List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

George · Aug 22, 2021

Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

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bird_man · Mar 16, 2021

Ducky Tie said:
I think there is a real problem in the AFL with high draft picks walking out the door after two years from interstate clubs but from a St Kilda perspective, we'd be negligent not to get involved.

McAsey to the Saints makes a lot of sense, both for him and for us. There's clearly a vacancy in that second KPD position and he is the perfect size and age for us.

Agree 100%

Clubs should have the option to keep first round draftees for 3 to 4 years.

We have done pretty well out of it though and I hope we continue to.

This guys should be top of our list.

jwikked · Mar 16, 2021

Ducky Tie said:
I think there is a real problem in the AFL with high draft picks walking out the door after two years from interstate clubs but from a St Kilda perspective, we'd be negligent not to get involved.

McAsey to the Saints makes a lot of sense, both for him and for us. There's clearly a vacancy in that second KPD position and he is the perfect size and age for us.

Not just that, but effectively choosing who they play for. Cuts out a lot of negotiating that clubs should have when dealing with other clubs.
Playing AFL level football isn’t a right, it’s a privilege, and seeing some players issue ultimatums on where they will play is not a good thing for the AFL. Set a contract price, and whoever matches it and offers the best trade should be where that player ends up.

StCicatriz · Mar 16, 2021

bird_man said:
Agree 100%

Clubs should have the option to keep first round draftees for 3 to 4 years.

We have done pretty well out of it though and I hope we continue to.

This guys should be top of our list.

personally i think the better option is to raise the draft age, so they're not drafting guys who have just entered adult hood

not many of these young draftees who bail from an interstate club after 2 years then actually make it, many of them its a symptom of a bigger problem where they just are not ready for such an elite high performance environment

11men1cup · Mar 16, 2021

Don't know anything about Mcasey, but I can already tell you if he comes to us he's a steal and would slot in to our 22

If he doesn't come to us then he's overrated and we didn't really want him anyway.

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stavro#4 · Mar 16, 2021

StCicatriz said:
personally i think the better option is to raise the draft age, so they're not drafting guys who have just entered adult hood

not many of these young draftees who bail from an interstate club after 2 years then actually make it, many of them its a symptom of a bigger problem where they just are not ready for such an elite high performance environment

Too much player power.

Clubs need to be able to trade contracted players without their agreement. Takes back the power of a player nominating where he wants to go and firmly makes the deal a best value deal for each club.

ZedNotZee · Mar 16, 2021

Would be a few clubs in for him if he does announce his desire to come back to Victoria, but if the kid is smart he'll see our obvious need for another young key defender. It's the obvious missing piece in our side and the spot is his if he wants it.

jwikked · Mar 16, 2021

stavro#4 said:
Too much player power.

Clubs need to be able to trade contracted players without their agreement. Takes back the power of a player nominating where he wants to go and firmly makes the deal a best value deal for each club.

There's no difference between a 2nd year player and a restricted free agent right now.

stavro#4 · Mar 16, 2021

jwikked said:
There's no difference between a 2nd year player and a restricted free agent right now.

Correct.

Which is why what I’m proposing being able to trade someone contracted without their agreement.

A club in their window would pay well for someone like Dougal Howard.

SaintsSeptember · Mar 16, 2021

Posters on the Essendon board are already proposing to match any free agent bids that the Saints may make on Merret, and demand 2 first rounders.

StCicatriz · Mar 16, 2021

stavro#4 said:
Too much player power.

Clubs need to be able to trade contracted players without their agreement. Takes back the power of a player nominating where he wants to go and firmly makes the deal a best value deal for each club.

that works in the states because you have guys on 10s of millions. so things like relocation costs dont factor in.

problem is we have guys on an AFL list for less than 80k. up rooting them and depending on the city they go to can have a financial hit. only way i could see that working if there is some kind of financial band they need to cross. for example if you're a top 10 draftee on <200k, maybe the club you are traded to needs to cover 100k in a relocation + have a minimum base on their contract.

BrutThough · Mar 16, 2021

Ducky Tie said:
I think there is a real problem in the AFL with high draft picks walking out the door after two years from interstate clubs but from a St Kilda perspective, we'd be negligent not to get involved.

