List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

George · Aug 22, 2021

Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

www.bigfooty.com

StCicatriz · Jun 7, 2021

Joffaboy said:
WTF do we hate midfielders? Picking this Alison bloke when we aready have Membrey and Battle as the second or third tall. Poulter would have beeen obvious for a team that has had an ordinary midfield for a decade.

But you know who needs mids, obviously not us, we need forwards, cause you know.....

Maybe libba and co just don't have an eye for mids

g_TRAIN · Jun 7, 2021

StCicatriz said:
Maybe libba and co just don't have an eye for mids

I don't think they hate mids.

I think they are trying to take the best available talent which is a good policy. Problem is we have not been getting it right

StCicatriz · Jun 7, 2021

g_TRAIN said:
I don't think they hate mids.

I think they are trying to take the best available talent which is a good policy. Problem is we have not been getting it right

Yeh sorry don't mean to say they hate them. More saying what if they're just not very good at identifying midfield talent

We don't have one elite mid that they drafted.

Gresham is the closest and he had not yet transitioned there full time.

Clark still hasn't.
Coffield now a back man.
Byrnes still a flanker.
Bytel not currently playing seniors.
Marshall fwd ruck.

Phillips delisted.
Langlands delisted.
Parker delisted.
Young delisted.
Hind traded.
Bell delisted.
Mayo delisted.

Long drafted fwd/back. Playing fwd then back.
Battle fwd.
Clav back.
Paton defender.
King fwd.
Wilkie defender.
Connolly???
Allison fwd.
Highmore fwd.

Side note going through this you see an obvious preference for:
1) trading in players over drafting (very hard to get elite midfield talent this way),
2) we really don't rate the rookie draft and don't use a lot of picks there. Not saying this is a bad thing given how unlikely elite talent will be found in the rookie draft.

I think I did that list from 2016. So that turns 5 years old at the end of this year. You're getting to the stage where you can make an honest assessment of how recruitment has worked remembering acquiring ready made talent through a trade is still a function of recruitment I.e. pro scouting.

BrutThough · Jun 7, 2021

g_TRAIN said:
I don't think they hate mids.

I think they are trying to take the best available talent which is a good policy. Problem is we have not been getting it right

I think that it's because we do have more young mids than we do young forwards right now, especially when you consider the coaches reluctance to play Battle as a forward.

g_TRAIN · Jun 7, 2021

StCicatriz said:
Yeh sorry don't mean to say they hate them. More saying what if they're just not very good at identifying midfield talent

Yeah, it seems like it.

There is an element of luck involved so hopefully our luck changes draft-wise.

Honestly, all it takes is one good draft where we pick up 3 gun players. Can make an enormous difference.

Browny2Carlisle · Jun 7, 2021

Joffaboy said:
WTF do we hate midfielders? Picking this Alison bloke when we aready have Membrey and Battle as the second or third tall. Poulter would have beeen obvious for a team that has had an ordinary midfield for a decade.

But you know who needs mids, obviously not us, we need forwards, cause you know.....

It's even weirder because it seems they want allison to be a tall winger.
Which Poulter would be far better suited to again anyway.
Would be handy to have him kicking goals for us now that our tall forwards are decimated. Instead we have Allison far too raw to play even with injuries.

bird_man · Jun 7, 2021

g_TRAIN said:
I don't think they hate mids.

I think they are trying to take the best available talent which is a good policy. Problem is we have not been getting it right

I don't think there would have been too many clubs that had Allison as best available at that pick.

Either way it doesn't look like a great selection right now.

gringo2011 · Jun 7, 2021

Joffaboy said:
WTF do we hate midfielders? Picking this Alison bloke when we aready have Membrey and Battle as the second or third tall. Poulter would have beeen obvious for a team that has had an ordinary midfield for a decade.

But you know who needs mids, obviously not us, we need forwards, cause you know.....

It looks like they want to trade out Battle to get draft picks to get a midfielder so they used the 2 most recent picks to pick up Battle's replacement so that they can get a similar pick to the one they gave up for Battle's replacement. Same kind of logic as Plugger's maths.

gringo2011 · Jun 7, 2021

StCicatriz said:
Maybe libba and co just don't have an eye for mids

It reminds me of ten years chasing half back flankers only to still need half back flankers.

bird_man · Jun 7, 2021

gringo2011 said:
It looks like they want to trade out Battle to get draft picks to get a midfielder so they used the 2 most recent picks to pick up Battle's replacement so that they can get a similar pick to the one they gave up for Battle's replacement. Same kind of logic as Plugger's maths.

How does it look like that?

I've read a couple of people on big footy suggest it but nothing else.

As I've said before it would be a really strange 12 months of list management but I'm not sure the club is actually planning it

gringo2011 · Jun 7, 2021

BrutThough said:
I think that it's because we do have more young mids than we do young forwards right now, especially when you consider the coaches reluctance to play Battle as a forward.

