List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Academy, Contracts, Trading & Draft

Giant Strides · Sep 30, 2021

Some more trade and draft resources. Courtesy of Lore.

Key Off-Season Dates
This is a comprehensive list including dates for draft combines, list lodgements, delisted free agency windows and return to train dates. I had to collate these from three different club websites because the AFL is lazy af and doesn't have it on their website, so thought it might be helpful to share:

AFL TRADE, DRAFT AND FREE AGENCY DATES 2021

AFL TRADE, DRAFT AND FREE AGENCY DATES 2021

Grand Final
Saturday September 25

Draft Combine – Vic Country
Friday October 1

Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
Wednesday October 3 - Friday October 15

Trade Period (picks and players)
Monday October 4 (9am) – Wednesday October 13 (7.30pm)

Draft Combines (States and Regions)
VM: Saturday October 9 (tbc)
Qld: Sunday October 10
Tas: Monday October 11
SA: Saturday October 16
WA: Sunday October 17
NSW & ACT: tbc
NT: will join SA or Qld

Trade Period (picks only)
Monday October 18 – Monday November 15

List Lodgement 1
Friday October 29

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
Wednesday November 3 – Tuesday November 9

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
Wednesday November 10

Delisted Free Agency Window 3
Thursday November 11 – Monday November 15

AFL Pre-Season Commences (First to fourth year players)
Monday November 22

National Draft
Round 1: Wednesday November 24 (7pm)
Round 2–end: Thursday November 25 (7pm)

Preseason and Rookie Drafts
Friday November 26 (3.20pm)

Final List Lodgement
Monday November 29

Pre-Season Commences (All other players)
Monday December 6

Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP)
December - March (tbc)

Pre-Season Christmas Break
Sunday December 19 - Sunday January 9

Draft Order & Future Pick Tracker

FAQs & Resources Thread

It has an index at the top with threadmarks so it's easy to find what you're looking for – or easier than scrolling through 250 pages of AFL Rules, Regulations and CBA pdfs anyway.

These sorts of questions are all answered along with a bunch of other resources made by posters from across BigFooty (feel free to add to it!):

Resource - FAQs: Rules, Regulations and Resources for Player Movements in the AFL

List sizes Club age and height profiles Salary cap information Trading rules including salary dumps Father/son & academy draft bids Free agency compensation formula & more

www.bigfooty.com

GWS List Summary

Senior List

33: 36 less delisted Shipley & Hutchesson, delisted Wehr (to be reselected in rookie draft), traded Finlayson, plus DFA signing of Brander. 3 to 5 spots available at ND.

1 Phil Davis - 2022
2 Jacob Hopper - 2023
3 Stephen Coniglio - 2026
4 Toby Greene - 2026
5 Tanner Bruhn - 2022
6 Lachie Whitfield - 2027
7 Lachlan Ash - 2023
8 Callan Ward - 2022
9 Ryan Angwin - 2022
10 Jacob Wehr - 2022 [delisted with an agreement to select in the rookie draft]
11 Brayden Preuss - 2023
12 Tom Green - 2023
13 Isaac Cumming - 2022
14 Tim Taranto - 2022
15 Sam Taylor - 2025
16 Brent Daniels - 2025
18 Conor Stone - 2024
19 Nick Haynes - 2024
22 Josh Kelly - 2029
23 Jesse Hogan - 2022
24 Matthew De Boer - 2022
25 Lachlan Keeffe - 2022
26 Jake Riccardi - 2023
27 Harry Himmelberg - 2023
29 Cam Fleeton - 2022
30 Matt Flynn - 2023
32 Kieran Briggs - 2022
33 Xavier O'Halloran - 2022
36 Harry Perryman - 2022
37 Ian Hill - 2022
39 Connor Idun - 2022
40 Adam Kennedy - 2022
44 Jack Buckley - 2022

+ Jarrod Brander - 2022 (selected in first DFA window)

Rookie List - A

4: 7 less delisted Reid & Buntine, retired Shane Mumford. 0 to 2 spots available for rookie draft.

