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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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Yawkey way said:
With free agency it would have to be a rare player I’d give up two top 12 picks for.

Just as a matter of interest how many player have been traded for two first rounders and how have those trades worked out. Lynch made it to the tigers for free, it will be interesting to see what sort of value Geelong get out of Cameron, Geelong traded 13, 15 and 20 for cameron and two future second rounders.

It seems a ridiculous system where a player hits restricted free agency yet clubs are still paying a kings ransom.
Click to expand...

AFL clubs have this bullshit system where....

You talk to the player behind his club's back. You get him to publicly commit. Money is fine , its already been discussed. You expect to pay a first round pick.
His club declares that he is worth 4 first round picks you go into hard negotiation.
If you only offer the first round pick you originally thought he was worth , his club, manager, the media , his mum, everyone on big footy, say you are letting him down.

Kenny Rogers probably had it in his lyrics somewhere, something about knowing when to walk away. Of course everyone can "get a deal done".
There are different ways you can haggle.
Haggling for dummies. : Maaate ....my Commodore is great , check out these wheels, I want 10 grand.
: No mate its got a million KM and no-one likes that purple color, " I'll give ya 2 grand.
Eventual sale price : 6 grand. and Mate number one is wondering if he should have asked for 12 grand so he ended up with 7.

The other way is to seriously consider how much something is worth to you, try to get it at a discount, but leave some room to move and don't go past your limits.

During trade week the dumb asses on trade radio are all.....Well Essendon are asking for 3 first rounders and Collingwood have offered 1 , so surely 2 will get the deal done. ...Haggling for dummies.

All this crap about committing to players and "letting them down " will end.
( Who let who down with Caldwell )?
 
aussierulesrules said:
Dogs won a flag a few years ago with Fletcher Roberts and Joel Hamling in the key defensive posts (and possibly Zaine Cordy as well, unless he was up forward) and with Jordan Roughead in the ruck.

Think about that for a minute!
Click to expand...
Dogs were a statistical outlier in almost all the key categories for premiers over the past 15 years.
 
Josh Kelly = No from me , way too expensive and not worth it
 
BrutThough said:
Dogs were a statistical outlier in almost all the key categories for premiers over the past 15 years.
Click to expand...
The main problem our backline had last year was that 6 of the regular back 7 we fielded hadn't played 50 games yet at the start of that season.

No backline as young and inexperienced as that is going to perform amazingly.

By next year (what we're talking about here), a backline containing Howard, Wilkie, Coffield, Paton, Long and Sinclair should be perfectly adequate and hopefully very good and we only need someone who is big enough and can get the job done for FB, to compliment them.

Especially if we've added a Merrett to our midfield, which would give us a seriously good, super-deep and versatile midfield, that would probably be the 2nd best in the comp.
 

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We need bargains and enough salary cap room to keep our own before looking elsewhere.

Judging by pretty much every premiership team you need at least 3-4 A grade mids to be a chance. I’d like one more classy midfielder but if they’re confident we’ve got enough quality in there then maybe you don’t need to chase a Kelly or Merrett.

Hunter Clark looks headed for A grade.
If Jack Steele backs up his year last year he’s another one.

Who else qualifies?
 
SaintsSeptember said:
We could use a young ruck with good prospects, but I'd be happy to go to the draft and take the best available.
We can never have enough good mids. McKenzie was ....ok on the weekend, if he'd been unavailable we'd have been picking Kent then......

I hated letting Phillips go, to me he was good depth.
Click to expand...
We proved on the weekend we have depth , you cant keep everyone as depth , No one drafted Phillips so not too many people rate him except some saints supporters
You cant base everything on if he was unavailable as if that's the case you would have a like for like back up for everyone and we know that's not possible.
Ps , Dmac did ok for his time on the ground and im no fan of his
 
aussierulesrules said:
The main problem our backline had last year was that 6 of the regular back 7 we fielded hadn't played 50 games yet at the start of that season.

No backline as young and inexperienced as that is going to perform amazingly.

By next year (what we're talking about here), a backline containing Howard, Wilkie, Coffield, Paton, Long and Sinclair should be perfectly adequate and hopefully very good and we only need someone who is big enough and can get the job done for FB, to compliment them.

