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2020 Trade & List Management discussion

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1970crow said:
HS is a lot like Sloane, "enjoying his footy more than ever this year". Does defend him a lot too, maybe he is Sloane. Wonder if he also thinks Chapman is the protector and godfather of the AFC? That'd be a dead giveaway.
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No mate, you're my hero.
 
Mego Red said:
That's a sunk cost fallacy.

The decision to keep him now shouldn't be affected by an earlier mistake to overpay him. That decision has been made and gone.
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Calling Davis a sunk cost is a fallacy.

Looked handy in round 1 & never got another look in... but may again with Stengle suspension.
 

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Can someone please outline what is the minimum and maximum amount of list spots we have to fill assuming that we get hately and there are no more delistings?
 
Crowbots are dead said:
Can someone please outline what is the minimum and maximum amount of list spots we have to fill assuming that we get hately and there are no more delistings?
Click to expand...

Minimum 0 rookies to fill, maximum 1

I believe we have minimum 4, maximum 6 senior list spots
 
Crowbots are dead said:
Can someone please outline what is the minimum and maximum amount of list spots we have to fill assuming that we get hately and there are no more delistings?
Click to expand...
Senior List
We had 38 players on our senior list.
We have delisted 7 (Gibbs, Knight, Brouch, Atkins, Hartigan, Gallucci, Poholke).
We will be adding Hately.

Senior List sizes will be 36-38 next year, so that's 4-6 positions available on our senior list.

Rookie List
We had 6 players on our rookie list.
We have delisted 3 (Crocker, Taylor, Wilson).

Cat A rookie lists will be 0-4 next year, so that's 0-1 position available.
Cat B rookie lists will be 0-3, so that's 0-3 positions available.

*** Note that there are minimum & maximum total list sizes (senior + Cat A rookie + Cat B rookie):
minimum total list size = 37
maximum total list size = 44
 
Vader said:
Senior List
We had 38 players on our senior list.
We have delisted 7 (Gibbs, Knight, Brouch, Atkins, Hartigan, Gallucci, Poholke).
We will be adding Hately.

Senior List sizes will be 36-38 next year, so that's 4-6 positions available on our senior list.

Rookie List
We had 6 players on our rookie list.
We have delisted 3 (Crocker, Taylor, Wilson).

Cat A rookie lists will be 0-4 next year, so that's 0-1 position available.
Cat B rookie lists will be 0-3, so that's 0-3 positions available.

*** Note that there are minimum & maximum total list sizes (senior + Cat A rookie + Cat B rookie):
minimum total list size = 37
maximum total list size = 44
Click to expand...
beat me to the punch, also did a better job explaining than I could,
 
It doesn't look like we will pick Edwards . F/S is one of footballs great traditions. I hope he reflects back on this in years to come as an opportunity missed.
I am looking forward to having Borlase though. Looks and sounds like the type of player we want.
 
Eagleboy2011 said:
It doesn't look like we will pick Edwards . F/S is one of footballs great traditions. I hope he reflects back on this in years to come as an opportunity missed.
I am looking forward to having Borlase though. Looks and sounds like the type of player we want.
Click to expand...
It's all on Luke and the family IMO.
 
Eagleboy2011 said:
It doesn't look like we will pick Edwards . F/S is one of footballs great traditions. I hope he reflects back on this in years to come as an opportunity missed.
I am looking forward to having Borlase though. Looks and sounds like the type of player we want.
Click to expand...
Edwards may struggle to get an AFL gig anywhere, other than as a rookie.

On SM-A908B using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Johnny Rutten said:
On the topic of list management... This ladder gives you an inkling as to how inexperienced our list is, especially in comparison to others. We really are at Ground Zero.

p.s. I've included Hately in our squad figures.

View attachment 1011882
Click to expand...

