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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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StCicatriz said:
Yeh sorry don't mean to say they hate them. More saying what if they're just not very good at identifying midfield talent

We don't have one elite mid that they drafted.

Gresham is the closest and he had not yet transitioned there full time.

Clark still hasn't.
Coffield now a back man.
Byrnes still a flanker.
Bytel not currently playing seniors.
Marshall fwd ruck.

Phillips delisted.
Langlands delisted.
Parker delisted.
Young delisted.
Hind traded.
Bell delisted.
Mayo delisted.

Long drafted fwd/back. Playing fwd then back.
Battle fwd.
Clav back.
Paton defender.
King fwd.
Wilkie defender.
Connolly???
Allison fwd.
Highmore fwd.

Side note going through this you see an obvious preference for:
1) trading in players over drafting (very hard to get elite midfield talent this way),
2) we really don't rate the rookie draft and don't use a lot of picks there. Not saying this is a bad thing given how unlikely elite talent will be found in the rookie draft.

I think I did that list from 2016. So that turns 5 years old at the end of this year. You're getting to the stage where you can make an honest assessment of how recruitment has worked remembering acquiring ready made talent through a trade is still a function of recruitment I.e. pro scouting.
Click to expand...
It hasn't helped that we've traded away a lot of picks but the issue is we have only chosen to use one of our top 40 picks on mids since Gresham.

That one was Clark who besides round one we have refused to play as a full time mid (surprise, surprise that was his best game!)

I think Byrnes and Bytel were pretty good picks considering how late they were.

Probably a bit rough to say Libba can't pick mids off the evidence we've seen. It is strange he chose not to last year though.

Last year was the perfect opportunity to add to our list with a top 25 pick on a mid.

Not sure the reasoning behind it but it looks like a big mistake.

As the saying goes, you can't get strawberry jam out of shit and it is very hard to find elite mids outside the first couple of rounds.
 
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gringo2011 said:
It looks like they want to trade out Battle to get draft picks to get a midfielder so they used the 2 most recent picks to pick up Battle's replacement so that they can get a similar pick to the one they gave up for Battle's replacement. Same kind of logic as Plugger's maths.
Click to expand...
I will lose my ****en shit if they trade Battle out.
FMD he is a better forward than Membrey and 5 years younger and currently would be better than Max.
But yeah lets trade out a bloke with great upside and young [emoji849]
Jesus Christ, we let Hind walk after playing out of position for 2 years, and now doing the same to Battle.
[emoji849][emoji849]
 
gringo2011 said:
We should be the first club to have a forum vote to make draft choices. Jack Riewoldt, Shia Bolton, Petracca, Poulter etc would all have been saints if we'd had our way. Bonar might have been a disaster though, perhaps take any amusing names out because there are elements of us that would not be able to handle the levels of maturity involved in passing over a dick related name in a vote.
Click to expand...


2016 Draft : Twomey - Powell-Pepper ( or Bolton ) , Knightmare : Rotham. Saints : Long. Winner : Twomey. Runner up Knightmare. ( and he thought bolton would be gone ).
2017 Draft : Twomey - Clark and Coffield , Knightmare : Clarke and Coffield , Saints : Clarke and Coffield Draw. ( Knightmare rated Higgins and Naughton higher in his power ratings though ).
2018 Draft : King -King - King Draw.
2019 Draft : No early pick.
2020 Draft : Nathan O'Driscoll ( or Jack Carroll, Zane Trew, Caleb Pouter ). Knightmare : Zavier Maher. Saints: Allison. Too early to tell.
 
bird_man said:
Strange comparison.
Click to expand...
No I don't think so - Ugle-Hagan was taken before Highmore and is yet to play a game - therefore he must be of a lesser standard and the people who selected him must be stupid.

Isn't that the sole basis of the discussion of us selecting Allison before Poulter?
 

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Joffaboy said:
I will lose my fu**en sh*t if they trade Battle out.
FMD he is a better forward than Membrey and 5 years younger and currently would be better than Max.
But yeah lets trade out a bloke with great upside and young [emoji849]
Jesus Christ, we let Hind walk after playing out of position for 2 years, and now doing the same to Battle.
[emoji849][emoji849]
Click to expand...


yeah, he needs continuity in one spot, his development has been a mess so far. The wing experiment was a dismal failure, he's got talent but we haven't even started to uncover it yet.
 
