then a couple in the reserves - that's four. Unless Daniels does what I hope he does and moves in to that rotating mid role (no comment on his goal sense), we should be at capacity.

I'd rather use that extra list spot for a backup tall given the rate at which we go through those.
 
I’d like us to trade up again to get the best player we can. Whatever we have left, use to trade for mature depth.

A lot of negativity in here. We have Greene, Haynes, Cogs and Whitters sign on for life.
Jezza has gone at the height of his trade value.

We have an excellent recruitment team who previously targeted Taranto, Taylor, Daniels, Hill, etc. They’ve done an outstanding job.
It is only going to make us stronger.... allow us to have a couple of guns at each age bracket. This ensures we will always be competitive.

I’m happy to scrap this year. If we start off next year in a similar fashion, that is when we all put heat on the club to part ways with Leon.
In short, relax. Stay positive and enjoy life!
 

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Huge over reaction from everyone regarding Cameron leaving he was ordinary this season these trades often end up favouring the original club just need to keep picking the right players to come through also not a big wrap on either Caldwell or Hateley looked average players Taranto and Green have lengths on them.
The biggest problem I can see at Giants is the ridiculous game plan for success and the supporters sake start moving the ball quicker as other clubs are now doing that was painful watching Giants games at times last season and made it hard for all the forwards.
 
Last edited:
Giant Strides said:
In the draft, there would be plenty of possibilities for forwards at the various draft picks we're likely to get:
  • Archie Perkins - 186cm who could transition into the midfield, probably early to mid teens
  • Caleb Poulter - 192cm who could also be a wing option, probably late teens to early 20s
  • Brayden Cook - 189cm who could also be a wing option, early 20s
  • Joel Jeffrey - 192cm utility can play forward, unless pre-selected by GCS due to being NT, early 20s
  • Bailey Laurie - 178cm high impact forward who could transition into the midfield, mid to late 20s
  • Eddie Ford - 186cm who could transition into the midfield, anywhere from mid teens to late 20s
  • Isiah Winder - 179cm who could also play wing & possibly defence, 30s pick.
Click to expand...
Ford and Laurie my favourite for us from that bunch, if we managed to get them both and Chapman earlier on that'd be a very good draft haul
 
Ausbenito said:
Huge over reaction from everyone regarding Cameron leaving he was ordinary this season these trades often end up favouring the original club just need to keep picking the right players to come through also not a big wrap on either Caldwell or Hateley looked average players Taranto and Green have lengths on them.
The biggest problem I can see at Giants is the ridiculous game plan for success and the supporters sake start moving the ball quicker as other clubs are now doing that was painful watching Giants games at times last season and made it hard for all the forwards.
Click to expand...

I reckon that is a pretty fair assessment.

I'm particularly interested in your comments on Caldwell, most opposition supporters (not me) were salivating at the prospect of securing him. I saw a small mid who had done nothing at all to warrant the adulation and the pay packet on offer from the Bombers (5 years @ $500K) seemed like massive overs based on his output to date.

Thing is, if the Bombers want to offer a contract like that, they can't expect you to accept a pie and a packet of cheezuls for him too.

Hately looks a player, just needs time, you may have missed out on one there but your midfield is hard to break into, may as well cash in whilst you can.

Cameron leaving will be a massive blessing in disguise IMO. He is/was one of the main reasons (well as close as I can read it) for the discontent and onfield failure this year. He was given everything he asked for but didn't want to do the hard work as a repayment. That attitude can permeate across the whole list and drag everyone down.

I keep seeing Jason McCartney around my local neighborhood, next time I do I'll hit him up for some gossip.
 
Ausbenito said:
Huge over reaction from everyone regarding Cameron leaving he was ordinary this season these trades often end up favouring the original club just need to keep picking the right players to come through also not a big wrap on either Caldwell or Hateley looked average players Taranto and Green have lengths on them.
The biggest problem I can see at Giants is the ridiculous game plan for success and the supporters sake start moving the ball quicker as other clubs are now doing that was painful watching Giants games at times last season and made it hard for all the forwards.
Click to expand...
Yeah the slow ball movement was a killer. in 2016 we had the orange tsunami and moved it faster than anyone in the comp. But we were regularly exposed on the turnover with that and many puntits said we couldnt win a GF with that game plan. Hence the shift to a more assured way of moving and controlling the ball.

But this year it was putrid. I've been the biggest advocate in LC staying on as coach as he had a lot of credits in the bank... however, I think this year has used up those credits. He starts from scratch in 2021 for me
 
At least some journos can see and report objectively on the problem ... unlike others of the #Vicmediabias who are simply opposed to anything non-Victorian.