28 Zach Sproule - 2022
38 Daniel Lloyd - 2022
42 Jake Stein - 2022
45 James Peatling - 2022

Rookie List - B

2: full

35 Will Shaw - 2022
46 Callum M Brown - 2022 (Irish international rookie, extended 1 year under COVID rules)

Danny88 · Jul 24, 2021

GWS Goose said:
Mid range contracts that every club has heaps on.

Do you think hopper will re-sign on a mid range contract? His stats this year are better than dusty/danger/Fyfe at this stage of threat career

I reckon he will want a pay day

Ichabod Noodle · Jul 24, 2021

Danny88 said:
Do you think hopper will re-sign on a mid range contract? His stats this year are better than dusty/danger/Fyfe at this stage of threat career

I reckon he will want a pay day

as Toby has pointed out, quite a few players have left for a “pay-day” and regretted it.

Maybe Jacob is sitting there, looking at what has gone before, and says to himself “maybe I’ll take the (still largish) mid-range contract and stay where I enjoy it rather than follow in the footsteps of all those friends of mine who are regretting it.

PMBangers · Jul 24, 2021

This is the fun of list management and taking so many good players in the draft, we're always going to lose players.
As much as it pains me to say, we could probably afford to lose an inside ball winner with our depth and quality overall, it becomes about who you rate highest out of Green, Hopper and Taranto. Personally I wouldn't be against looking to turn Hopper into a first rounder and a decent POD player from another club in the same age bracket, preferably a midfielder with some pace and skill, or a pressure forward

Pres · Jul 24, 2021

PMBangers said:
This is the fun of list management and taking so many good players in the draft, we're always going to lose players.
As much as it pains me to say, we could probably afford to lose an inside ball winner with our depth and quality overall, it becomes about who you rate highest out of Green, Hopper and Taranto. Personally I wouldn't be against looking to turn Hopper into a first rounder and a decent POD player from another club in the same age bracket, preferably a midfielder with some pace and skill, or a pressure forward

Would it be fair to say if Taranto was out of contract this year he'd be the one they might be happy to trade back to a Vic club?

Seems unfortunately Hopper is the one whose number is up at the wrong time.

PMBangers · Jul 24, 2021

Pres said:
Would it be fair to say if Taranto was out of contract this year he'd be the one they might be happy to trade back to a Vic club?

Seems unfortunately Hopper is the one whose number is up at the wrong time.

If I had to choose two to keep it'd be Hopper and Green. When we had the TT to saints rumours last year I was happy with that idea if it got us a Clark or Marshall for example, so I'd be hoping for something like that for Hopper if he left, probably more given Hopper is in better form than TT was

GWS Goose · Jul 24, 2021

PMBangers said:
If I had to choose two to keep it'd be Hopper and Green. When we had the TT to saints rumours last year I was happy with that idea if it got us a Clark or Marshall for example, so I'd be hoping for something like that for Hopper if he left, probably more given Hopper is in better form than TT was

I would like to keep both.
I think we are a lot closer than others do.
Given the injury run this year, I think we have been ok.
No doubt there has been some disappointing moments.
I wouldnt want to be trading away ready to go players for more talented kids.

PMBangers · Jul 24, 2021

GWS Goose said:
I would like to keep both.
I think we are a lot closer than others do.
Given the injury run this year, I think we have been ok.
No doubt there has been some disappointing moments.
I wouldnt want to be trading away ready to go players for more talented kids.

I think in this specific scenario, a Hunter Clark improves us more than anything in exchange for an inside mid

GWS Goose · Jul 24, 2021

PMBangers said:
I think in this specific scenario, a Hunter Clark improves us more than anything in exchange for an inside mid

If we traded player for player that better suited needs, I could handle.
I don't want to lose Hopper though.