McAsey to the Saints makes a lot of sense, both for him and for us. There's clearly a vacancy in that second KPD position and he is the perfect size and age for us.

Sounds like this one is more of a genuine family/illness rated reason for wanting to come back to Victoria rather than a 500k reason for coming home.

Sounds like a very good fit for us. His value is hard to place. Top 6 pick two years ago but showed very little on the field. If we finish in a similar position, it would likely cost us a first round pick which would again leave us thin with draft picks.

stavro#4 · Mar 16, 2021

StCicatriz said:
that works in the states because you have guys on 10s of millions. so things like relocation costs dont factor in.

problem is we have guys on an AFL list for less than 80k. up rooting them and depending on the city they go to can have a financial hit. only way i could see that working if there is some kind of financial band they need to cross. for example if you're a top 10 draftee on <200k, maybe the club you are traded to needs to cover 100k in a relocation + have a minimum base on their contract.

Every draftee lands on the doorstep of existing players and generally this is managed by the clubs.

Probably takes a few weeks/months for families to work out their plans but the players themselves - no issues.

Keeping the current status quo hurts clubs.

Joffaboy · Mar 16, 2021

How many players move every year? 40 out of 700?
And from my pov they aren't pieces of meat to move on a club whim.

Ducky Tie · Mar 16, 2021

BrutThough said:
Sounds like this one is more of a genuine family/illness rated reason for wanting to come back to Victoria rather than a 500k reason for coming home.

Sounds like a very good fit for us. His value is hard to place. Top 6 pick two years ago but showed very little on the field. If we finish in a similar position, it would likely cost us a first round pick which would again leave us thin with draft picks.

It'll be interesting. We certainly are going on a different list building strategy to most clubs, but in the end the draft is just a way of building a list for an ongoing crack at it. If we were trading away draft picks for older players constantly it'd make me more concerned but Higgins, McAsey, Howard, Butler, Jones etc are really good ages for the long term list profile. We do need Clark, King, Coffield, Battle etc to develop as we hope though, as I feel the club is relying on that crop of youth to become genuine top level footballers.

Jay Beast · Mar 16, 2021

Joffaboy said:
How many players move every year? 40 out of 700?
And from my pov they aren't pieces of meat to move on a club whim.

Exactly. They're not slaves.

stavro#4 · Mar 16, 2021

Jay Beast said:
Exactly. They're not slaves.

Yet they hold clubs to ransom.

There has to be a middle ground.

stavro#4 · Mar 16, 2021

Ducky Tie said:
It'll be interesting. We certainly are going on a different list building strategy to most clubs, but in the end the draft is just a way of building a list for an ongoing crack at it. If we were trading away draft picks for older players constantly it'd make me more concerned but Higgins, McAsey, Howard, Butler, Jones etc are really good ages for the long term list profile. We do need Clark, King, Coffield, Battle etc to develop as we hope though, as I feel the club is relying on that crop of youth to become genuine top level footballers.

There isn’t much risk trading first rounders for players of the demographic you have listed.

It’s effectively increasing the draft age limit, we are just using it to grab players with exposure and form in the system.

The downside is missing out on the potential gun midfield youngsters (in talking the Pendlebury Cripps kind that traditionally you land via the draft and not trade)

BrutThough · Mar 16, 2021

Ducky Tie said:
It'll be interesting. We certainly are going on a different list building strategy to most clubs, but in the end the draft is just a way of building a list for an ongoing crack at it. If we were trading away draft picks for older players constantly it'd make me more concerned but Higgins, McAsey, Howard, Butler, Jones etc are really good ages for the long term list profile. We do need Clark, King, Coffield, Battle etc to develop as we hope though, as I feel the club is relying on that crop of youth to become genuine top level footballers.

I think there needs to be a balance with the draft, trades and DFA signings. And the best lists utilise all 3.

You need to keep drafting young players and having that youth available to you because there won't be players there to trade in every single year. Just as you can't ignore the ability to instantly approve your list instantly through trades.