The "staggering" amount of money Essendon will pay Jye Caldwell

"Essendon will deny (this figure)."
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au

Young midfielder Jye Caldwell has walked out on GWS, reportedly nominating Essendon as his club of choice. The 20-year-old Victorian, who was taken with pick 11 in the 2018 National Draft, has struggled to break into the Giants side on a regular basis and has opted to return to his home state in search of more consistent game time. Speaking on Sportsday, Sam McClure shed some more light on the “staggering” amount of money the Bombers will be paying him.

“Jye Caldwell will join Essendon on a five-year deal on $550,000 per season,” he said. “He’s played 11 games and hasn’t had more than 16 disposals in any of those 11 games. The Giants like him, Essendon will deny (this figure) but every club has the right to do that. This is a personal opinion, but I find that a staggering amount of money.”

Caldwell reportedly chose Essendon’s five-year deal over St Kilda, who were offering a four-year contract for the talented on-baller. Kane Cornes told SEN’s The Captain’s Run on Friday that younger players being handed exorbitant contracts was more of a problem for the game than free agency. (Well, I'd opine they are both problems for the game!)
 
dlanod said:
Honestly, five small forwards seems overkill already.

Ideally you'd want two in the seniors plus a rotating mid with goal sense, then a couple in the reserves - that's four. Unless Daniels does what I hope he does and moves in to that rotating mid role (no comment on his goal sense), we should be at capacity.

I'd rather use that extra list spot for a backup tall given the rate at which we go through those.
Click to expand...
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion dlanod and you always talk sense on footy matters, but I do disagree with this. We usually play 3 small/medium forwards in first grade (plus 3 talls & a resting mid), so I believe that 3 + 2 spares is the minimum required. Obviously the numbers can get fuzzy around the midfielder/forward distinction, and if we draft someone who we think will be a mid in the long term but can go forward initially then, OK count them as a mid. But we do need to be careful to preserve some players who have that forward craft and can kick bags of goals: the Charlie Camerons & Cyril Riolis are worth a lot to a team.

I'm probably the dead opposite WRT your comments on the talls too! With Flynn & Briggs needing a spot, effectively one or both are playing as part-time forwards, so I'm somewhat sanguine about getting another. I'd tend to look at out current set up as acceptable:

First grade (hopefully!): Riccardi Himmelberg Flynn (Preuss in ruck, 25% relief by Flynn)

Second grade: Buckley Finlayson Briggs (Mumford in ruck for some games, 50% relief by Briggs in those; otherwise Briggs to ruck & Sproule comes forward from otherwise playing on a wing)

If we elected to draft a development forward, that's OK, but I don't see it as an absolute need this year. There's also talk of us getting Ratagulea from Geelong in the Jezza FA/trade, which does support your view of course!
 
Ausbenito said:
Huge over reaction from everyone regarding Cameron leaving he was ordinary this season these trades often end up favouring the original club just need to keep picking the right players to come through also not a big wrap on either Caldwell or Hateley looked average players Taranto and Green have lengths on them.
The biggest problem I can see at Giants is the ridiculous game plan for success and the supporters sake start moving the ball quicker as other clubs are now doing that was painful watching Giants games at times last season and made it hard for all the forwards.
Click to expand...

Really...

Huge overreaction to losing a foundation player who has been champion goal kicker every year since our inception (9 times) 2 x All Australian 1 x Club Champion and 1 x Coleman medalist who age profile wise is just about to enter the sweet spot of his career. Yeah stuff him, we will replace that easy, just like you guys replaced Pavlich.

Caldwell and Hately pffft just average 1st round speculative picks, neither of them is a Fyfe or Dangerfield so why all the hullabaloo . O’Halloran can go too, we don’t need early picks.

Zac Williams??? Zac who, never seen him win a ruck contest or kick 8 goals, pure fodder and flick the fingers and he’s replaced.

Ball movement the problem? No worries, no doubt same coach who has implemented the structure of the team will have an epiphany and unleash all these new ideas he’s had locked away for a rainy day.

Lack of two way runners and accountability?? Wtf am I talking about now? These boys were put on earth to entertain, good offence makes defence, they will sort that glitch out!

Inability to get our key defender on the park? Who cares, he’s old and replaceable, Lachie Keeffe has already made it look like he never played, Phil who?? Just hope we can re-sign this gun to a 5 year deal to keep the wolves at bay!

Coaches favourites? Huh, that is a fallacy, Reid is a future Hall of Famer plus he has overcome diabetes so he must be resilient as well as talented, thank goodness the coach hasn’t cost Reidy games by playing unproven kids.

