List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

George · Aug 22, 2021

Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

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Moorabbin Ghost · Aug 7, 2021

g_TRAIN said:
I think we will offer Carlise a contract if we believe his body is up to it.

Good chance his back is shot through and he won't be able to make it back into the team.

Jake has played his last game for St Kilda.

gringo2011 · Aug 7, 2021

DarkSaint said:
JB should be offered 350K and then another 150K in terms of performance based add ons such as finishing top 10 and then top 5 in the BNF. He has milked us enough over the years when we needed to hit our minimum cap. Time for him to perform or move on. If we offer him an more than that, I'd be pissed. Same goes for Seb Ross. We need to get our payments in order as we seem to over pay a lot more than other clubs do.

Sounds good but can't see how we get them for that. Perhaps $400k plus bonuses but even then it's probably a $250k a year drop in income.

CaptainRisky · Aug 7, 2021

hangdog said:
Given the Eagles poor showings of late I'm stunned they aren't giving guys like Brander more of a go. I rate him.

Jack Payne from Brisbane would be a good fix for us, given our likely mass exodus of key defenders (Carlisle, Roberton, Frawley all gone, one of Clav or Joyce wouldn't surprise me either if they were gone). Unfortunately, he's been given a bit more game time this season.

Talia from Croms is interesting. Might not get a contract, he'd have 2-3 decent years left in him. I'd take him for some insurance. Be a much better option than Frawley anyway.

Talia ,,,, He hasn't been able to get on the park this year and is done as a footballer IMO , has dropped off the cliff in the last few years , Payne is contracted till the end of next year

Saint_Dos · Aug 7, 2021

Mowman said:
Billing’s - Dunstan and the Goat picks 3 - 18 and 19

We chose poorly

Or did we just develop them poorly?

A lot thought Billings was a pretty good choice, elite ball user. Exactly what we needed
Those who said we say we should have gone Bont are doing so in hindsight imo

I reckon we made the right choice at the time but developed him poorly and rather than encouraging him to take the game on tried to get him to play within a set framework. That and his case of the yips a few years back stifled him.

Dunstan and Acres have both had there moments and once again I do wonder if we had developed them better if they would be different players.

Minga · Aug 7, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Still better than 2014. Paddy, Hugh, DMac and Lonie. Collingwood that year took De Goey, Darcy Moore and Brayden Maynard. Melbourne took Petracca, Brayshaw, Neal-Bullen and Oscar Mc Donald. Bulldogs got Bailey Dale, Caleb Daniel and Cordy after not having a first round pick also Toby McLean and Lucas Webb.

Those poor draft years are the ones that we are paying for still. Good drafting is still what gives you the best chance at a premiership. Hopefully we are going to look at the last few drafts and wonder how we arsed so man guns.

I literally cannot stress how much I want to move out of the period where those draft years are screwing us over. The early to mid 2010s are just

. The positive thing is that we have been very good with our drafting (granted our picks) since. It’s just this lame transition period which isn’t helping, but if we continue with our drafting form this year it’ll be absolutely stellar.

Saint_Dos · Aug 7, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Still better than 2014. Paddy, Hugh, DMac and Lonie. Collingwood that year took De Goey, Darcy Moore and Brayden Maynard. Melbourne took Petracca, Brayshaw, Neal-Bullen and Oscar Mc Donald. Bulldogs got Bailey Dale, Caleb Daniel and Cordy after not having a first round pick also Toby McLean and Lucas Webb.

Those poor draft years are the ones that we are paying for still. Good drafting is still what gives you the best chance at a premiership. Hopefully we are going to look at the last few drafts and wonder how we arsed so man guns.

Paddy and Hugh were both unlucky.

If Petracca was the one who had coped the concussions and been delisted early, and Moore had ruptured his achilles we would be saying what great drafting we did. Significant injuries are not the reason for being deemed as poor drafting. Thats luck.
Goddard looked like we had got ourselves a bargain prior to that injury and as we have seen with King KPF's need time to get going. If Paddy had of stayed concussion free I reckon we would have had a gun.