If you think on average that only a few end up being stars and we haven't really used any high picks on them then we probably need more. We really should be chasing them with a bit more vigour. Otherwise we should be putting in bids for guys like Bailey Smith who aren't getting as much run at becoming a star when he's got a Libba and now Treloar taking time out of the midfield that he was getting last year. A Sam Walsh type would be incredible, he looks like he could be the next in line for a superstar career.

Our best mids are Steele who is A grade, Crouch who is B+ with the odd A grade game and been physically lacking in resilience for years, Jones who is patchy and fluctuates between average and elite before injury seems to hit, Hanners who plays 3 games a year on average, Gresham who is injury plagued and looks like for longevity has to play as a small forward, Ross who fluctuates between B and A grade but is limited, Dunstan who is limited and with his disposal issues probably remains as depth and then Bytel and Byrnes who could be anything but too early to tell despite Byrnes particularly looking well on track. Then guys like Clark, Snags, Sinclair etc that can have a run in the mids but for what ever reason haven't made the leap.

To me that is a real area of focus and relying on the guys who's injury historys haven't been kind is a recipe for the type of season we're having. Elite mids are a golden commodity too so if you have surplus you can always cash them in.

gringo2011 · Jun 7, 2021

bird_man said:
How does it look like that?

I've read a couple of people on big footy suggest it but nothing else.

As I've said before it would be a really strange 12 months of list management but I'm not sure the club is actually planning it

I reckon Stavro has a pretty close relationship with the club and he seems to leak the stuff the club wants to put out there to minimise melts. He's been pretty strong on the Billings stuff which looks almost certain to happen and it's backed up by Mikka who also has close contacts at the club. Stavro's been pushing the Battle trade agenda saying it's the other player we can afford to lose. I expect the club is considering it based off that. I guess it depends on how close you see Stavro is to the club.

I think we are panicking after overrating our list this year and trying to get some draft currency to start to top up the youth quotas.

gringo2011 · Jun 7, 2021

g_TRAIN said:
Yeah, it seems like it.

There is an element of luck involved so hopefully our luck changes draft-wise.

Honestly, all it takes is one good draft where we pick up 3 gun players. Can make an enormous difference.

I think we really just need to get stars rather than quantity. We don't want volume so much as top end. We are right for good ordinary players but the experienced depth and top end quality holds us back from being a top 4 club. If we nail our first round pick and they turn into a hit the ground running type like Jackson or Pickett it can really reenergise a stale playing list.

Atomboy · Jun 7, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I reckon Stavro has a pretty close relationship with the club and he seems to leak the stuff the club wants to put out there to minimise melts. He's been pretty strong on the Billings stuff which looks almost certain to happen and it's backed up by Mikka who also has close contacts at the club. Stavro's been pushing the Battle trade agenda saying it's the other player we can afford to lose. I expect the club is considering it based off that. I guess it depends on how close you see Stavro is to the club.

I think we are panicking after overrating our list this year and trying to get some draft currency to start to top up the youth quotas.

Which would be fine if you had any faith in our drafting.

With our luck we will ship off two AFL standard guys for picks in the second round which will result in us drafting two absolute plonkers who never play

StCicatriz · Jun 7, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I reckon Stavro has a pretty close relationship with the club and he seems to leak the stuff the club wants to put out there to minimise melts. He's been pretty strong on the Billings stuff which looks almost certain to happen and it's backed up by Mikka who also has close contacts at the club. Stavro's been pushing the Battle trade agenda saying it's the other player we can afford to lose. I expect the club is considering it based off that. I guess it depends on how close you see Stavro is to the club.

I think we are panicking after overrating our list this year and trying to get some draft currency to start to top up the youth quotas.

I think billings is like the canary in the coal mine. He'll show us what the club truly thinks about this year.

If we retain billings then they will be of the belief that 2021 was a one off horrid run and that we truly will content in 2022 and beyond. For the long term. Billings being the icing on the cake or impact player that can help you go from top 6 to top 4 and have a crack at a flag.

If we choose to let billings leave then I think its the best indication we will get that they see issues in the list and the performance of the side that requires a realignment still and that billings will never be part of the engine that will address that. Basically i think it's a sign they see the midfield as sub par. The view being that the draft currency acquired from the billings move will allow us to target the draft or another player part of the long term build.

SaintsSeptember · Jun 7, 2021

It makes more sense if we think that Gold Coast would want us to cough up a decent forward as part of a deal in return for someone.

pebblesofsand · Jun 7, 2021

bird_man said:
Watching Caleb Poulter playing bloody good footy makes my blood boil.

Absolute balls up!

Could be worse - imagine how the Doggies feel picking Ugle-Hagan ahead of Tom Highmore.

bird_man · Jun 7, 2021

pebblesofsand said:
Could be worse - imagine how the Doggies feel picking Ugle-Hagan ahead of Tom Highmore.