Especially if we've added a Merrett to our midfield, which would give us a seriously good, super-deep and versatile midfield, that would probably be the 2nd best in the comp.
Click to expand...
Merrett has elite footskills which is probably the main thing our midfield lacks- would he be worth chasing?
 
Given the bargains we have scooped up in recent years it is getting greedy to complain, however I feel we really missed an opportunity with Aliir Aliir. Reckon he could have been a perfect fit for us. In a perfect world he could have taken defensive hit outs, Marshall takes the forward ones and we would rarely had to have had Ryder enter the 50's always waiting to pounce on those hail mary defensive kicks out of the 50.

McAsey should come with change if we were to trade a pick in the 10-15 range. I know he was an early pick a couple of years ago, but a top 10 pick who isn't playing seniors should reasonably see their value drop. Will obviously depend on how many Victorian teams are making a play for him, there have been quite a few key defenders taken top 10 in the last decade that just haven't come good so there is no guarantee this bloke is the answer long term.

We are really fortunate at the moment that the versatility of our key players keeps a lot of options open for us.

- Howard can play as a tight defending full back or an intercepting and rebounding centre half back (my preference).
- Marshall can play as a number one ruckman who might not dominate the hitouts but will be elite around the ground, or he can be a more than handy lead up CHF who plays significant time as a second ruck (again the latter being my preference).
- Battle can be an intercepting CHB, an Adam Hunter type swingman or a hard working, aggressive member of the forward 50.

In a perfect world, we would look to bring in two more quality talls, but we have the luxury of knowing that they can come in pretty much any type.
 
hayes said:
We need bargains and enough salary cap room to keep our own before looking elsewhere.

Judging by pretty much every premiership team you need at least 3-4 A grade mids to be a chance. I’d like one more classy midfielder but if they’re confident we’ve got enough quality in there then maybe you don’t need to chase a Kelly or Merrett.

Hunter Clark looks headed for A grade.
If Jack Steele backs up his year last year he’s another one.

Who else qualifies?
Click to expand...
Gresham will if his body cooperates.

Was underdone on the weekend, yet in a game containing Steele, Kelly, Taranto, Ward, Hopper, Hill etc, he got the 2nd-most coaches votes (despite playing just 2/3 of the game) and in his last 6 games last year he got Brownlow votes in 3 of them, and he looked on the verge of a big, possibly almost Petracca-like breakout year, prior to injuring his knee in R1.

The main priorities I see are FB, ruck and polish in the midfield, but the latter would have to be a guy of pretty much AA quality, just to get a game in there, so that's why I think it has to be someone like Merrett.

The fact we wouldn't have to trade anyone/anything for him and could then use our first rounder at the draft, or on someone else, would be huge.

It's not often you get the chance to grab someone of that calibre, who fits your needs perfectly, for just cap space, so that would make him my no.1 priority.

That said, if Seb gets right back near his best this year and we re-sign him, and Billings is the same, we may just not have the cap space for someone on $800K.
 
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hayes said:
We need bargains and enough salary cap room to keep our own before looking elsewhere.

Judging by pretty much every premiership team you need at least 3-4 A grade mids to be a chance. I’d like one more classy midfielder but if they’re confident we’ve got enough quality in there then maybe you don’t need to chase a Kelly or Merrett.

Hunter Clark looks headed for A grade.
If Jack Steele backs up his year last year he’s another one.

Who else qualifies?
Click to expand...

Honestly, system is more important than personnel. Richmond's midfield of the past 5 years is not any more talented than Collingwoods or the Western Bulldogs.

I actually believe that our midfield is already as talented as Richmond's. The only issue is that it probably doesn't mesh as well, we can look a little bit one paced at times and some of our players strengths overlap.

