List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

George · Aug 22, 2021

Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

www.bigfooty.com

pebblesofsand · Jun 7, 2021

Browny2Carlisle said:
One is a freak and was undoubtedly the best talent in his draft pool. He's being kept out of a very good side.
The other was a total unknown.
Poulter was exactly what we needed, the best available and what 95% of people wanted and he's proving why.
Allison can't get a touch in the 2s and the overwhelming response to his drafting was "who?". Hope he proves me wrong but the kids chances are quite low.

Let's revisit this in 2 years when JUH is starring and allison is delisted

"Let's revisit this in 2 years when we can make a meaningful comparison." EFA

Yeah total unknown.

Early Mail: Who YOUR club is considering drafting in the first round of the AFL Draft

AFL mock draft: How every pick in the first round could play out

www.foxsports.com.au

Browny2Carlisle · Jun 7, 2021

pebblesofsand said:
"Let's revisit this in 2 years when we can make a meaningful comparison." EFA

Yeah total unknown.

Early Mail: Who YOUR club is considering drafting in the first round of the AFL Draft

AFL mock draft: How every pick in the first round could play out

www.foxsports.com.au

You can actually make a meaningful comparison now. It just doesn't suit your narrative.

StCicatriz · Jun 7, 2021

Connorn99 · Jun 7, 2021

Browny2Carlisle said:
One is a freak and was undoubtedly the best talent in his draft pool. He's being kept out of a very good side.
The other was a total unknown.
Poulter was exactly what we needed, the best available and what 95% of people wanted and he's proving why.
Allison can't get a touch in the 2s and the overwhelming response to his drafting was "who?". Hope he proves me wrong but the kids chances are quite low.

Let's revisit this in 2 years when JUH is starring and allison is delisted

Allison is an 18 year old developing key forward who hadn't played for 18 months prior to get drafted due to the Covid situation. Give him bloody time

Diehard Saint · Jun 7, 2021

Pardon me said:
Clav is literally 2 games in....

…amd Connolly hasn’t even played.
I mean he’s been on the list for uh, less than a season.

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water

Atomboy · Jun 7, 2021

pebblesofsand said:
"Let's revisit this in 2 years when we can make a meaningful comparison." EFA

Yeah total unknown.

Early Mail: Who YOUR club is considering drafting in the first round of the AFL Draft

AFL mock draft: How every pick in the first round could play out

www.foxsports.com.au

Maybe they just put one entry in every year to see which club they can suck in ?!.

Browny2Carlisle · Jun 7, 2021

Connorn99 said:
Allison is an 18 year old developing key forward who hadn't played for 18 months prior to get drafted due to the Covid situation. Give him bloody time

Mate no one's saying not to give him time. But far out it's ok to admit the club gets things wrong sometimes. And we have a poor track record with draft decisions. This seems like another one.

gringo2011 · Jun 7, 2021

StCicatriz said:

At least my constant negativity wasn't a form of paranoid delusion. Jack Steven probably unlucky to not be AA at least once. Not sure but Lynch, Cripps and Mc Evoy probably all were on the AA long list potentially.

StCicatriz · Jun 7, 2021

gringo2011 said:
At least my constant negativity wasn't a form of paranoid delusion. Jack Steven probably unlucky to not be AA at least once. Not sure but Lynch, Cripps and Mc Evoy probably all were on the AA long list potentially.

I remember you posting on trouts inefficiency and remember thinking you were wrong. Now I look back and you were absolutely spot on.

Diehard Saint · Jun 7, 2021

Browny2Carlisle said:
Mate no one's saying not to give him time.

Browny2Carlisle said:
…. This seems like another one.

Contradicted yourself in the space of three sentences.

saintsmania · Jun 7, 2021

That is one worrying stat..maybe show it to the club CEO so investment can be made in our recruiting..

StCicatriz said:

Browny2Carlisle · Jun 7, 2021

Diehard Saint said:
Contradicted yourself in the space of three sentences.

That's not a contradiction. It's got nothing to do with Allison and all to do with our drafting as a club.

FootyMaster11 · Jun 7, 2021

StCicatriz said:

As someone who is fairly young, it's absolutely crazy for me to think, that for over 95% of my life, we haven't drafted an All Australian.

pebblesofsand · Jun 7, 2021

Browny2Carlisle said:
You can actually make a meaningful comparison now. It just doesn't suit your narrative.

No - you're wrong - its not my narrative it doesn't suit - its my understanding of logic.

In order to make meaningful comparisons you need to be comparing like for like - not comparing apples and oranges (especially if you've never seen the apple).

Diehard Saint · Jun 7, 2021

Browny2Carlisle said:
That's not a contradiction. It's got nothing to do with Allison and all to do with our drafting as a club.

I understood that as you saying we should give him time, but in the next breath you’re already saying it seems he’s not going to make it.

How is that giving him time? You’re saying it looks like a poor draft decision already after half a season?

Browny2Carlisle · Jun 7, 2021

pebblesofsand said:
No - you're wrong - its not my narrative it doesn't suit - its my understanding of logic.