That table tells a really interesting story and very much fits with where we're at. A team that had a very stable best 22 for a 5-8 year period, with a focus on "continuity" and "experience" over blooding youth. You then factor in that a significant portion of the talent that we did bring on during this period, has since left the club (ie B.Crouch, Lever, McGovern, Cameron, Atkins, Greenwood, Keath). Also worth noting that Tippett sanctions play a part as players drafted in this period would be in the 100-200 game range.

I think most telling and representative of our approach to players over the past 4-5 years is the <25game group, when compared to the 25-100 game group. 6 players total in the two groups, where the average in each group is 8 and 5.

Give it 2 years and I think the table would have largely corrected itself. We have to keep providing opportunities though, whilst you need some experience around these young players, the only way they gain experience is by being played.
 

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Eagleboy2011 said:
It doesn't look like we will pick Edwards . F/S is one of footballs great traditions. I hope he reflects back on this in years to come as an opportunity missed.
I am looking forward to having Borlase though. Looks and sounds like the type of player we want.
Click to expand...

Personally I'm not too fussed, he appears a solid player, but end of the day, at best he might warrant a bid in late 20's, likely later though. Its the father sons that go 1st round that are the big ones for clubs these days.

Borlase is the one I'm keen on, we've just lost Hartigan, Talia's in the twilight of his career, I like all 3 of McAsey, Butts and Worrell, however I think when replacing KPP's you need an element of "scatergun" as there's a reasonable failure rate. If you end up with too many, they can then collect reasonable value on the trade table.

Newchurch I'm similarly not too fussed about, talented, I could be wrong, but he appears such a long way off AFL standard in terms of match play, consistency of effort and professionalism. Sometimes you need to bite the bullet on these types, but to me he screams later ND or better rookie prospect.
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
Calling Davis a sunk cost is a fallacy.

Looked handy in round 1 & never got another look in... but may again with Stengle suspension.
Click to expand...
Was so-so in round one.

He never really showed that much in the SANFL, and has had one good and a few more mediocre AFL games. Any time spent invested in him is a waste.
 
Mego Red said:
Was so-so in round one.

He never really showed that much in the SANFL, and has had one good and a few more mediocre AFL games. Any time spent invested in him is a waste.
Click to expand...
He's played 2 games, and was probably our most dangerous forward.
 
Johnny Rutten said:
On the topic of list management... This ladder gives you an inkling as to how inexperienced our list is, especially in comparison to others. We really are at Ground Zero.

p.s. I've included Hately in our squad figures.

View attachment 1011882
Click to expand...
Would be interested to see this with another column for average age as Doggies experience is a lot higher than I feel their age would be.

Ours obviously hurts as we've cut our list harder than others, having up to 8 players less than a couple of teams for example.
 
Mego Red said:
Was so-so in round one.

He never really showed that much in the SANFL, and has had one good and a few more mediocre AFL games. Any time spent invested in him is a waste.
Click to expand...
That is totally incorrect, Davis showed plenty in the SANFL, some seriously good aerial ability and always looked dangerous whenever around the ball.....but as has always been his biggest problem he would go missing for stretches of games too often. But to say "he never really showed that much in the SANFL" is miles off the mark, why do you think the coaches and list management have persevered with Ben for this long?
 
Mego Red said:
Was so-so in round one.

He never really showed that much in the SANFL, and has had one good and a few more mediocre AFL games. Any time spent invested in him is a waste.
Click to expand...
We clearly are going to disagree.
 

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Mutineer said:
That is totally incorrect, Davis showed plenty in the SANFL, some seriously good aerial ability and always looked dangerous whenever around the ball.....but as has always been his biggest problem he would go missing for stretches of games too often. But to say "he never really showed that much in the SANFL" is miles off the mark, why do you think the coaches and list management have persevered with Ben for this long?
Click to expand...
It's not totally incorrect, Bicks.

He HASN'T shown that much. He's shown the occasional tease that says he could amount to something, but then he will disappear for quarters at a time.

He's a complete invention of this board - there's a bit of flash but nothing reliable enough to play a role in a successful team.
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
We clearly are going to disagree.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. It's just an opinion.