StCicatriz said:
I've got an alternative view on hanners.

First the obvious the big problem is we recruited a guy with a recent history of soft tissues injuries on big money on a big long term contract. It's staggering that a guy like that is on a 5 year which doesn't expire until the end of 2023. Where are the trigger points to protect us against this exact scenario?

Ok so once you get passed that absolute sh*t show of list management. We are left to work out how to make a bad situation better.

First option. You find a way to negotiate with hanners to take a significant pay cut. You're not after a saving of 50 or 100k here. You're after a massive chunk of that reported 800k for the next two years. I think its very unlikely hanners or his management will agree to this. St kilda were well aware of his history. They signed him on knowing full well if that history continued they would be paying him that money to rehab.

Second option. You effectively accept he will never play again but you're going to pay him. So now you need to utilise him in other ways that do not involve playing. Id be using his 800k to work around the footy dept spend and turn him into a development coach. I'd still sell to him that we see him fit and in the best 22 and he should continue with his rehab. But his focus when he is not on the park should be to develop those around him. Including match day development coaching at Sandy.

Right now it feels like it's been 100% down the path of getting him right to play which i don't think is working.

I'm wondering if he will have a larger impact working closely with bytel/byrnes etc. Than he would trying to be an AFL player.
Click to expand...
I'ts just my gut feel, but the most obvious arrangement is to retire him for next year a-la Robbo, and as you say use him as a development coach.
I sincerely doubt the professional rehab lifestyle is still enjoyable and I doubt a young man with already millions in assets (you'd think) will quibble over small amounts.
We'll find out at the end of the year if the club has been paying his contract forward. So many other players have done this before so it has to be the obvious path..
 
pebblesofsand said:
No I don't think so - Ugle-Hagan was taken before Highmore and is yet to play a game - therefore he must be of a lesser standard and the people who selected him must be stupid.

Isn't that the sole basis of the discussion of us selecting Allison before Poulter?
Click to expand...
No it's not at all. You are the only one that has come to that conclusion.

Most of us that were disappointed with the selection felt that way well before any of them played a game this year.

Mostly because we reached for a key forward that looks to be a project player which seemed a huge risk for something that wasn't a massive need.

It just so happens that the longer it goes on the worse it looks right now.
 
pebblesofsand said:
No I don't think so - Ugle-Hagan was taken before Highmore and is yet to play a game - therefore he must be of a lesser standard and the people who selected him must be stupid.

Isn't that the sole basis of the discussion of us selecting Allison before Poulter?
Click to expand...


What's funny is that apparently the Dogs aren't happy with JUHs attitude so far. At least they didn't just grab a superstar that played like Buddy from day one. They seemed to win the lottery by getting him but it hasn't been the absolute steal he was predicted to be so far.
 
gringo2011 said:
What's funny is that apparently the Dogs aren't happy with JUHs attitude so far. At least they didn't just grab a superstar that played like Buddy from day one. They seemed to win the lottery by getting him but it hasn't been the absolute steal he was predicted to be so far.
Click to expand...
He's not the first player to have a bit of FIGJAM about him early in his career. Petracca had the same issues.

For all his criticism he's still averaging over 2 goals a game in his first 4 VFL games.

I think he'll be fine.

Maybe even as good as Tom Highmore one day...
 
gringo2011 said:
What's funny is that apparently the Dogs aren't happy with JUHs attitude so far. At least they didn't just grab a superstar that played like Buddy from day one. They seemed to win the lottery by getting him but it hasn't been the absolute steal he was predicted to be so far.
Click to expand...
That's an odd one but he was known to be a bit fig jam beforehand. Since he was part of their NGA they would have had full knowledge, but I wend early last year and labeled him a future spud. Doggies fans didn't agree for some reason..
 
ScrappyDo said:
That's an odd one but he was known to be a bit fig jam beforehand. Since he was part of their NGA they would have had full knowledge, but I wend early last year and labeled him a future spud. Doggies fans didn't agree for some reason..
Click to expand...
Won't matter; they'll just replace him with the Darcy kid that will fall into their lap this year :rolleyes:
 
bird_man said:
He's not the first player to have a bit of FIGJAM about him early in his career. Petracca had the same issues.

For all his criticism he's still averaging over 2 goals a game in his first 4 VFL games.

I think he'll be fine.

