List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

George · Aug 22, 2021

Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

www.bigfooty.com

StCicatriz · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
When the AFL were worried about Brisbane being sh*t for too many years they sent in David Noble who is one of the most experienced operators in footy. He pretty much played the Neil Balme role at Adelaide while they were one of the most stable clubs in footy and culminated in them making a GF and being competitive despite having limited high draft picks. He moved to Brisbane and straightened everything out and they became a well drilled tough outfit on and off field.

Some how we got Lethlean who has no football experience inside club land and let him review and cull our list and even meddle in drafts and trades. I'm not blaming him for everything that goes wrong but he's a risky appointment. Then we get Gallagher as a list manager who is a guy from sales in the banking industry. Again no experience. I heard Matt Rendall suggest that Collingwood blew their cap by getting Ned Guy who had no experience in list management who f’ed it all up.

i don't singularly blame Lethers or Gags or Libba or Ratten or whomever else here. i think what the dept/system is producing is flawed.

but if you are looking at pure list management. they invested a significant amount of cap space and draft collateral in Hanners + Hill. there is absolutely no way they can escape that.

nor can you escape the decision making around how an acquisition like Hind was managed. you're just blowing picks/time/money.

bird_man · Jun 1, 2021

StCicatriz said:
i don't singularly blame Lethers or Gags or Libba or Ratten or whomever else here. i think what the dept/system is producing is flawed.

but if you are looking at pure list management. they invested a significant amount of cap space and draft collateral in Hanners + Hill. there is absolutely no way they can escape that.

nor can you escape the decision making around how an acquisition like Hind was managed. you're just blowing picks/time/money.

Definitely sounded like you were blaming Gallagher for the trade here...

StCicatriz said:
watching on the couch i am super super dirty on Gags trading out Hind for essentially nothing. just beggars belief.

it's every bit as bad as Ratts getting belted by 100 points.

StCicatriz · Jun 1, 2021

bird_man said:
Yes I have complained about not having enough under 21's on our list but that has nothing to do with what we got for Hind.

Pretty sure I've said plenty of times we should have taken Poulter, Highmore and then used the Hind pick on Jackson Callow?

We f’ed up the draft but that has little to do with the fact that we were never getting anymore than a late pick for Hind

so we ****ed up the draft. you think we should have used the picks. but you don't see a problem with the list management in terms of hind.

ok.

BrutThough · Jun 1, 2021

StCicatriz said:
right so because of how we structured the salary cap with the acquisitions of Hill + Hanners it meant we had to move on Bruce for what ever we could get?

which resulted in trading in someone who has a history of soft tissue injuries?

sounds like amazing list management!!!

Yes because thats exactly what happened

bird_man · Jun 1, 2021

StCicatriz said:
so we f’ed up the draft. you think we should have used the picks. but you don't see a problem with the list management in terms of hind.

ok.

Yes we ****ed up the draft

I see a problem that we refused to play Hind in his best position

I don't believe we could have got any more than a late pick for him

The fact the coaching staff refused to play him in his best position is not Gallaghers fault and he got no less than market value for Hind

Hope that is clear

StCicatriz · Jun 1, 2021

bird_man said:
Definitely sounded like you were blaming Gallagher for the trade here...

right isn't that what I said in that top post.

here let me put it in bold so you don't miss it:
but if you are looking at pure list management

last time I checked the key responsibility of the list manager is, surprise surprise, the LIST MANAGEMENT!

unless you think the problem is our list manager really isn't doing list management?

in actual fact, the age demographic of the list i.e. 1 18 year old, is a purely list management function. that's literally one of their major responsibilities, to make sure the demographic of the list is correct.

so you yourself actually distilled the problem right down to a list management function.

gringo2011 · Jun 1, 2021

bird_man said:
Lol

Colyer was 26 when he was traded

Hind was 26 when he was traded

Both were uncontracted fringe players that were in and out of the side when traded

Hind had only had the two seasons and was a recent acquisition. Colyer was like Dunstan where his first year was good but never lived up to the hopes. They'd had him for 8 years and he'd gone backwards. He was delist material and they got something back. Even at Freo he's filler. Hind was on our list and moved straight to another club where he's become not just an okay player, he's actually looking like he's in their best players and they have moved to a top 8 spot instead of us. It really ****ing sucks even if you don't want to apportion blame and believe it's all just luck.