Orange Agent · Jul 24, 2021

With Buckley and Keefe LTI for most of next season how do we approach list spots? We have 36 main listers which lets us play rookies and saves cap space. The current rookie list is Bunts, Sproule, Mummy, Reid, Lloyd, Stein and Peatling with Brown and Shaw as cat B's. Sproule, Reid and Lloyd are still regulars but are probably safe being offered a main list spot from anybody else so can stay there or do we go to 38 which is really 36 at Rd 1 2022. With two top 10's and a 3rd at mid 40's (this pick has good points value for a club like Collingwood) we need to make minimum 3 changes. OOC' are Phil (safe), Hopper, Hutchesson (delist/rookie), Kelly, Hogan (safe), Riccardi, Flynn (safe), Shipley (rookie). I like Shipley but he just won't get a spot in our midfield, Kelly and Hopper are must keeps but it's ultimately their decision. Riccardi may have some currency and it's probably time to make a choice between him or Sproule. Our only chance of bringing in ready made players is main list spots so unless Fleeting or maybe Stone could cover for KPD depth finding a one year replacement maybe difficult. It looks like a player like Narkle could be pretty cheap if he wanted to make the move. Not a lot of Keefe like options around to plug a hole for a year or 2.

Giant Strides · Jul 24, 2021

I agree that Keeffe & Buckley's LTIs create a problem for us in regards the list. Last year AFL introduced the mechanism of being able to drop players from the main list onto the rookie list without needing to actually send them via the rookie draft - if that is replicated this year, then I'd suggest we could do that with one or both players as they pretty much won't play for us all season. I presume that if they are put onto the LTI list at the start of next year, we could replace them via the pre-season supplemental selection in about February. However, there's a limited set of players available to select at that point - but we could use it for guys that no-one else is likely to select, such as Reid, and possibly Shipley. i.e. de-list them with a plan to re-select in PSSS.

We know that we'll have 2 first round picks, plus a match for Josh Fahey likely in the first or early second round, so part of the list strategy will be around the number of picks we have or want to have, and managing the issue around having two KPDs unavailable.

I'd agree that we should delist Tom Hutchesson - his injuries have never allowed us to see his true potential, but as an over-aged player, I don't think we can afford to waste a list spot for any longer. Like others, I like Shipley for both his attitude and that he's from Western Sydney, but I cannot see him cracking our midfield permanently. He could be in contention for a permanent VFL spot, but for now could retain a spot on the rookie list (Cat A though, not B), and hence be an option via that PSSS as we manipulate the list. The problem will be around the total list size and how we deal with the two LTIs.

Supposedly Mumford is going to retire, and I'd also delist Matt Buntine, but I'm not confident that the club will see it the same way - especially as he's considered a tall and we've just lost two to LTI!

There's a chance that we lose one of Kelly and Hopper, and possibly Riccardi gets a better offer, though I'd be keeping him personally (his two years on the list have been severely impacted by COVID, and we need to give him more time and opportunity).

in summary, my thoughts:

Main list - currently 36 (allowed 36-38): off - Hutchesson (delisted), Shipley (delisted - possible PSSS) = EOY 34 / available spots in ND = 2 (min) - 4 (max)
* presumes we keep all of Kelly, Hopper & Riccardi

Rookie list - currently 7 A (incl MSD Peatling) & 2 B: off - Buntine, Mumford, Reid (possible PSSS) - all delisted; = EOY 4 A + 2 B

Total = 34 + 4 + 2 = 40 / available = 4 spots; once two go on LTI list = 6 spots available.

So, 3 of those would be our two first round picks + Fahey in the ND; then Reid & Shipley via PSSS onto the rookie list. Allows one additional selection - could be a FA, a PSD or another PSSS (or of course very late ND or rookie draft) onto either the main list or rookie list. Presuming that we select a tall such as Josh Gibcus in the ND, I'd like to hope we'd get an experienced KPD or at least someone slightly more advanced than an 18 year old KPD (e.g. Blake Schlensog).