From where I was sitting, he touched the ball five time the entire day and just didn't get involved enough.

He's been on the list for five years, and so far he has a grand total of 12 possessions in his entire AFL career.
 
Mego Red said:
It's not totally incorrect, Bicks.

He HASN'T shown that much. He's shown the occasional tease that says he could amount to something, but then he will disappear for quarters at a time.

He's a complete invention of this board - there's a bit of flash but nothing reliable enough to play a role in a successful team.
Click to expand...
I'm basing my opinion on what I've actually seen plenty of in the SANFL and I doubt there's anyone that watches SANFL would agree with your assessment "Kristof"....consistency during games is his biggest weakness along with his body letting itself down with stress injury issues that have cost him some serious time away from playing since joining our list.
 
James_37 said:
That table tells a really interesting story and very much fits with where we're at. A team that had a very stable best 22 for a 5-8 year period, with a focus on "continuity" and "experience" over blooding youth. You then factor in that a significant portion of the talent that we did bring on during this period, has since left the club (ie B.Crouch, Lever, McGovern, Cameron, Atkins, Greenwood, Keath). Also worth noting that Tippett sanctions play a part as players drafted in this period would be in the 100-200 game range.

I think most telling and representative of our approach to players over the past 4-5 years is the <25game group, when compared to the 25-100 game group. 6 players total in the two groups, where the average in each group is 8 and 5.

Give it 2 years and I think the table would have largely corrected itself. We have to keep providing opportunities though, whilst you need some experience around these young players, the only way they gain experience is by being played.
Click to expand...

For me the biggest disparity in that table is the 50-100 games played figure of 2 – we let go of Riley Knight (55) and Brad Crouch (95), leaving us with whipping boy Jake Kelly (90) and Wayne Milera (62) who was injured all year.

Our age distribution just seems so out of step with every other club (even clubs like Freo/GWS who have a similar number of 0-25 game players have more 50+ players). The Tippet penalties didn’t help, nor did our stubborn adherence to a selection policy based on continuity/experience and the attitude that if we make the 8 anything can happen. It’s going to take a while for those sub 25 gamer to come through, so we’re going to be in for a few bad seasons.
 
LiquidCrow said:
For me the biggest disparity in that table is the 50-100 games played figure of 2 – we let go of Riley Knight (55) and Brad Crouch (95), leaving us with whipping boy Jake Kelly (90) and Wayne Milera (62) who was injured all year.

Our age distribution just seems so out of step with every other club (even clubs like Freo/GWS who have a similar number of 0-25 game players have more 50+ players). The Tippet penalties didn’t help, nor did our stubborn adherence to a selection policy based on continuity/experience and the attitude that if we make the 8 anything can happen. It’s going to take a while for those sub 25 gamer to come through, so we’re going to be in for a few bad seasons.
Click to expand...
Whose fault is that. We had a massive opportunity last year and to some extent introduced a few but we could not resist list cloggers and we sign up DM and we will play him. We actually done a backflip from Phil Walsh's edict to get as many games into young players to Pyke's plan to play all the oldies and resigning them to long term contracts.
 
LiquidCrow said:
For me the biggest disparity in that table is the 50-100 games played figure of 2 – we let go of Riley Knight (55) and Brad Crouch (95), leaving us with whipping boy Jake Kelly (90) and Wayne Milera (62) who was injured all year.

Our age distribution just seems so out of step with every other club (even clubs like Freo/GWS who have a similar number of 0-25 game players have more 50+ players). The Tippet penalties didn’t help, nor did our stubborn adherence to a selection policy based on continuity/experience and the attitude that if we make the 8 anything can happen. It’s going to take a while for those sub 25 gamer to come through, so we’re going to be in for a few bad seasons.
Click to expand...
It’s also the age group where we’ve lost a lot of players like Lever, Cameron, McGovern and gave away Lyons etc
 

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