We've done well with the age of players we have traded in - and avoided over paying in most of the trades - but we probably do need to have more than 5 players under the age of 21 on our list too.

Ducky Tie · Mar 16, 2021

BrutThough said:
I think there needs to be a balance with the draft, trades and DFA signings. And the best lists utilise all 3.

You need to keep drafting young players and having that youth available to you because there won't be players there to trade in every single year. Just as you can't ignore the ability to instantly approve your list instantly through trades.

We've done well with the age of players we have traded in - and avoided over paying in most of the trades - but we probably do need to have more than 5 players under the age of 21 on our list too.

I think there does need to be a balance, but the 5 players under 21 thing doesn't concern me at the moment. It's sort of an arbitrary number. Another way of looking at it is that about 17 of our best 22 are 26 or under, suggesting that the bulk of our team will remain there for the next 5-10 years. I think a comparison with Port Adelaide shows that our balance is pretty good. They have 12 players under 21, but also seven players who are 30+ and in their best 22. Seb is 27 and the only player older than him who is a locks in our best 22 is Ryder. Then there's Geary, Frawley and Hanners who you could make a case for either way. That leaves a club like Port Adelaide at a much bigger risk of falling of the cliff than we are.

You're right that the trading options won't be there every year, but while it is, I'm happy to pursue these 21-24 year old types. As long as they are quality players with long term futures, it mitigates the neccesity of the draft. We will have to go back to it at some stage though eventually, of course.

jwikked · Mar 16, 2021

Jay Beast said:
Exactly. They're not slaves.

Of course not. If they aren't willing to play for the AFL team that picks them up - they can go play in the local leagues and get a real job. The idea that they must remain in the AFL system and bend rules to make sure they get what they want is baffling.

ScrappyDo · Mar 16, 2021

BrutThough said:
Sounds like this one is more of a genuine family/illness rated reason for wanting to come back to Victoria rather than a 500k reason for coming home.

Sounds like a very good fit for us. His value is hard to place. Top 6 pick two years ago but showed very little on the field. If we finish in a similar position, it would likely cost us a first round pick which would again leave us thin with draft picks.

Same same for a 20yo or a draftee. It's when you go for the 28yo that you're hamstringing yourself.
Still, if McAsey cost a first round pick, I'd be offering it to Brisbane first...

Geary Is GOAT · Mar 16, 2021

Can you imagine the shit storm of us dealing with the Crows after the Crouch debacle from their perspective

They're supporters will want two first rounders and King

Obvious choice for us though. Two years of development into him already is a massive bonus.

bird_man · Mar 16, 2021

BrutThough said:
Sounds like this one is more of a genuine family/illness rated reason for wanting to come back to Victoria rather than a 500k reason for coming home.

Sounds like a very good fit for us. His value is hard to place. Top 6 pick two years ago but showed very little on the field. If we finish in a similar position, it would likely cost us a first round pick which would again leave us thin with draft picks.

Reckon that's about right.

The other option would be to take that first to the draft and pick a tall defender that's two years younger.

I'd be happy to give it up at this stage. He struggled a bit last year but was thrown in the deep end for a skinny tall defender.

He also showed some really good signs at times.

stavro#4 · Mar 16, 2021

jwikked said:
Of course not. If they aren't willing to play for the AFL team that picks them up - they can go play in the local leagues and get a real job. The idea that they must remain in the AFL system and bend rules to make sure they get what they want is baffling.

I think a great alternative is that clubs can trade players freely in the trade period before a players last 12 months of his contract.

Once that players contract expires they become unrestricted free agents - regardless of tenure in the game or club.

That way clubs can get some compensations before a players last year and aren’t held with a gun to their head about player demands.

Players then are rewarded with being able to move anywhere at the end of the next season

Joffaboy · Mar 16, 2021

2020 there were 26 players traded and nine FA 6 restricted.

Included in the FA were Frawley, McKernan and Corr.

So in fact 30 traded.

I don't think the players have the clubs over any barrel, in fact if you asked the likes of Matthew Parker who moved his young family over to the other side of the country, having a good 2019, a difficult 2020 and then being unceremoniously cut, he was say it is all in the clubs favour.

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