Danny88 · Jul 25, 2021

Giant Strides said:
I agree that Keeffe & Buckley's LTIs create a problem for us in regards the list. Last year AFL introduced the mechanism of being able to drop players from the main list onto the rookie list without needing to actually send them via the rookie draft - if that is replicated this year, then I'd suggest we could do that with one or both players as they pretty much won't play for us all season. I presume that if they are put onto the LTI list at the start of next year, we could replace them via the pre-season supplemental selection in about February. However, there's a limited set of players available to select at that point - but we could use it for guys that no-one else is likely to select, such as Reid, and possibly Shipley. i.e. de-list them with a plan to re-select in PSSS.

We know that we'll have 2 first round picks, plus a match for Josh Fahey likely in the first or early second round, so part of the list strategy will be around the number of picks we have or want to have, and managing the issue around having two KPDs unavailable.

I'd agree that we should delist Tom Hutchesson - his injuries have never allowed us to see his true potential, but as an over-aged player, I don't think we can afford to waste a list spot for any longer. Like others, I like Shipley for both his attitude and that he's from Western Sydney, but I cannot see him cracking our midfield permanently. He could be in contention for a permanent VFL spot, but for now could retain a spot on the rookie list (Cat A though, not B), and hence be an option via that PSSS as we manipulate the list. The problem will be around the total list size and how we deal with the two LTIs.

Supposedly Mumford is going to retire, and I'd also delist Matt Buntine, but I'm not confident that the club will see it the same way - especially as he's considered a tall and we've just lost two to LTI!

There's a chance that we lose one of Kelly and Hopper, and possibly Riccardi gets a better offer, though I'd be keeping him personally (his two years on the list have been severely impacted by COVID, and we need to give him more time and opportunity).

in summary, my thoughts:

Main list - currently 36 (allowed 36-38): off - Hutchesson (delisted), Shipley (delisted - possible PSSS) = EOY 34 / available spots in ND = 2 (min) - 4 (max)
* presumes we keep all of Kelly, Hopper & Riccardi

Rookie list - currently 7 A (incl MSD Peatling) & 2 B: off - Buntine, Mumford, Reid (possible PSSS) - all delisted; = EOY 4 A + 2 B

Total = 34 + 4 + 2 = 40 / available = 4 spots; once two go on LTI list = 6 spots available.

So, 3 of those would be our two first round picks + Fahey in the ND; then Reid & Shipley via PSSS onto the rookie list. Allows one additional selection - could be a FA, a PSD or another PSSS (or of course very late ND or rookie draft) onto either the main list or rookie list. Presuming that we select a tall such as Josh Gibcus in the ND, I'd like to hope we'd get an experienced KPD or at least someone slightly more advanced than an 18 year old KPD (e.g. Blake Schlensog).

So you want two KPD in the draft?

PMBangers · Jul 25, 2021

Danny88 said:
So you want two KPD in the draft?

It makes sense to look at getting a more ready made KPD and a development piece for where we're at currently, given we're light on depth even if we revert to the two KPD's + Haynes with the injuries to Keeffe and Buckley. It's one position I'd be ok with trading or targeting an FA for even if their 28/29, someone like Daniel Talia as an FA would be pretty good for us as a stop gap whilst we have injuries, but only if we pair it with drafting a younger guy who can develop in the role. Without looking too deeply at other teams lists I doubt we'd find a younger KPD worth bringing in either, unless we could convince Weitering to come up.

PMBangers · Jul 25, 2021

I've been thinking more and more about trade strategy in general for this off season, and the more I review notes/ vision of the draft prospects the less confident I am that our second first rounder is going to be worth holding onto, if we could trade it for a future first rounder and a 2021 second I'd jump on that straight away. Removing Daicos and Darcy as they're club linked, Callaghan, Goater, Gibcus and Erasmus are the only guys I'd really get excited about picking up, I'm also a fan of getting a few of the next group like; Sinn, Chesser, Sonsie, Johnson and Andrew, but with how little exposure VIC kids have gotten, and the increasing likelihood of there not being a champs, I reckon the 10-30 range will see some significant sliders.