In order to make meaningful comparisons you need to be comparing like for like - not comparing apples and oranges (especially if you've never seen the apple).

Yes logically you're right. But just because he hasn't made it to afl level doesn't mean we haven't seen enough of him yet to start extrapolating based on vfl and pre-draft performance.

Tyrian Lonestar · Jun 7, 2021

StCicatriz said:

11men1cup · Jun 8, 2021

Carlton seems to be imploding.

I'd love Zac Fisher at the saints

On Pixel 4 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app

jwikked · Jun 8, 2021

StCicatriz said:

At least nobody is trying to poach our players lol

bird_man · Jun 8, 2021

pebblesofsand said:
No - you're wrong - its not my narrative it doesn't suit - its my understanding of logic.

In order to make meaningful comparisons you need to be comparing like for like - not comparing apples and oranges (especially if you've never seen the apple).

That is half the issue though.

We were desperate to draft an apple but instead we used another good pick on an orange.

Just so happens that there was a juicy ripened red apple there for the taking.

Maybe Allison does eventually end up a player, but it doesn't change the fact we desperately need to find quality mids and we've used one decent pick on a mid since 2015 (and we refuse to play him in the midfield)

Taking a project key forward with that pick had most of us confused at the time and it doesn't matter how many times people tell us we need to give the kid time (we all know hes going to take time) it's still a confusing pick.

People will have opinions on picks early, just like we did with Petracca and Bolton etc. We have a track record for not taking the obvious pick and it coming back to bite us in the arse unfortunately.

CursingFijian · Jun 8, 2021

FootyMaster11 said:
As someone who is fairly young, it's absolutely crazy for me to think, that for over 95% of my life, we haven't drafted an All Australian.

Settle in and get as comfy as possible. It’s a long, long ride.

stavro#4 · Jun 8, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I reckon Stavro has a pretty close relationship with the club and he seems to leak the stuff the club wants to put out there to minimise melts. He's been pretty strong on the Billings stuff which looks almost certain to happen and it's backed up by Mikka who also has close contacts at the club. Stavro's been pushing the Battle trade agenda saying it's the other player we can afford to lose. I expect the club is considering it based off that. I guess it depends on how close you see Stavro is to the club.

I think we are panicking after overrating our list this year and trying to get some draft currency to start to top up the youth quotas.

I know and knew people at different levels of the club.
I had a few mates in the Richo era that were players.
I still get info. But it’s not like it was where I could shoot a text and get the inside story. Now it’s more sporadic/inconsistent catch ups etc.

the Battle suggestion is because I’ve heard frustrations from both parties. Battle wants more of a genuine role - however he plays week in and out and his form has let him down this year.

club is trying to build a list - however they know they are short picks going forward to do what they need and want to do. They are confident they might have a hit up forward if needed on the list (they have drafted 2 in 6 months). This is less likely then likely. But it’s there

Billings - I’m hearing we are comfortably apart on finances during initial talks and he has suitors across the league. This makes the most sense and he really isn’t a key component to us winning or losing. He is a fantastic player to have when you have 4-5 stars and he can do what he wants with minimal attention. He won’t be a better player elsewhere but he will impact games more so - hopefully that makes sense.

ive seen the canary post above. If we go into next year with the same group back and all we add is a first rounder. We are deluded.

Secondly I’ve heard Frawley might be kept on. But that we are looking at the very fringes of the Suns and giants to fill out our list next year. Don’t mind this, would love to try get our hands on Brodie for dirt cheap.

lastly Hanners and the club are talking. There was a minor set back in the last week. Personal opinion. I think he is done and it’s his last year.

bird_man · Jun 8, 2021

stavro#4 said:
I know and knew people at different levels of the club.
I had a few mates in the Richo era that were players.
I still get info. But it’s not like it was where I could shoot a text and get the inside story. Now it’s more sporadic/inconsistent catch ups etc.

the Battle suggestion is because I’ve heard frustrations from both parties. Battle wants more of a genuine role - however he plays week in and out and his form has let him down this year.

club is trying to build a list - however they know they are short picks going forward to do what they need and want to do. They are confident they might have a hit up forward if needed on the list (they have drafted 2 in 6 months). This is less likely then likely. But it’s there

Surely I'm not the only one that would find this really strange list management?

So we used a good draft pick last year to bring in a lead up forward?

Then 12 months later we will look to trade out a lead up forward (with 4 years development) for a good draft pick?

So we would have traded out Bruce and Battle in thr space of 3 years. But we needed to use a good draft pick on a lead up forward last year...

StCicatriz · Jun 8, 2021

bird_man said:
That is half the issue though.

We were desperate to draft an apple but instead we used another good pick on an orange.

Just so happens that there was a juicy ripened red apple there for the taking.

Maybe Allison does eventually end up a player, but it doesn't change the fact we desperately need to find quality mids and we've used one decent pick on a mid since 2015 (and we refuse to play him in the midfield)

Taking a project key forward with that pick had most of us confused at the time and it doesn't matter how many times people tell us we need to give the kid time (we all know hes going to take time) it's still a confusing pick.