Maybe even as good as Tom Highmore one day...
Click to expand...
Just like Matthew Allison "maybe" as good as Nick Riewoldt one day.
 

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pebblesofsand said:
Just like Matthew Allison "maybe" as good as Nick Riewoldt one day.
Click to expand...
iOajlTl.gif
 
Time to shift out the GOPs that won’t get us where we need to be.
Guys like Battle, Long, Connolly, Clav, Dunstan, Alabaskis ain’t gonna help us win a flag. Cash them in for any pick possible now.
This club is in real trouble now. List needs immediate intervention
 
Marching said:
Time to shift out the GOPs that won’t get us where we need to be.
Guys like Battle, Long, Connolly, Clav, Dunstan, Alabaskis ain’t gonna help us win a flag. Cash them in for any pick possible now.
This club is in real trouble now. List needs immediate intervention
Click to expand...
Bloody connolly. just read he hasn't had a possession this season yet. Delist.
 

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Joffaboy said:
I will lose my fu**en sh*t if they trade Battle out.
FMD he is a better forward than Membrey and 5 years younger and currently would be better than Max.
But yeah lets trade out a bloke with great upside and young [emoji849]
Jesus Christ, we let Hind walk after playing out of position for 2 years, and now doing the same to Battle.
[emoji849][emoji849]
Click to expand...
In what world is he a better forward than Membrey? He has potential for sure but come on man haha
 
bird_man said:
It hasn't helped that we've traded away a lot of picks but the issue is we have only chosen to use one of our top 40 picks on mids since Gresham.

That one was Clark who besides round one we have refused to play as a full time mid (surprise, surprise that was his best game!)

I think Byrnes and Bytel were pretty good picks considering how late they were.

Probably a bit rough to say Libba can't pick mids off the evidence we've seen. It is strange he chose not to last year though.

Last year was the perfect opportunity to add to our list with a top 25 pick on a mid.

Not sure the reasoning behind it but it looks like a big mistake.

As the saying goes, you can't get strawberry jam out of sh*t and it is very hard to find elite mids outside the first couple of rounds.
Click to expand...
Your point on trading picks out is correct. But you have to remember that identifying ready made talent in the AFL is still a function of recruitment. We employ pro scouts to do exactly that.

We've had a clear strategy of using first and 2nd rounders to get ready made talent. Id argue that our appetitive for trading a first has increased under libba and gags. Previously we seemed to protect the first rounder but trade the 2nd rounder.
 
ScrappyDo said:
That's an odd one but he was known to be a bit fig jam beforehand. Since he was part of their NGA they would have had full knowledge, but I wend early last year and labeled him a future spud. Doggies fans didn't agree for some reason..
Click to expand...
Tbh to make it to the absolutely elite level of the AFL I think you need a big element of FIGJAM.

Remember when Dustin Martin was a handful? Buddy seemed to be skating on thin ice too.

Long history of blokes who had this aura and attitude of **** I'm good as soon as they crossed onto the field.
 
StCicatriz said:
Tbh to make it to the absolutely elite level of the AFL I think you need a big element of FIGJAM.

Remember when Dustin Martin was a handful? Buddy seemed to be skating on thin ice too.

Long history of blokes who had this aura and attitude of fu** I'm good as soon as they crossed onto the field.
Click to expand...


It's definitely a different type of recruitment than what you'd do for a job interview. It should be based on more than getting them in a job interview or at the family home. A lot of the way players come across comes out in junior games. You can watch them play and see the ones who play with energy or swagger, leaders, followers, competitors etc. Poulter looked like he had that energy and drive to dominate games. Bont apparently had it too. It really seemed noticeable how nice our players were, if you were picking guys to marry your daughters you would have been happy with Billings, DMac, Mc Cartin and that generation. It's become a bit of a meme but that nice guy policy hasn't seemed to find guys with champion qualities.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Always.

Just pointing out that making a comparision between two players drafted last year when only one of the players has played (and then using that to question the capability of our recruiters) is just a tiny bit ridiculous.
Click to expand...
One is a freak and was undoubtedly the best talent in his draft pool. He's being kept out of a very good side.
The other was a total unknown.
Poulter was exactly what we needed, the best available and what 95% of people wanted and he's proving why.
Allison can't get a touch in the 2s and the overwhelming response to his drafting was "who?". Hope he proves me wrong but the kids chances are quite low.

Let's revisit this in 2 years when JUH is starring and allison is delisted
 
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