Martin, Cotchin, Prestia, Lambert, Edwards, Bolton, Pickett, McIntosh, Graham
vs
Steele, Crouch, Gresham, Clark, Jones, Hill, Ross, Billings

I think our midfield runs deep and matches up pretty well against theirs. I don't think it is as simple as we need another A-Grader because you can only have so many blokes running through there at any given time anyway, and I don't feel we have any real liabilities go through like we have in recent years. If you have a solid B+ mid going through the midfield, but he is a C grade forward flanker when he's not in the centre, you're no better off adding him to this group than you are just adding another B grade forward flanker and having few combinations rotate through the centre.

Now if we can get an ultra-elite A++ player like Martin, we would already be competing for a flag this year. Unfortunately, there are rarely more than 2 or 3 of them in the league at any given time.

What we need to work on is the versatility of midfield's midfield unit, they've got the hard two way running wingers, they've got the traditional in and under extractors, but what really set them apart in 2020 in my opinion was the ability of their really dynamic mids that have franetic speed, skills and agression. Always having one of Martin, Edwards or Bolton in the centre makes them so much more explosive. We only really have Gresham and Jones capable of this play, and to a lesser standard than Richmond's trio.

Richmond's back flankers are also elite, we really need Coffield, Sinclair and Long to get to the level of Short and Houli, but that is no small task.

I don't feel that Merrett helps any of our issues, he is more of what we have, an improvement on a lot of players in a lot of areas, and no improvement in other areas.

Merrett is currently a better player than Shai Bolton, but if given the choice I would take Bolton every day of the week because he adds something extra, gives us another trick up our sleeve.
 
hayes said:
We need bargains
Click to expand...

While a good value "buy" is good, having rebuilt our list we are now at the stage of needing exactly the right player, or players, in order to improve us.

So our focus will now become sourcing those players. Some need to be stars, but not all. Some just need to be good.

Prior to recently the list of positions we need was quite broad, but slots have been filled.

ie

Hill Wing
Howard FB
Butler and Higgins Small Forwards
Paton Back Pocket (Geary replacement)
King Key Forward
Accumulator Mid Crouch

Looking beyond this season the three positions we most need are:

Genuine star line breaking mid. With Crouch now having joined us we have enough other midfield talent.
CHB (or FB as Howard can play either FB or CHB) - Frawley is a stop gap. Carlisle out of favour and aging. Battle, Highmore etc lack a few cm.
Ryder Replacement- Ryder has exceeded all expectations, but father time beckons. We need another player to pair with ROMA. Either a true No1 ruck, or another ruck forward. You can see why the club was chasing Draper.

Of the above three positions it is the midfield position where we need genuine star quality the most. A competent key defender will serve us well, as there is now a good backline for them to be part of. With the ruck vacancy yes while we would love a star, but a serviceable ruck such as a Pittonet type would suffice.

Yes drafting will keep topping us up and providing new blood as well. Our window has opened though and so trading/FA is the only likely path to gain those three positions within the next few tears.

With the above 3 positions the draft will not help us in the near term. We will not finish low enough to grab that star mid, and big players take time. We need ready-made talls to join us that are ready to play. Which is not to say that they cannot be youngish like Howard was when he joined us. But oldish is fine. Premiership teams of the last few decades are littered with ruckmen who joined their new clubs at mature ages. Ottens (The Cats missing link), Jolly (At both the Swans and the Pies), McEvoy, the list goes on.
 
stfan said:
While a good value "buy" is good, having rebuilt our list we are now at the stage of needing exactly the right player, or players, in order to improve us.

So our focus will now become sourcing those players. Some need to be stars, but not all. Some just need to be good.

Prior to recently the list of positions we need was quite broad, but slots have been filled.

ie

Hill Wing
Howard FB
Butler and Higgins Small Forwards
Paton Back Pocket (Geary replacement)
King Key Forward
Accumulator Mid Crouch

Looking beyond this season the three positions we most need are:

Genuine star line breaking mid. With Crouch now having joined us we have enough other midfield talent.
CHB (or FB as Howard can play either FB or CHB) - Frawley is a stop gap. Carlisle out of favour and aging. Battle, Highmore etc lack a few cm.
Ryder Replacement- Ryder has exceeded all expectations, but father time beckons. We need another player to pair with ROMA. Either a true No1 ruck, or another ruck forward. You can see why the club was chasing Draper.

