List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

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Blue Pulse

Premiership Player
Mar 19, 2014
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We know he's a stupid old man, but this really tells you a lot assuming it's true.
Ah yes, Sheedy, like a gambler, brags about his wins.

What makes them think Grundy would still be there? Salary cap would have forced him out or others a lot quicker. SOS is stubborn, we know that, but the "what if" stories are just that.
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
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The problem with someone saying we should have done this instead of that and calling it out years later, is that you simply can't play the situation out all the way through to the end.

Who knows what Grundy may have been like and how he would have developed at GWS?
Who knows whether he would have asked to have been traded for lack of opportunity, given Mumford was a staple?

There are other intangible and I feel more so with a ruckman than a midfielder, because of the time they do take to become first-team regulars.

It's so lazy from Sheedy. Look forward to SOS biting back :
 

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blue healer

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 25, 2010
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Every single list manager in the history of sport has had big misses, SOS is no different.

Name who you believe the best in the business to be, and I guarantee we can find errors that list manager has made. Errors - not just one, but many.

Suggesting one missed pick tarnishes his reputation is a massive stretch.

Also find it funny we bemoan non-recruiting staff for reportedly involving themselves in our own recruiting, yet here you are suggesting it's the domain of the head coach to intervene.
There is no debate about the bolded, no one gets it right all the time. I"d bet that Sheedy himself never got it right all the time.

I dislike the man, he's the sole reason that my second favorite team is the one that plays Essendon every week.

But I don't think the hit rate of SOS or any list manager is the point here. I think consultation, or lack of, between all parties is the real point.

I thought the telling point of the article was when Sheedy said " It's the first time I've never been allowed to have an opinion in the draft as head coach"

This man is (even though I hate to admit it) a coaching great with four premierships and he was apparently supported by another who has coached a premiership side.You dismiss footy brains like that at your own peril.

A number of posters on here have said that SOS was moved on because he didn't always listen to those around him and, while there's little point in revisiting the past, it may give us some insight into our actions last year.

But then again......Liddle.
 

Blue Pulse

Premiership Player
Mar 19, 2014
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You literally said nothing about Kennedy bar delist?

Kennedy when given opportunity has shown potential at AFL level both as a forward and a midfielder. But unfortunately he can't get a game regardless of how poorly other favourites perform.

Moore in two games and at Richmond prior showed nothing at AFL level.

Further if Kennedy was bad as you seem to believe he could be delisted and rookied. It wouldn't work because a club that wasn't brain dead would snap him up.

Absolutely no chance he is delisted, traded possibly. But I doubt even that.
What irks me about Kennedy, is that every good game this season has been in the wet on a slow deck, on a dry deck he fails to impact, coincidence or just too slow?
 

DangerousD

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2015
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Would be better to pay in picks this year, money in past years. We don't need the kids now, we need already developed jets.
Can only overpay with 1 or 2 players anyway. Cripps, Charlie, Martin, Weiters, McKay, Mcg and Murphy all on very good money you'd think.
Developed Jets, as in Williams or Viney for free.
you always need new kids coming through the door, especially us, who have invested heavily in the draft and have big question marks over the quality of many of our kids.
 

bigm386

Premiership Player
May 17, 2012
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What irks me about Kennedy, is that every good game this season has been in the wet on a slow deck, on a dry deck he fails to impact, coincidence or just too slow?
He did have some good games up forward last year.

I think Kennedy is a bad fit in our 2020 midfield mix as its very slow and he isn't given priority as an inside clearance mid.

With Curnow, Cripps, Setterfield and Murphy being our top 4 attending centre clearances Kennedy just doesn't fit at the moment.

EDIT: But with Curnow and Cripps Murphy potentially in final seasons in 2021 I think long term we need Kennedy.

To me the midfield mix going forward should be Cripps/Setterfield, with one of Curnow/Kennedy/JSOS/Kemp (assuming he plays midfield and not Forward Pocket as is the Carlton Way) and 2 of Walsh, SPS, Gibbons, Cunners, Philp etc.

I hated our 2020 midfield mix as it was treacle slow, Teague kept bringing up how we struggled to break out of the clearance but changed nothing. Didn't help our wings for most of 2020 also lacked pace :(
 
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Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
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Ideal scenario for me -
b. 2020 first rounder for an inside/outside mid who can impact forward.
Given the number of mids we've recruited with 1st round picks in the last few years, wouldn't a forward be more ideal, especially if we do get Williams in?
 

Macca43

Premiership Player
Mar 10, 2011
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Given the number of mids we've recruited with 1st round picks in the last few years, wouldn't a forward be more ideal, especially if we do get Williams in?
I ouwld love to think that Dow, O'Brien, Stocker, Philp & Kemp emerge as quality players next year, but I would prefer to lock in a top shelf mid and make it a certainty.
 