On top of this, next year looks good early on across a range of positions, one in particular that'd suit us is Elijah Tsatas who looks a likely top end pick

Danny88 · Jul 25, 2021

PMBangers said:
It makes sense to look at getting a more ready made KPD and a development piece for where we're at currently, given we're light on depth even if we revert to the two KPD's + Haynes with the injuries to Keeffe and Buckley. It's one position I'd be ok with trading or targeting an FA for even if their 28/29, someone like Daniel Talia as an FA would be pretty good for us as a stop gap whilst we have injuries, but only if we pair it with drafting a younger guy who can develop in the role. Without looking too deeply at other teams lists I doubt we'd find a younger KPD worth bringing in either, unless we could convince Weitering to come up.

Jake Stein 195 cm
Idun 191 cm
Taylor 196 cm
Riccardi (could be pushed back?) 195 cm
Buckley 194cm (inj)

Add in older heads
Davis 197 cm
Keefe 204 cm (inj)

I reckon thats 7 players that can play on Key positions...

For young defenders I really think we are sorted... Esp if we get another one in the draft (which I think we should and will)

PMBangers · Jul 25, 2021

Danny88 said:
Jake Stein 195 cm
Idun 191 cm
Taylor 196 cm
Riccardi (could be pushed back?) 195 cm
Buckley 194cm (inj)

Add in older heads
Davis 197 cm
Keefe 204 cm (inj)

I reckon thats 7 players that can play on Key positions...

For young defenders I really think we are sorted... Esp if we get another one in the draft (which I think we should and will)

191 cm isn't enough for a Key Position player anymore unless you're a supreme athlete which I don't think Idun is. Riccardi I don't think would work down back at AFL level but couldn't hurt to try, especially as he isn't clear best 22 as a forward currently. Stein is servicable depth, but I don't think anyone would be thrilled with him being one of our starting key defenders currently

Buckley I like, and I think makes it, suits the age profile of what we need well, but it leaves us with two AFL level KPD's in 3 years when Keeffe and Davis are gone, not enough insurance for my liking there

dlanod · Jul 25, 2021

PMBangers said:
191 cm isn't enough for a Key Position player anymore unless you're a supreme athlete which I don't think Idun is.

Haynes is 193 cm.
Grimes is 193 cm.
Rampe is 188 cm.
Jonas is 188 cm.

You can get away with being shorter as a defender especially if you've got taller mates to avoid the complete mismatches and you play smart enough. Idun showed out ok this year, which is better than many others. I don't think he's a sure thing by any means, but I think he has the potential to be a future second defender behind Taylor - as did Buckley.

Giant Strides · Jul 25, 2021

Danny88 said:
So you want two KPD in the draft?

Two total, yes; but only one in the draft, the other someone with more experience via other means (PSD, DFA, trade, PSSS).

As per the exchange with PMBangers, we really only have 6 serviceable KPDs (Davis, Taylor, Keeffe, Buckley, Haynes & Stein). Idun, Buntine, Fleeton are not really that height. 2 of the 6 are injured long term, and 2 will be gone in a couple of years. Riccardi we can try, but there's no guarantee, and possibly he's more likely to take Haynes' intercepting role from what we saw this year. Haynes is not a 1st or 2nd KPD, and Stein is just an injury back-up.

So yes, one long term prospect from the ND, and one other more experienced back-up - could be just a short-term prospect, or someone with a little more upside noting the ages of Davis & Keeffe.

Without that, we start next year with Davis/Taylor/Haynes and Stein/draftee as the backup, with other ''fill-in'' options such as Riccardi (if we don't lose him) and Idun. If we lose Davis early, then Stein's our season-long option - not a good prospect IMHO.

I reckon not getting two leaves us extremely exposed.