BrutThough · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Hind had only had the two seasons and was a recent acquisition. Colyer was like Dunstan where his first year was good but never lived up to the hopes. They'd had him for 8 years and he'd gone backwards. He was delist material and they got something back. Even at Freo he's filler. Hind was on our list and moved straight to another club where he's become not just an okay player, he's actually looking like he's in their best players and they have moved to a top 8 spot instead of us. It really ******* sucks even if you don't want to apportion blame and believe it's all just luck.

Nothing Hind has done at Essendon has any bearing on what he should have been traded for.

gringo2011 · Jun 1, 2021

bird_man said:
Yes we f’ed up the draft

I see a problem that we refused to play Hind in his best position

I don't believe we could have got any more than a late pick for him

The fact the coaching staff refused to play him in his best position is not Gallaghers fault and he got no less than market value for Hind

Hope that is clear

We sent a VFL player down in value in 2 years. It was pretty poor considering that we failed to find him a spot. You'd think that you aren't bringing in a 26 year old just to develop him slowly.

gringo2011 · Jun 1, 2021

BrutThough said:
Nothing Hind has done at Essendon has any bearing on what he should have been traded for.

Unless you consider that we didn't manage him properly.

BrutThough · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Unless you consider that we didn't manage him properly.

These claims of mismanagement of him have got out of control.

I know there is this need to find blame for every little thing that happens but playing Paton, Clark, Coffield and Long ahead of Hind was not mismanagement. Finding a different position that Hind could play in our best 22 was not mismanagement. The same claims of mismanagement could be made if we had just kept him playing in the reserves at half back when there was a spot up forward that he could contribute in.

If it is acceptable for our Captain to be moved out of the backline to accommodate younger players performing better than him, than it is acceptable enough for Nick Bloody Hind to have to learn another role at AFL level because other players on our list were consistently performing at half back.

Mowman · Jun 1, 2021

BrutThough said:
These claims of mismanagement of him have got out of control.

I know there is this need to find blame for every little thing that happens but playing Paton, Clark, Coffield and Long ahead of Hind was not mismanagement. Finding a different position that Hind could play in our best 22 was not mismanagement. The same claims of mismanagement could be made if we had just kept him playing in the reserves at half back when there was a spot up forward that he could contribute in.

If it is acceptable for our Captain to be moved out of the backline to accommodate younger players performing better than him, than it is acceptable enough for Nick Bloody Hind to have to learn another role at AFL level because other players on our list were consistently performing at half back.

Nick Bloody Hind LOL

I like it

George · Jun 1, 2021

Apparently Nick Hind was one of the best rebounding half backs when we traded him

ScrappyDo · Jun 1, 2021

StCicatriz said:
i don't singularly blame Lethers or Gags or Libba or Ratten or whomever else here. i think what the dept/system is producing is flawed.

but if you are looking at pure list management. they invested a significant amount of cap space and draft collateral in Hanners + Hill. there is absolutely no way they can escape that.

nor can you escape the decision making around how an acquisition like Hind was managed. you're just blowing picks/time/money.

Sorry, you can cross Hanners off your list there. A large portion of his contract was front loaded out of minimum SC savings and there was NOBODY else interested to go to Seaford except Kent who we also overpaid and was probably headed for delistment at Melbs.
Hill has been a disaster I'll agree. Hanners was almost a free swing.

gringo2011 · Jun 1, 2021

BrutThough said:
These claims of mismanagement of him have got out of control.

I know there is this need to find blame for every little thing that happens but playing Paton, Clark, Coffield and Long ahead of Hind was not mismanagement. Finding a different position that Hind could play in our best 22 was not mismanagement. The same claims of mismanagement could be made if we had just kept him playing in the reserves at half back when there was a spot up forward that he could contribute in.

If it is acceptable for our Captain to be moved out of the backline to accommodate younger players performing better than him, than it is acceptable enough for Nick Bloody Hind to have to learn another role at AFL level because other players on our list were consistently performing at half back.

I actually think you'll find that it's Ratts game plan that requires your best kicks off half back. We don't really have players who can tuck the ball under their arm and run. Last year it worked but it's been superseded this season by teams moving the ball faster. Savage didn't get played either. Ratts hasn't been working with what we have he's trying to stick with his slow build up game where we don't have players that suit it. If we lose our depth every year we will get stuck with collapsing every time we have an injury like we are now.