Nothing to see here, everything is AOK, jog along cynics.

(**The above is a summary of a conversation held earlier today between the Loch Ness Monster and a Bigfoot).
 
Last edited:
dlanod said:
Honestly, five small forwards seems overkill already.

Ideally you'd want two in the seniors plus a rotating mid with goal sense, then a couple in the reserves - that's four. Unless Daniels does what I hope he does and moves in to that rotating mid role (no comment on his goal sense), we should be at capacity.

I'd rather use that extra list spot for a backup tall given the rate at which we go through those.
Click to expand...
Given our likely very one paced mid rotation I’d expect him to get increased time in the miss. His mid time was noticeably more this year than last.
 
Let me preface my following thoughts with my preference would have been to retain Jezza every day of the week.

However... one of my great frustrations with the giants “game style” centres around Camerons strengths and his role within the side.

His strength is going back to goal, ability to get space and out manoeuvre opponents and being very clever with ball in hand to kick goals.

He has also been the highest paid player in the team playing CHF/FF. What you want from a CHF/FF who is the highest paid is someone who kicks the big goals but also brings other players into the game and makes them better. They take multiple defenders to stop and create opportunity for the smalls and others inside 50 to kick goals on top of their own output. Think Hawkin/Kennedy/Dixon/Lynch/Daniher/Buddy. All kick goals but they all create a strong contested and mark or bring it front and centre which brings others into the game.

The output from Cameron was a second fiddle who warranted the salary the big show.

This is also the reason why I think the cats will be the team to beat in the next few years because Hawkins provides Cameron exactly what he needs to perform at his best. The two will complement each other perfectly.

Although I losing all these players hurts it might work out in the long run because it will take heat out of the salary cap, spread the age profile further and potentially help game style.
 

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THIS week, Draft Central launched its brand new series of pocket podcasts, a collection of short-form discussions which narrow in on a range of topics heading into the 2020 AFL Draft. In the series premiere, Chief Editor Peter Williams sat down with AFL Draft Editor Michael Alvaro to compare their rankings of the top four key position defenders in this year’s crop, but with a twist.

The players in question; Heath Chapman, Nikolas Cox, Denver Grainger-Barras, and Zach Reid are all touted as first round prospects, and it just so happens that they are also all key position defenders who use the ball brilliantly by foot. Their linear traits got our editors thinking – ‘if our club was looking for a key defender in the first round, which one would we take?’ and ‘all four players boast excellent kicks, but which one is best?’.

Here are Peter and Michael’s respective orders:

Peter – Reid, Chapman, Cox, Grainger-Barras
Michael – Chapman, Reid, Cox, Grainger-Barras

Taken into account in the ranking process were parameters such as; efficiency, damage, penetration, technique, style, decision making, and dual-sidedness, making for some tough decisions. In the end, the orders were relatively similar. Remember, these charts are purely indicative of our opinions on their kicking, and not of their overall potential. For the latter, check out our latest Power Rankings.

Here is a breakdown of each player’s kicking prowess:

Heath Chapman – An attacking defender of sorts, Chapman’s combination of penetration and accuracy made him hard to deny as Michael’s first choice. The West Australian opens up play with his distribution, not just in the back half, but also as he dashes further afield. The 193cm talent makes great decisions and is a damaging force across half-back.

Nikolas Cox – The Northern Knights utility can play just about anywhere, but his kicking truly comes to the fore when stationed across half-back or even on the wing. Cox is comfortable kicking on either foot and hit targets with aplomb. His efficiency is up there with each other contender, but his arching style makes his 199cm height a touch more evident when on the move.

Denver Grainger-Barras – The most highly touted player of the lot, Grainger-Barras’ place on either list is hardly a knock on his proficiency by foot. While he may not prove as offensively creative or penetrative, the West Australian is a composed user of the ball in defence and simply gets the job done.

Zach Reid – At 202cm, Reid’s efficiency and fluency by foot is something to behold. His technique and style on the ball replicates that of a player 20cm shorter than him, meaning he was an easy choice for Peter in top spot. Reid is as reliable as anyone on the ball, with his relieving use by foot important when forming transitional play.

While we may well essentially be splitting hairs, it is interesting to see just what makes a player good at their craft. The two Victorians – Cox and Reid – are both around the 200cm mark, so are somewhat boosted by being so outstanding in their disposal for a player of their size. Even at 195cm and 193cm respectively, Grainger-Barras and Chapman are fantastic ball users considering their roles and physical make-ups.
 