Strange comparison.

StCicatriz · Jun 7, 2021

I've got an alternative view on hanners.

First the obvious the big problem is we recruited a guy with a recent history of soft tissues injuries on big money on a big long term contract. It's staggering that a guy like that is on a 5 year which doesn't expire until the end of 2023. Where are the trigger points to protect us against this exact scenario?

Ok so once you get passed that absolute shit show of list management. We are left to work out how to make a bad situation better.

First option. You find a way to negotiate with hanners to take a significant pay cut. You're not after a saving of 50 or 100k here. You're after a massive chunk of that reported 800k for the next two years. I think its very unlikely hanners or his management will agree to this. St kilda were well aware of his history. They signed him on knowing full well if that history continued they would be paying him that money to rehab.

Second option. You effectively accept he will never play again but you're going to pay him. So now you need to utilise him in other ways that do not involve playing. Id be using his 800k to work around the footy dept spend and turn him into a development coach. I'd still sell to him that we see him fit and in the best 22 and he should continue with his rehab. But his focus when he is not on the park should be to develop those around him. Including match day development coaching at Sandy.

Right now it feels like it's been 100% down the path of getting him right to play which i don't think is working.

I'm wondering if he will have a larger impact working closely with bytel/byrnes etc. Than he would trying to be an AFL player.

bird_man · Jun 7, 2021

StCicatriz said:
I've got an alternative view on hanners.

First the obvious the big problem is we recruited a guy with a recent history of soft tissues injuries on big money on a big long term contract. It's staggering that a guy like that is on a 5 year which doesn't expire until the end of 2023. Where are the trigger points to protect us against this exact scenario?

Ok so once you get passed that absolute sh*t show of list management. We are left to work out how to make a bad situation better.

First option. You find a way to negotiate with hanners to take a significant pay cut. You're not after a saving of 50 or 100k here. You're after a massive chunk of that reported 800k for the next two years. I think its very unlikely hanners or his management will agree to this. St kilda were well aware of his history. They signed him on knowing full well if that history continued they would be paying him that money to rehab.

Second option. You effectively accept he will never play again but you're going to pay him. So now you need to utilise him in other ways that do not involve playing. Id be using his 800k to work around the footy dept spend and turn him into a development coach. I'd still sell to him that we see him fit and in the best 22 and he should continue with his rehab. But his focus when he is not on the park should be to develop those around him. Including match day development coaching at Sandy.

Right now it feels like it's been 100% down the path of getting him right to play which i don't think is working.

I'm wondering if he will have a larger impact working closely with bytel/byrnes etc. Than he would trying to be an AFL player.

Doesn't Hanners only have one year left not two?

lewdogs · Jun 7, 2021

Hanneberys deal would have been front loaded, there's no point trying to cut him why would he retire, he has one year left you see if you can get him on the park to add something and if not he's gone at the end of 2022.

HunterClarksHeadband · Jun 7, 2021

Atomboy said:
Which would be fine if you had any faith in our drafting.

With our luck we will ship off two AFL standard guys for picks in the second round which will result in us drafting two absolute plonkers who never play

Spot on. EXACTLY my thoughts too - people praying for Billings + Battle to be shipped off for draft picks but I’ve got zero faith in turning those picks into “future stars” look at the history. Battle is only 22 FFS, we’ve already seen he can win/save games alone have some patience FMD.

gringo2011 · Jun 7, 2021

bird_man said:
Strange comparison.

We should be the first club to have a forum vote to make draft choices. Jack Riewoldt, Shia Bolton, Petracca, Poulter etc would all have been saints if we'd had our way. Bonar might have been a disaster though, perhaps take any amusing names out because there are elements of us that would not be able to handle the levels of maturity involved in passing over a dick related name in a vote.

gringo2011 · Jun 7, 2021

bird_man said:
Doesn't Hanners only have one year left not two?

One plus a trigger I think but doubt he'll make the triggers. I think he's meant to be on $600k so not quite as bad as $800k either. I would probably try to see if he's keen to take $350k to walk away and start his new life but if he holds us to it hopefully he can get on the park and have one good year.

SaintsSeptember · Jun 7, 2021

bird_man said:
Doesn't Hanners only have one year left not two?

He has a trigger for the final year, which he failed to reach.
So you are correct.

Log In or Create New Account

List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

Premium Platinum

Hall of Famer

Near a spoon

Hall of Famer

Brownlow Medallist

Near a spoon

Norm Smith Medallist

Hall of Famer

Premium Platinum

Premium Platinum

Hall of Famer

Premium Platinum

Premium Platinum

Premium Platinum

Norm Smith Medallist

Hall of Famer

TheBrownDog

Brownlow Medallist

Hall of Famer

Hall of Famer

Hall of Famer

Cancelled

Club Legend

Premium Platinum

Premium Platinum

TheBrownDog

Similar threads