List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

George · Aug 22, 2021

Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

www.bigfooty.com

SaintsSeptember · May 26, 2021

g_TRAIN said:
Billings is a good kick but he doesn't attempt anything daring.. When have you ever seen him with a 45m cross into a leading player down the middle of the ground?

He usually just plays in a straight line

He has his moments.

https://www.afl.com.au/video/618390/boundary-brilliance-from-billings?videoId=618390&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1621677421001

gringo2011 · May 26, 2021

Ducky Tie said:
I'm not an advocate for trading Billings, but his kicking has not developed as it should have. He came in as a young player who was creative and pulled off very good kicks consistently. The last few years, he has become a player who takes a long time to decide what to do before generally going long and down the line. He doesn't hurt oppositions very much with his kicking. Still a solid kick nonetheless.

I rate his disposal very highly, he's probably the best in the side but he lacks competitiveness and looks mentally a little uncertain still. He reminds me of a kid just starting out in his first few years but he's already a free agent.

Ducky Tie · May 26, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I rate his disposal very highly, he's probably the best in the side but he lacks competitiveness and looks mentally a little uncertain still. He reminds me of a kid just starting out in his first few years but he's already a free agent.

I think kicks it reasonably well, but he doesn't pick teams apart with his kicking like I used to think he would. He certainly doesn't butcher it and is a nice kick to a player on the lead, but he looked like he would be one of the best kicks in the comp in his early days.

gringo2011 · May 26, 2021

Ducky Tie said:
I think kicks it reasonably well, but he doesn't pick teams apart with his kicking like I used to think he would. He certainly doesn't butcher it and is a nice kick to a player on the lead, but he looked like he would be one of the best kicks in the comp in his early days.

He's a boring player to watch, I never get super excited by his game that's for sure but he never really stinks it up either. Honestly think he's the one player I look back at stats and get surprised he's had so many touches. He's not like doesn't hurt teams like Rockliff or Seb, he's more doesn't hurt teams because he never holds the ball for long and tends to be the link between plays more than the architect. I rate him very highly but he's beige. I think I just crave the exciting days when we scored and ran the ball fast. We pressured and chased even when we'd lose. I think I hate Ratts 2021 footy worse than Richo footy and I wasn't a fan.

True Blue Saint · May 26, 2021

St Neil said:
I’ve seen him play. He is a nice player. I said that. But IMO you’re overrating him more than a fair bit. He probably would start in our midfield, but ATM our midfield is our greatest need and has been for a while.

If he’s as good as you think he is then Freo will accept his contractual demands. Apparently they have put an offer to him and he hasn’t accepted it. Sounds like they will need to pay more and they probably will. He will get his pay day.

Would you swap our 1st RDP and Brad Hill, plus pay some of Hill’s salary, in order to get him to the club? That’s what was suggested. I’m not reading a lot of support for that suggestion, but I’m willing to be persuaded otherwise.

Did we get Freo's 2nd back in that proposed deal as well?

Look, I agree that's a hefty price to pay, and probably a bit much in the scheme of things.

But we are lacking genuine class and clean skills in the midfield, and Cerra provides that in spades.

pluggeranddoc · May 26, 2021

Let's leave Cerra out of it, If Freo offered a straight swap of Acres for Hill what would you do?

parkeysainter · May 26, 2021

Split. Split again. Be prepared.

Mowman · May 26, 2021

parkeysainter said:
Split. Split again. Be prepared.

I think Jooohhny has split into someone else

Winmar2Lockett · May 26, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I'd take 20% of the time then. We have drafted one absolute gun since Goddard and that was Jack Steven who's career came and went without playing finals. We are criminally shithouse at drafting. Just pulling random names out of a hat would have got a better result and they wouldn't even have had to be players in the draft.

Our recent drafting looks to have remedied that.

gringo2011 · May 26, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
Our recent drafting looks to have remedied that.

Looks okay now but so did Acres and Dunstan at the same point. Paddy and Hugh were our star bookends and Billings was going to be better than Bont.

bird_man · May 26, 2021

parkeysainter said:
Split. Split again. Be prepared.

Why would we trade out of top end of the draft when there is a clear top 6 to 8 players before a drop off?

Tyrian Lonestar · May 26, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I rate his disposal very highly, he's probably the best in the side but he lacks competitiveness and looks mentally a little uncertain still. He reminds me of a kid just starting out in his first few years but he's already a free agent.

Yes he's still timid imo

Tyrian Lonestar · May 26, 2021

gringo2011 said:
He's a boring player to watch, I never get super excited by his game that's for sure but he never really stinks it up either. Honestly think he's the one player I look back at stats and get surprised he's had so many touches. He's not like doesn't hurt teams like Rockliff or Seb, he's more doesn't hurt teams because he never holds the ball for long and tends to be the link between plays more than the architect. I rate him very highly but he's beige. I think I just crave the exciting days when we scored and ran the ball fast. We pressured and chased even when we'd lose. I think I hate Ratts 2021 footy worse than Richo footy and I wasn't a fan.