People will have opinions on picks early, just like we did with Petracca and Bolton etc. We have a track record for not taking the obvious pick and it coming back to bite us in the arse unfortunately.

out of all the issues we have had in recruitment, the Allen selection is such a minor issue. now it might be a symptom of a bigger issue here, which i am all ears to, but to single out this one draft selection and get so hung up on it, whilst ignoring everything else that has occurred is a bit unusual. it's like sitting in a burning house and complaining that someone burnt the toast!

on paper it's a late first round selection, but the problem is because of the inevitable explosion of the NGAs that end of first round pick, turned into pick 26!!!! people are more worked about this pick 26 than picks:

2012 Pick 12
2012 Pick 13
2014 Pick 1
2013 Pick 3
2013 Pick 18
2013 Pick 19
2016 Pick 10 -> 2017 Pick 7
2017 Pick 8
2019 Pick 6 -> 2019 Pick 12 & 18 -> 2019 Pick 10

that's a serious amount of round 1 selections where you should be getting a pretty decent return. some of those selections you should be hitting a decent midfielder in a dark room.

2012: Corr (14), Grundy (18)
2013: Bont (4), Sheed (11), Cripps (13)
2014: Petracca (2), Brayshaw (3), De Goey (5)
2016: Florent (11), Simpkin (12), Berry (17), SPP (18)
2017: Naughton (9, i remember getting laughed at for suggesting he should be a consideration), Tim Kelly (24), Liam Ryan (26 another one i was laughed at about), Taylor (28)
2019: Serong (Pick 8), Pickett (Pick 12), Weightman (Pick 15), Georgiades (Pick 18)

then you couple in the trade decisions 800k 5 year deal to Hanners who already had significant injury concerns with no real protection for the club if it went belly up after 2 seasons. the overs trading for Hill an outside player who was never going to address the issues inside. then you look at the players we did have, sending the contracted Bruce and Acres out for the cheap. Burning Goddard and McEvoy for picks only to completely blow em. don't get me started on the self-confessed "we over paid what we had and offered unders to players at other clubs" that was happening prior to 2018. i mean we couldn't find the money for goddard but we are sending 800k to hanners, does anyone not see the absolutely mind-numbing stupidity here (I get its two different list managers here but christ! we were defending them on goddard and now defending them on hanners)?

we are just churning too many chances here. at what point doesn't this turn into a bigger issue?

if you want to draw a line in the sand on Melbourne which the entire football industry regarded as dysfunctional and a recurring joke, the moment they started to turn the corner was the moment they stopped blowing picks. they got their football dept in order well before goodwin had any kind of system people might hard on about during match day. they went from torching picks and trades to just getting it consistently right.

remember when Brisbane couldn't retain players and people thought they were a joke... yeah they started to nail trading and drafting again!!!

how about the dogs, remember when we were always a walk up start to just be better than them. they got to a flag because they just nailed their picks. then they've continued to nail them. so much so that you hit a point where Sydney after a decade plus of playing nothing but money ball did a complete 180 and identified they needed to build through the draft. who do they go get, the dogs head recruiter. people think sydney should be spending a good 4-5 years down the bottom of the ladder and BANG! they're already back off the back of some good drafting.

we sit here in 2021 after kicking off a rebuild back in 2011 and then a fully-fledged rebuild in 2013 (that was when pelchen was running supporter info sessions explaining what they were on the path to doing) and we are still bemoaning at the lack of quality on the midfield. during the first iteration Gringo was highlighting that the recruitment wasn't that great. i remember him absolutely copping it, i was one who used to argue against his view. then in 2018 I'm getting a call from someone in the club outlining why Trout wasn't any good. some of the basics of the rebuild that were communicated to members were not even implemented (i.e. we have too many bad kicks in 2018 vs the we will draft only good kicks in 2013).

then you get to the list demographic, like you rightfully pointed out and surprise surprise there are not enough players under the age of 21.

what if the same delusions we had on Ameet & Trout are still there in 2021, it's just that the names have changed!!!!

at the end of the day the calls like Hill are recruitment decisions, because they happen it doesn't suddenly absolve the recruiters from any responsibility because they didn't go to the draft.

there's also the small matter that any large contracts like Hanners & Hill have to be ticked off by a list committee and then the president himself. something Summers informed supporters has to happen for deals above x $ valye. unless that somehow changed under bassat.

so at what point does the line in the sand at Melbourne occur at our club? at what point do supporters clue onto how bad the recruitment and development is? to the point there is a rebuild in how we draft and trade! because right now its not cutting it!

SIDE NOTE: who in the hell ticked off on the NGAs and why did our club ever think it was a good idea? i had warned would happen for years and years and no one cared, to the point a pick 1 went to a team playing finals and is now what top 2. oh and WCE suddenly have about a dozen players of draft quality this year alone!

Plugger_87 · Jun 8, 2021

StCicatriz said:
I remember you posting on trouts inefficiency and remember thinking you were wrong. Now I look back and you were absolutely spot on.

I remember you posting on McCartin prior to us drafting him as a 17 year old thinking you were wrong. Now i look back and you were absolutely spot on.

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