Cox without a doubt.
One important factor is I reckon we’ll become more reluctant to recruit guys they need a couple of years to physically develop.
By the time they’re right to play other clubs swoop in and pick them off.
Maybe that’s why we’re into McDonald.
 
Chapman without doubt for me. "Great intercept mark, but main point of difference is he's a wonderful kick of the ball, elite running capacity, repeat runs, penetration by foot."

We've lost the orange tsunami and struggle to get out of our D50 - for me Chapman can come into the team early in the year and start making a difference in this area. He doesn't need to play the Haynes-like intercepting role even though he's described as being capable of this; but he can play small & tall defensively, has the ball sense to know when to leave his man - but the main point being a great ball user to help our rebound. Davis & Taylor need to play the main KPD roles, Chapman assumes a third tall role, Haynes remains the interceptor; then we have 3 medium defenders (for me to start with, Whitfield plus Ash & Cumming as runners, or Perryman if we need a tighter role). I think that would be a well balanced side and go towards fixing our deficiencies.

I do like Nik Cox though, but he's quite raw and would need (IMHO) a couple of years to develop. So he doesn't help us in the short term, and we're more looking at him building up to replace Davis in 3-4 years if we draft him.
 
Pres said:
Terrible loss Caldwell. Can't believe the club could not keep him.

The club looks to be right at the crossroads. Seriously good players heading for the exit door everywhere.
Click to expand...

I don't know if we're at a crossroads - that might be a little strong - but there were underlying issues within the playing group exposed by the disruption of COVID.

The prospect of success kept them in check, but with that gone, it's a bit like a valve has been released.

And while it's disappointing to lose good players (or those with potential), if they don't want to be here, we're better off without them.
 
I reckon they thought they’d just get to the finals after the year before. Especially after our rd 1 win against Geelong. They got ahead of themselves and turned in a horrendous performance against North.
They couldn’t practise enough during the season to find the form they needed.
Huge offseason ahead for the whole club.
 
Interesting comment in SEN from Sam Edmunds ... possibly just due diligence from us, but what do GWS fans think of this?

Jesse's had well documented personal, medical & mental health issues so comes with a lot of baggage. Wouldn't want to pay him a lot nor have a long contract if we were going to do it ( a rent/buy approach, so to speak) - nor pay a lot in a trade. But is he even worth thinking about, or just too high a risk?

Jesse Hogan (Fremantle)

“Fremantle has told clubs that he’s available and gettable for a trade,” he said.

“Whether those clubs are willing to go there is the question we can’t answer at the moment. I’m told GWS will ask the question to sound him out and whether he’d be interested in coming over east.

“He’s really struggled to make an impact at Fremantle, he’s a curious case.”
 

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Giant Strides said:
Interesting comment in SEN from Sam Edmunds ... possibly just due diligence from us, but what do GWS fans think of this?

Jesse's had well documented personal, medical & mental health issues so comes with a lot of baggage. Wouldn't want to pay him a lot nor have a long contract if we were going to do it ( a rent/buy approach, so to speak) - nor pay a lot in a trade. But is he even worth thinking about, or just too high a risk?

Jesse Hogan (Fremantle)

“Fremantle has told clubs that he’s available and gettable for a trade,” he said.

“Whether those clubs are willing to go there is the question we can’t answer at the moment. I’m told GWS will ask the question to sound him out and whether he’d be interested in coming over east.

“He’s really struggled to make an impact at Fremantle, he’s a curious case.”
Click to expand...

Jesse has got permission / or tapped on the shoulder to shop himself around
You would assume that the trade price would be unders then as they want to move him on

He plays deep and would allow Riccardi to be a workhorse at CHF

Risk is high but again all comes down to what Fremantle are asking for him
 
General Giant said:
If the cost isn’t great then there’s a massive upside to him. Might be better with out the media fishbowl.

But it would have to be an almost Rookie contract for us to surely take on.
Click to expand...

You would think by mid-week it will be known if he is staying at Freo or announcing his trade preference club after meeting with selected clubs

Was our sell to him better then the Swans, who did he impress the most - time will tell
 
Agree that it's a low likelihood of happening. There's a saying in stockbroking - 'don't try to catch a falling knife' - that would equally apply here for us. Conversely, being out of the AFL fishbowls of Melbourne & Perth might be just what he needs. Focus on training, playing and enjoying the game. Don't think he's had that the last 3 or 4 years!

I'm not decided on what I think of it. Really it depends on how much his pay is (would have to be heavily incentive-based hopefully) and how much we pay for him. Everyone loves a good redemption story - maybe Matt de Boer should get in his ear.

But (providing the price is right), I would absolutely prefer him to Tom McDonald on a huge wage !
 

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