I expected the boring bomb it long cr@p from Richo.
Thought Ratts gameplan would be far more exciting than it is in 2021. Yeah I know we have players put but our fwd entries are just sh1t and shots on goal are worse.
Atm it seems like all competitiveness has been drained out of the whole club.

Diehard Saint · May 26, 2021

BrutThough said:
And no one seemed to be melting when Coffield was taking the Dogs forward line apart in the last quarter of the final.

He's in a form slump no doubt, but he is only 21. Plenty of very good players experience form slumps.

If Coff is half the player he has already shown he can be, he will find his way out of it and become better a player because of it.

Yeah nah…let’s just throw the (literal) baby out with the bath water!

Diehard Saint · May 26, 2021

Yawkey way said:
I think we’ll keep our contracted player thanks, when he’s good he’s great and when he’s not we need someone to blame.

Post of the day

AirWinmar · May 27, 2021

Tyrian Lonestar said:
Yes he's still timid imo

Billings is an elite kick, also very considered and calculated in his approach to kicking. I've been saying it for ages, I wish he would take on more aggressive kicks. You can live with a turnover here and there, but that's why you draft a player like Billings. His conservative decision making I don't think has anything to do with timidness or competitiveness. I'd say it's more coaching and development. The other thing is, you actually need players to find space and lead to take those aggressive kicks. It's become more apparent with Hill who has often been holding the ball and trying to signal guys to move, but there's no action ahead of the ball

Sully111 · May 27, 2021

Billings might not be the most creative kick, but in a side that consistently turns the ball over with atrocious field kicking, he's not the one i'm looking to move on.
Basic afl level skill and disposal is an area we've been lacking for some time, papering over the cracks with manic pressure. I want us to be a team that uses the ball well. It'll solve a lot of problems.

Look at how Bruce is going this year with a midfield that can hit him up on a lead (not to mention a forward structure that actually works).

Watching Roo have the ball delivered at his ankles or over his head after we lost the likes of BJ and Dal was painful to watch.

We need good kicks.

Skill level is what i'm looking at with who we keep, and who we bring in. Yes i'm aware it's not the only factor, but it's a pretty big one, an an area we desperately need to improve.

gringo2011 · May 27, 2021

Sully111 said:
Billings might not be the most creative kick, but in a side that consistently turns the ball over with atrocious field kicking, he's not the one i'm looking to move on.
Basic afl level skill and disposal is an area we've been lacking for some time, papering over the cracks with manic pressure. I want us to be a team that uses the ball well. It'll solve a lot of problems.

Look at how Bruce is going this year with a midfield that can hit him up on a lead (not to mention a forward structure that actually works).

Watching Roo have the ball delivered at his ankles or over his head after we lost the likes of BJ and Dal was painful to watch.

We need good kicks.

Skill level is what i'm looking at with who we keep, and who we bring in. Yes i'm aware it's not the only factor, but it's a pretty big one, an an area we desperately need to improve.

It's an interesting one, the Dogs aren't necessarily outstanding disposers. They actually have some good users but none as clean as Billings, they have plenty of dare and assertiveness though. Their spread of mids mean that they can flick around by hand in tight until finding an option out wide who can then kick it under less pressure which makes them look better. Billings is very good at running out to space to be that kick too.

The crux of that is the Dogs midfield is weight of numbers more than elite ball use. We need to find 6 to 10 mids of high quality to match that or strategise against it. Our midfield playing against the deepest and best midfield possibly in history was Steele, Seb, Bytel, Crouch, Billings and guys like Byrnes playing like extra wings.

Steele is A grade, Crouch and Billings between A and B, Seb B, Bytel and Byrnes have played less than 20 games between them.

Against Libba best clearance player in the AFL this year, Treloar A grade+, Bont-Elite, Bailey Smith-A grade, McCrae- elite, Lauchie Hunter A-B grade. And they were missing a couple of their mids in that match.

Saintbloke · May 27, 2021

It just seems that the club undervalued the importance of powerful midfields over the last 6 years or so, and just tinkered around the edges with recruiting. That's history now. I almost feel like we should pick up Freeman again- good team man, and is probably more like R Harvey in his play now, ball magnet, and short step running, short passing player(not quite up to Harvs standard though)

ScrappyDo · May 27, 2021

Saintbloke said:
It just seems that the club undervalued the importance of powerful midfields over the last 6 years or so, and just tinkered around the edges with recruiting. That's history now. I almost feel like we should pick up Freeman again- good team man, and is probably more like R Harvey in his play now, ball magnet, and short step running, short passing player(not quite up to Harvs standard though)

In the last few years, we've lost Koby, Freezer and Hanners.
This year it's Gresh and Jones.

Some will say it's bad management but at least they've been trying to do something about it.

aussierulesrules · May 27, 2021

Yawkey way said:
Nether the less to pass on smith and rozee for Ming was a massive call, obviously we‘re all hoping it works out.

I would have thought after mccartin over Petracca we might have thought twice before going tall but clearly not.

It wasn’t really a massive call at all, especially from a long term POV.