Angel Duster

Rookie
Aug 25, 2017
42
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Anyway, onto the here and now, and assuming list sizes remain the same:

Retired: Simpson, Kreuzer
Potential retirements: Betts
Delist: Kennedy, O'Dwyer, Lang, Polson, Goddard (r), Cottrell (r)
Possible delist: Newman, Macreadie, Moore (r), F.Phillips (r)

Trade bait: Marchbank, JSOS, O'Brien, Casboult, Cuningham, Plowman, Fisher, SPS

Ideal FA/trade acquisitions: Williams, Crouch (subject to medical)

Ideal draft candidate: Will Phillips


Potential best 22, assuming Betts retires:

FB: Plowman/Marchbank Jones Williamson
HB: Docherty Weitering Williams
C: Walsh E.Curnow O'Brien
HF: Martin C.Curnow Fisher
FF: Kemp McKay Cuningham

R: TDK Cripps Crouch

Int: Setterfield, Murphy, W.Phillips, SPS

EMG:
Dow, Gibbons/Newnes, Casboult, JSOS/McGovern

Next 22:

FB: Plowman/Marchbank BSOS Newman
HB: ??? Macreadie ???
C: Newnes Philp Ramsay
HF: Honey McGovern Gibbons
FF: JSOS Casboult Owies

R: Pittonet Moore Dow

Int: Stocker, F.Phillips, ???, ???

This reveals our clearest needs at the draft beyond a premium mid: smaller defenders, forwards and mids. Players who can zip around the field and execute foot skills consistently. Of that shortlist, small forwards would be the least pressing, but if the draft order falls our way we should definitely snap up any talent.

The other obvious gap is that we probably need to bring in an athletic KPD to develop over time, in case Macreadie or BSOS never develop to replace Jones. KPF stocks also look a bit thin, but there's some flexibility due to TDK, Cripps and Kemp, alongside JSOS, Moore and McGovern, though Moore needs a lot of work.

Some might feel that Moore could solve the KPD issue, but I would honestly prefer to train him in the midfield group and see what he can produce. Get him lean and see what he can do throwing his weight around after training some stoppage reads all summer.
WOW...I am glad you are not constructing my share portfolio !!!!
 

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Macca43

Premiership Player
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GC offered us pick 11 (PP) for the pick we took Philp with at the draft.
Assuming this is true, given roughly a quarter of the top 25 in the draft are academy players and given most of the draftees haven't played for 12 months I think I am happier with Philp than to take a punt on what will likely end up being a pick around 15.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 20, 2006
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Assuming this is true, given roughly a quarter of the top 25 in the draft are academy players and given most of the draftees haven't played for 12 months I think I am happier with Philp than to take a punt on what will likely end up being a pick around 15.
Yeh I’m no criticising the move I’m just more pointing out people are probably overvaluing draft picks abit this year.
We may get lucky with 7 being in abit of a sweet spot though
 

bigblueboy

Team Captain
Aug 20, 2007
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He did have some good games up forward last year.

I think Kennedy is a bad fit in our 2020 midfield mix as its very slow and he isn't given priority as an inside clearance mid.

With Curnow, Cripps, Setterfield and Murphy being our top 4 attending centre clearances Kennedy just doesn't fit at the moment.

But with Curnow and Cripps potentially in final seasons in 2021 I think long term we need Kennedy.

To me the midfield mix going forward should be Cripps/Setterfield, with one of Curnow/Kennedy/JSOS/Kemp (assuming he plays midfield and not Forward Pocket as is the Carlton Way) and 2 of Walsh, SPS, Gibbons, Cunners, Philp etc.

I hated our 2020 midfield mix as it was treacle slow, Teague kept bringing up how we struggled to break out of the clearance but changed nothing. Didn't help our wings for most of 2020 also lacked pace :(
Dictionary definition of pessimism right here.
 

HARKER

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Oct 15, 2008
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Given the number of mids we've recruited with 1st round picks in the last few years, wouldn't a forward be more ideal, especially if we do get Williams in?
On face value yes, but we know we won't see Papley and I wouldn't want a small forward just for the sake of getting one.
Papley was much more than just someone that hovers around the edges for a cheap kick.

We still need speed, spread & accumulation and if a Gaff/Kelly type was somewhere out there, we should still be looking.
We're not going to get that from O'Brien and neither Dow nor SPS fit that mould, whilst it's all too early to put our eggs in the Kemp/Philp basket.

What I don't want from Austin and co is to throw out too many darts.
I just want 2 or 3 of the right players. Not asking for much
 

Stamos

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Mar 30, 2010
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On face value yes, but we know we won't see Papley and I wouldn't want a small forward just for the sake of getting one.
Papley was much more than just someone that hovers around the edges for a cheap kick.

We still need speed, spread & accumulation and if a Gaff/Kelly type was somewhere out there, we should still be looking.
We're not going to get that from O'Brien and neither Dow nor SPS fit that mould, whilst it's all too early to put our eggs in the Kemp/Philp basket.

What I don't want from Austin and co is to throw out too many darts.
I just want 2 or 3 of the right players. Not asking for much
I misread and thought that was if we took that pick to the draft, rather than trading it
 

HARKER

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I misread and thought that was if we took that pick to the draft, rather than trading it
What do you think we need Stamos ?

Many of us get a little excited for just about every name that gets raised.
I don't and I don't want to see us taking on surplus players just to be seen to be doing 'stuff' and more to that point; to suggest that we don't trust what we have.

That would make for a terrible outcome for us and for what has been put in place already.
Our best course to becoming a powerhouse is to develop well and if we can't do that.......throw the baby out with the bathwater and start again.
 

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