Of the above three positions it is the midfield position where we need genuine star quality the most. A competent key defender will serve us well, as there is now a good backline for them to be part of. With the ruck vacancy yes while we would love a star, but a serviceable ruck such as a Pittonet type would suffice.

Yes drafting will keep topping us up and providing new blood as well. Our window has opened though and so trading/FA is the only likely path to gain those three positions within the next few tears.

With the above 3 positions the draft will not help us in the near term. We will not finish low enough to grab that star mid, and big players take time. We need ready-made talls to join us that are ready to play. Which is not to say that they cannot be youngish like Howard was when he joined us. But oldish is fine. Premiership teams of the last few decades are littered with ruckmen who joined their new clubs at mature ages. Ottens (The Cats missing link), Jolly (At both the Swans and the Pies), McEvoy, the list goes on.
Click to expand...
So much all this. Pretty much sums up the whole situation perfectly AFAIC.

My dream result for the end of this year would be to pick up Merrett for "free", grab someone really good with our first in the draft and somehow land good enough options for FB and ruck.

That said, that is entirely dependent on how Ryder and Frawley are tracking by the end of the year.

For instance, if Paddy is still going strong and his body is holding up well, the last thing we'd need to do is push him out of the side, if he's still got another good year in him. And for all we know it could be the same thing with Chip. Probably not, but I'm not going to assume anything here.

Most seem to be assuming that's it will be the last year for both of them, but if it isn't for either, or both, it buys us more time.

We also need to see what we get in the mid-season draft. We may just get lucky and tick off one of these boxes there.
 
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BrutThough said:
I doubt someone like Merrett would chose somewhere thats only offering him the big money for 2 years when he would be able to get that money on a long term deal elsewhere.

I originally thought Marshall would move into solo ruck, but I think Ratts was super impressed with how Marshall was able to impact up forward and be the most genuinely threatening forward/ruck in the comp. It could all just depend on who out there is available on what route we go wth Marshall.
Click to expand...
Yeah I don't know. My drift was more about guaranteeing band 1 compo for the Dopers.
I don't think Merrett is worth 800K over 5 years, so you give it for 2 years then a more reasonable contract for another 2-3 years.
 
Darcy Cameron looks to have bucketfulls of potential to me, yet can't get a clear run at it with the big yank in front of him.

I wonder how he'd go as a partner for roma long term and what he'd cost?
 
CaptainRisky said:
Josh Kelly = No from me , way too expensive and not worth it
Click to expand...
There’s whispers in the Firbank Old Girls Club about Jelly returning to Melbourne at the end of the year.
Having said that, that’s pretty true most years.
Whispers that is.
A few years ago and I’d be rapt to get him.
A few years ago and that’s what the Firbank Old Girls were actually saying.
Now I’m thinking we might be a little past that, and have other priorities.
However, I’d still love this thread to emulate the monster Jelly threads from a couple of years ago.
They were endlessly entertaining.
 
sunny3193 said:
There’s whispers in the Firbank Old Girls Club about Jelly returning to Melbourne at the end of the year.
Having said that, that’s pretty true most years.
Whispers that is.
A few years ago and I’d be rapt to get him.
A few years ago and that’s what the Firbank Old Girls were actually saying.
Now I’m thinking we might be a little past that, and have other priorities.
However, I’d still love this thread to emulate the monster Jelly threads from a couple of years ago.
They were endlessly entertaining.
Click to expand...
Just not worth the cash. He's have to take a large pay cut to what he can trigger at the Giants.
 
CaptainRisky said:
We proved on the weekend we have depth , you cant keep everyone as depth , No one drafted Phillips so not too many people rate him except some saints supporters
You cant base everything on if he was unavailable as if that's the case you would have a like for like back up for everyone and we know that's not possible.
Ps , Dmac did ok for his time on the ground and im no fan of his
Click to expand...

One of the Saints list management people stated that he regretted having to let Phillips go . So not just some Saints "Supporters ".
 

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SaintsSeptember said:
One of the Saints list management people stated that he regretted having to let Phillips go . So not just some Saints "Supporters ".
Click to expand...
It was the coach that said it as my spy told me ages ago , i posted that on here .
All I'm saying others didn't rate him or he would have been drafted
 
SaintsSeptember said:
One of the Saints list management people stated that he regretted having to let Phillips go
Click to expand...