Sam Maclure (who we supposedly run our info through since Lethlean arrived) was actually the one who reported it, pre draft in 2018:

Draft night: the story behind the picks
The live trading of picks for the first time will add a whole new element to the national draft, but we take a look behind the scenes into the thought processes of clubs as they prepare for draft night.

www.theage.com.au

“The Saints look set to take Max King at pick four, despite the difference of opinion internally.

National recruiting boss Chris Liberatore is a huge fan of South Australian midfield gun Connor Rozee, while head of footy Simon Lethlean has kept a close eye on King for years.

King – seen by many recruiters and list managers as the best player in the draft – would almost certainly have been taken at pick one had he not torn his ACL earlier this year.

It’s expected that Lethlean will win that debate, take King with four and then work on how to lure his brother Ben – likely to be taken at six by Gold Coast - back to Victoria in two years”

So Lethlean supposedly took the guy who many rated as the best in a genuine “superdraft”, who also happened to grow up 5 minutes from Moorabbin, and barrack for the club, and who also happened to have a twin brother, who also barracked for the club, and who would be a good chance of being drafted by an interstate club (thus being more “poachable” in coming years).

As for Paddy v Petracca, the mistake there was that we went tall over small for a different reason. Being that we thought it would cost too much to trade in a “tall”, so we’d just draft one of our own.

On the other hand I think we went with Max because he was “best available”, a “generational talent”, and also happened to be tall. And have a twin brother who also barracked for the club as a potential bonus.

aussierulesrules · May 27, 2021

ScrappyDo said:
In the last few years, we've lost Koby, Freezer and Hanners.
This year it's Gresh and Jones.

Some will say it's bad management but at least they've been trying to do something about it.

J Steven.

Armo also fell off a cliff (due to his back issues) just as he finally had his breakthrough year and showed everyone why he went top 10 in his draft. He’s still only 33yo.

bird_man · May 27, 2021

ScrappyDo said:
In the last few years, we've lost Koby, Freezer and Hanners.
This year it's Gresh and Jones.

Some will say it's bad management but at least they've been trying to do something about it.

We've taken one midfielder in the top 40 of the draft since we took Gresham. And we refuse to play the one we took in the midfield.

We've been a little unlucky with injuries but none of those are taking us to the promise land. We need to invest heavily in mids in the draft.

We should have taken Poulter last year instead of worrying about key position depth with our first pick. We need to cross our fingers a quality mid falls where our first does this year. There are a few in the draft but it will depend where our pick ends up.

bird_man · May 27, 2021

aussierulesrules said:
It wasn’t really a massive call at all, especially from a long term POV.

Sam Maclure (who we supposedly run our info through since Lethlean arrived) was actually the one who reported it, pre draft in 2018:

Draft night: the story behind the picks
The live trading of picks for the first time will add a whole new element to the national draft, but we take a look behind the scenes into the thought processes of clubs as they prepare for draft night.

www.theage.com.au

“The Saints look set to take Max King at pick four, despite the difference of opinion internally.

National recruiting boss Chris Liberatore is a huge fan of South Australian midfield gun Connor Rozee, while head of footy Simon Lethlean has kept a close eye on King for years.

King – seen by many recruiters and list managers as the best player in the draft – would almost certainly have been taken at pick one had he not torn his ACL earlier this year.

It’s expected that Lethlean will win that debate, take King with four and then work on how to lure his brother Ben – likely to be taken at six by Gold Coast - back to Victoria in two years”

So Lethlean supposedly took the guy who many rated as the best in a genuine “superdraft”, who also happened to grow up 5 minutes from Moorabbin, and barrack for the club, and who also happened to have a twin brother, who also barracked for the club, and who would be a good chance of being drafted by an interstate club (thus being more “poachable” in coming years).

As for Paddy v Petracca, the mistake there was that we went tall over small for a different reason. Being that we thought it would cost too much to trade in a “tall”, so we’d just draft one of our own.

On the other hand I think we went with Max because he was “best available”, a “generational talent”, and also happened to be tall. And have a twin brother who also barracked fir the club as a potential bonus.

I reckon if that draft was done again today, the only player taken ahead of King would be Walsh (or possibly Ben)

ScrappyDo · May 27, 2021

aussierulesrules said:
J Steven.

Armo also fell off a cliff (due to his back issues) just as he finally had his breakthrough year and showed everyone why he went top 10 in his draft. He’s still only 33yo.

Thanks ARR.

Can't help but wonder if we had Stuv, Armo, Hanners, Freezer and Koby on the list and functional.
We've been ravaged by early retirements unfortunately.

Log In or Create New Account

NFL Week 16 🏈 NCAA Bowls and Playoffs

List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

Premium Platinum

TheBrownDog

Premium Platinum

Norm Smith Medallist

Premium Platinum

Club Legend

All Australian

Rookie

Brownlow Medallist

Brownlow Medallist

Premium Platinum

Hall of Famer

Club Legend

Club Legend

Brownlow Medallist

Brownlow Medallist

Premiership Player

Norm Smith Medallist

Premium Platinum

Norm Smith Medallist

Brownlow Medallist

Premium Platinum

Premium Platinum

Hall of Famer

Hall of Famer

Brownlow Medallist

Similar threads