No doubt the luck/development/drafting has cost us over those years but it does not just come down to drafting. Thats more like Carlton choosing Boekhurst or GWS taking O'Rourke

Mowman · Aug 7, 2021

Saint_Dos said:
Or did we just develop them poorly?

A lot thought Billings was a pretty good choice, elite ball user. Exactly what we needed
Those who said we say we should have gone Bont are doing so in hindsight imo

I reckon we made the right choice at the time but developed him poorly and rather than encouraging him to take the game on tried to get him to play within a set framework. That and his case of the yips a few years back stifled him.

Dunstan and Acres have both had there moments and once again I do wonder if we had developed them better if they would be different players.

Could very much be the case, I have doubts about how we are developing Clark and Coff

Saint_Dos · Aug 7, 2021

Mowman said:
Could very much be the case, I have doubts about how we are developing Clark and Coff

Yeah we have been focusing to much on players playing in multiple positions and I often wonder at what expense.
Particularly when they are young. Get them good/great at a specific role, then they can expand into others.

DarkSaint · Aug 7, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Sounds good but can't see how we get them for that. Perhaps $400k plus bonuses but even then it's probably a $250k a year drop in income.

I would be more than happy to let them walk and collect 2 2nd rounders for both. Over the last few years, they have not been anywhere near good enough to warrant being paid anymore as they simply don't win enough matches off their own boot. For 500k I'm expect players to be pushing close to the 40 man AA squad. Not being miles off it

Mowman · Aug 7, 2021

Saint_Dos said:
Yeah we have been focusing to much on players playing in multiple positions and I often wonder at what expense.
Particularly when they are young. Get them good/great at a specific role, then they can expand into others.

Throw in Battle what we have done to him is so poor

70s sainter · Aug 7, 2021

Great to see Hanners taking a reduced wage in 22 to give a bit back to tbe club to use on other players and prob take some of the pressure off himself a bit too. Whether he made the decision himself or was talked into it , he deserves some credit and walk around the club with his head held high . Showing some good leadership here despite the lack of games so far.
If Billings does the same as well as a heap of de listings we ll be a lot bettef off finacilly in 2022

Remboy · Aug 7, 2021

70s sainter said:
Great to see Hanners taking a reduced wage in 22 to give a bit back to tbe club to use on other players and prob take some of the pressure off himself a bit too. Whether he made the decision himself or was talked into it , he deserves some credit and walk around the club with his head held high . Showing some good leadership here despite the lack of games so far.
If Billings does the same as well as a heap of de listings we ll be a lot bettef off finacilly in 2022

Re Hannebery, I’ve posted the full article in the media thread.

Winmar2Lockett · Aug 7, 2021

Ephemeral Hope said:
Interesting that Dunstan cops all the heat yet Crouch gets off with nothing. Had an objectively worse game in disposal efficiency, disposals and HALF THE CLEARANCES. We say there’s too many players that do the same thing but every team does need one player good for a bag of disposals and just thumping it down the other end for a clearance and metres gained. Every team does it even the good ones. Dunstan is genuinely capable of that but not other roles. Steele is capable of much more so we should be utilising his other strengths and letting Dunstan do what he’s good at. Crouch should carve out another niche cause he’s good enough to find one but Dunstan can absolutely play the role of the (only) grunt and clearance machine if everyone else is playing clean disposal footy.

Probably because Crouch has had a very good year and Dunstan had 4 weeks of good footy.