No-one would care about Hind if we were playing well or could even see a plan that isn't there yet but on it's way. It's really hard to be positive after what they've dished up this year. There is hardly anything we are doing that is a win apart from Crouch. Most of our players seem to have stepped backwards or been injured. The coaching looks shit, the players are struggling, depth looks as thin as a Kmart jumper etc.

I just hope we start to review where the **** ups have happened so that we don't have another year like this again. Right now our biggest hopes are paying top dollar for the King that we didn't break and selling Billings off for a FRDP that might not even be reality and avoiding the drafts because we don't rate any players.

Bring on 2022, this one is done.

gringo2011 · Jun 1, 2021

George said:
Apparently Nick Hind was one of the best rebounding half backs when we traded him

Which when we drafted him he was one of the best rebounding half backs in the VFL and happened to be at the Bombers so they remembered what we drafted him as.

Mowman · Jun 1, 2021

ScrappyDo said:
Sorry, you can cross Hanners off your list there. A large portion of his contract was front loaded out of minimum SC savings and there was NOBODY else interested to go to Seaford except Kent who we also overpaid and was probably headed for delistment at Melbs.
Hill has been a disaster I'll agree. Hanners was almost a free swing.

Is it fact that we did front load his contract ?
If so what sort of money do we think he is on next year

KingsRansom · Jun 1, 2021

George said:
Apparently Nick Hind was one of the best rebounding half backs when we traded him

Just about cost us a flag and a second round pick by the sounds of it!!!

gringo2011 · Jun 1, 2021

ScrappyDo said:
Sorry, you can cross Hanners off your list there. A large portion of his contract was front loaded out of minimum SC savings and there was NOBODY else interested to go to Seaford except Kent who we also overpaid and was probably headed for delistment at Melbs.
Hill has been a disaster I'll agree. Hanners was almost a free swing.

I think someone said he's still on $600k a year. He was done though when we got him and it was a big risk. I think in hindsight drafting a bit more then would have been better management and hit the trades afterwards. Too late now, we gambled and it didn't pay off. Just got to make the next ones the right moves. To me we look a bit like Carlton. Going back to getting good high draft pick kids is the better option usually and then cherry pick for needs when you're close.

George · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Which when we drafted him he was one of the best rebounding half backs in the VFL and happened to be at the Bombers so they remembered what we drafted him as.

Yep and Paton, Clark, Coffield & Long all were having better seasons than he was so I don't understand how you could play him in that position and then criticise the club for trading him because of the depth we had at that position. You can't expect the club to have foresight to the level of knowing Long & Coffield would have form slumps and Paton would not play a game this year due to a broken leg.

I understand criticising the club when we let a player go that we could all see clearly had talent, but this is kind of ridiculous mate.

stavro#4 · Jun 1, 2021

Regardless of whether Hind should or shouldn’t have been traded.

he isn’t fixing the issues we have this season. He is a 27 year old footballer.

gringo2011 · Jun 1, 2021

George said:
Yep and Paton, Clark, Coffield & Long all were having better seasons than he was so I don't understand how you could play him in that position and then criticise the club for trading him because of the depth we had at that position. You can't expect the club to have foresight to the level of knowing Long & Coffield would have form slumps and Paton would not play a game this year due to a broken leg.

I understand criticising the club when we let a player go that we could all see clearly had talent, but this is kind of ridiculous mate.

They should have signed him up for just that reason. Have you ever seen a side that doesn't use any depth?

StCicatriz · Jun 1, 2021

George said:
Apparently Nick Hind was one of the best rebounding half backs when we traded him

that's Nick Hind the 2021 brownlow medalist thank you very much!

stavro#4 · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I think someone said he's still on $600k a year. He was done though when we got him and it was a big risk. I think in hindsight drafting a bit more then would have been better management and hit the trades afterwards. Too late now, we gambled and it didn't pay off. Just got to make the next ones the right moves. To me we look a bit like Carlton. Going back to getting good high draft pick kids is the better option usually and then cherry pick for needs when you're close.

I’m pretty sure Jon Ralph posted his stat averages for the games he played the other week. Didnt look like a finished footballer. Looked like an elite mid.

his knee was what screwed his last 12 months at Sydney. Strangely if I remember the human anatomy- it’s his hamstrings and calf’s that have ruined his time with us.

Mowman · Jun 1, 2021

stavro#4 said:
Regardless of whether Hind should or shouldn’t have been traded.

he isn’t fixing the issues we have this season. He is a 27 year old footballer.

How old are Frawley McKernan Hunter

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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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