Maximus 2011 · Jul 26, 2021

Harry Himmelberg

Alright guys not sure how this will be received but I see Harry Himmelberg's best position as a key back next year. He is losing a lot of confidence in front of goals and regularly gets out marked in our forward line usually giving the opposition a drive from our forward line which quite often results in a score for the opposition.
He has been a real warrior up forward for us and works his guts out. But, I think sending him back as a key post in replace of Davis (who was horribly beaten by a dinosaur in Hooker and could quite possibly be injured for a while) will actually take some pressure off the guy. I think he will really thrive and even give us some drive once we have won the ball back. This would allow us to give Riccardi and Hogan a chance to show if they can work together in our forward line. Riccardi really presents at the ball and is a natural forward.
This would solve our issue of lack of tall defenders until Buckley and possibly Keefe comes back toward the end of 2022. I hope we draft Gibcus and a pacy mid. If we lose Kelly or Hopper I hope we trade the resulting likely top 10 draft pick we would receive as compensation in to next years draft. We have a lot of young talent on our list and bringing in 2 top liners this year plus Fahey will only bring our quality talent of under 21's to around 12! We don't want to be paying them all top dollar once their drafting contract is up. This is why I think we need to trade into the future.
Let's hope Preuss can get off the injury list next year.

Danny88 · Jul 26, 2021

Maximus 2011 said:
Harry Himmelberg

Alright guys not sure how this will be received but I see Harry Himmelberg's best position as a key back next year. He is losing a lot of confidence in front of goals and regularly gets out marked in our forward line usually giving the opposition a drive from our forward line which quite often results in a score for the opposition.
He has been a real warrior up forward for us and works his guts out. But, I think sending him back as a key post in replace of Davis (who was horribly beaten by a dinosaur in Hooker and could quite possibly be injured for a while) will actually take some pressure off the guy. I think he will really thrive and even give us some drive once we have won the ball back. This would allow us to give Riccardi and Hogan a chance to show if they can work together in our forward line. Riccardi really presents at the ball and is a natural forward.
This would solve our issue of lack of tall defenders until Buckley and possibly Keefe comes back toward the end of 2022. I hope we draft Gibcus and a pacy mid. If we lose Kelly or Hopper I hope we trade the resulting likely top 10 draft pick we would receive as compensation in to next years draft. We have a lot of young talent on our list and bringing in 2 top liners this year plus Fahey will only bring our quality talent of under 21's to around 12! We don't want to be paying them all top dollar once their drafting contract is up. This is why I think we need to trade into the future.
Let's hope Preuss can get off the injury list next year.

You are on drugs mate

He is our second highest goal kicker. To put it perspective Hipwood was only injured last week but he is one goal behind him in the coleman. I bet nobody in the Brisbane supporter base is jumping up and down trying ot get hipwood reclassed as a defender!

dlanod · Jul 26, 2021

Danny88 said:
I bet nobody in the Brisbane supporter base is jumping up and down trying ot get hipwood reclassed as a defender!

Depends on the week. Not even kidding.

Giant Pete · Jul 26, 2021

If Kelly leaves and goes to North… and we match the contract. Could we end up with pick 1… then collingwood pick… pick 2???

Giant Strides · Jul 26, 2021

Giant Pete said:
If Kelly leaves and goes to North… and we match the contract. Could we end up with pick 1… then collingwood pick… pick 2???

No.

B4Bear · Jul 26, 2021

Please re-sign Kelly. If for no other reason than the messiah seekers on our board STFU.

Colonial · Jul 26, 2021

B4Bear said:
Please re-sign Kelly. If for no other reason than the messiah seekers on our board STFU.

We are trying.
As an aside I note you think Kelly isn’t loyal in that thread that keeps on giving.
In what way?

Maximus 2011 · Jul 26, 2021

Danny88 said:
You are on drugs mate

He is our second highest goal kicker. To put it perspective Hipwood was only injured last week but he is one goal behind him in the coleman. I bet nobody in the Brisbane supporter base is jumping up and down trying ot get hipwood reclassed as a defender!

Alright well put this in to perspective. If Collingwood played Darcy Moore as a forward still do you think he would be able to kick 25 goals (Harry's goal kicking tally as far this year)? My guess is he would have 30+ but he is more valuable down back. Anyway just putting it out there. Thanks for your feedback although irrelevant. Sometimes we just have to think out of the square.

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