I’m sure they did. In many ways he was just a victim of the list reductions brought on by the pandemic and financial cutbacks.

Reality is that if we had kept Phillips one of the players currently on our list wouldn’t be there.

I was a bit skeptical at the time but I reckon our blokes have done a great job with the transition from the 2020 list to the reduced 2021 list.

It’s just bad luck for Phillips (as it is for Langlands, and Marsh, and...)
 
aussierulesrules said:
So much all this. Pretty much sums up the whole situation perfectly AFAIC.

My dream result for the end of this year would be to pick up Merrett for "free", grab someone really good with our first in the draft and somehow land good enough options for FB and ruck.

That said, that is entirely dependent on how Ryder and Frawley are tracking by the end of the year.

For instance, if Paddy is still going strong and his body is holding up well, the last thing we'd need to do is push him out of the side, if he's still got another good year in him. And for all we know it could be the same thing with Chip. Probably not, but I'm not going to assume anything here.

Most seem to be assuming that's it will be the last year for both of them, but if it isn't for either, or both, it buys us more time.

We also need to see what we get in the mid-season draft. We may just get lucky and tick off one of these boxes there.
Click to expand...


Yes Ryder could well have several years left in him if handled well.
 
stfan said:
While a good value "buy" is good, having rebuilt our list we are now at the stage of needing exactly the right player, or players, in order to improve us.

So our focus will now become sourcing those players. Some need to be stars, but not all. Some just need to be good.

Prior to recently the list of positions we need was quite broad, but slots have been filled.

ie

Hill Wing
Howard FB
Butler and Higgins Small Forwards
Paton Back Pocket (Geary replacement)
King Key Forward
Accumulator Mid Crouch

Looking beyond this season the three positions we most need are:

Genuine star line breaking mid. With Crouch now having joined us we have enough other midfield talent.
CHB (or FB as Howard can play either FB or CHB) - Frawley is a stop gap. Carlisle out of favour and aging. Battle, Highmore etc lack a few cm.
Ryder Replacement- Ryder has exceeded all expectations, but father time beckons. We need another player to pair with ROMA. Either a true No1 ruck, or another ruck forward. You can see why the club was chasing Draper.

Of the above three positions it is the midfield position where we need genuine star quality the most. A competent key defender will serve us well, as there is now a good backline for them to be part of. With the ruck vacancy yes while we would love a star, but a serviceable ruck such as a Pittonet type would suffice.

Yes drafting will keep topping us up and providing new blood as well. Our window has opened though and so trading/FA is the only likely path to gain those three positions within the next few tears.

With the above 3 positions the draft will not help us in the near term. We will not finish low enough to grab that star mid, and big players take time. We need ready-made talls to join us that are ready to play. Which is not to say that they cannot be youngish like Howard was when he joined us. But oldish is fine. Premiership teams of the last few decades are littered with ruckmen who joined their new clubs at mature ages. Ottens (The Cats missing link), Jolly (At both the Swans and the Pies), McEvoy, the list goes on.
Click to expand...

I'm really not sure about the need for a star midfielder. It would require one of our current starting midfielders to become depth, and I for one cannot see how any of them would be. And that's not to mention Bytel who probably be requiring a starting position by next year.

Of course, we have never seen our current midfield all playing at once, and it may be that it doesn't work out, but I see our current midfield group as good enough to win a flag. West Coast won a flag without any absolute star midfielders (and NicNat who is the closest thing to that not playing). Richmond was the same last year given how much of a forward Dusty has become. And then on the other hand, there are plenty of teams with great midfielders, including the stars, who could not get it done because of serious gaps in other parts of the ground. Think Geelong, Collingwood, Dogs, Freo (under Ross). I think that it's gotten to the point where improving our midfield will produce diminishing returns at the expense of other areas of the ground.

If we have the type of serious money to go big on a serious gun, I'd prefer we go an make a huge play for a key back to pair with Dougal. Noah Balta, or the like.
 
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