Dunstan has somehow become revered on here after his burst of good (wet w

ScrappyDo said:
Sure.
With JB I can appreciate his qualities but I've seen too may times that he avoids the hard contest. I get that he's a manlett and it's not his thing but when it's your turn you've just got to go like Dmac does. I don't suggest it's intentional per se, but I do think that he's fallen into the mentality of not risking getting hurt and is largely a seagull all the time. Even Hill is putting him to shame in that department these days. JB and Dmac are the same size and weight so there's no excuse for it. If you're an oppo player you'll know that you only need to body-line the ball and JB will let you have it. I want players that are uncompromising and JB is the opposite of this and I don't like the example it sets.
On top of that is the goal kicking which need no explanation.
I believe we have the cattle to cover his output and will also bring their own qualities to the table, and I'll take Snaggs or Gresh ahead of JB every day of the week.

Seb I'd be happy with if he was a dedicated tagger on little money and in and out of the side as required. Unfortunately because he's very mobile and can fill several rolls he's picked every week. IMO he's often one of, if not the first to give a half arsed effort or team killing disposal which is all too often right at the moment the whips are cracking and it's visibly the moment we break. Include the fact he tends to get a lot of the ball and tends to dispose of it poorly he's the single most deflating player by a huge margin. The shear volume of plays that break down off of Sebs disposal or decision making is his primary influence on game day all too often.

I know you won't agree because we've had this conversation last year too. Since then my opinion hasn't changed, and neither I suspect has yours. So unless you're ready to concede that you've change your mind or were wrong in the first place there's no need to whip a dead horse on this one.

I think the 'Billings is soft' line is the greatest load of BS that St Kilda supporters carry on with. I haven't seen him shirk a contest since his 2nd year, in fact he's a super courageous player and goes hard at the pill when he needs to. His tackling is usually on a par with anyone not named Steele, Long or Crouch. The 1 tackle in the past 3 weeks is more related to his inability to get to contests than anything to do with intent.

Bag him for his kicking and his ability to really influence games for all means.

Sully111 · Aug 7, 2021

Didn't see a lot in Narkle last night to make me think he should be a target.

Maybe i'm missing something.

Hayes4PM · Aug 7, 2021

Sully111 said:
Didn't see a lot in Narkle last night to make me think he should be a target.

Maybe i'm missing something.

Not many looked good for Geelong last night, Clark and Henry probably the best of their younger players.

But in general I’d agree about Narkle, looks like good depth for a team but not much else.

CaptainRisky · Aug 7, 2021

There seems to always be a lot of stacks on going on in here regarding the development

Who on here really knows what development goes on at the club and how much time goes into the lads , I'm pretty sure no one knows , have you ever thought we maybe drafting the wrong player ?
Take Battle for instance ,2nd round pick 39 , In my eyes that's a third round pick . Anyway people on here said at the time when we drafted him he was a steal at 39 .
Maybe he went 39 for a reason ? I must admit i was and am still a fan of Josh but he seems to have a few flaws, I don't think he can play on the bigger key forwards , he has great endurance but is not quick and is agility is very average , once he gets up to speed running he cant change direction at all.
I still have hope for him but just not sure where his spot is , maybe forward where he can lead up at the ball ?
Coff and Clark both just need to put their heads down this pre season and get themselves fit , Next year will be their 5th year , time to make your mark boys.

And as Mowman said
Billing’s - Dunstan and the Goat

picks 3 - 18 and 19
We chose poorly

gringo2011 · Aug 7, 2021

Saint_Dos said:
Or did we just develop them poorly?

A lot thought Billings was a pretty good choice, elite ball user. Exactly what we needed
Those who said we say we should have gone Bont are doing so in hindsight imo

I reckon we made the right choice at the time but developed him poorly and rather than encouraging him to take the game on tried to get him to play within a set framework. That and his case of the yips a few years back stifled him.

Dunstan and Acres have both had there moments and once again I do wonder if we had developed them better if they would be different players.

With Dunny he played a near full season at 24 where his numbers improved but his disposal efficiency was abysmal. Steele came good at 24. After that Dunny had 2 games before injury gave him another go. Since he came back he has gone from 49% to 67% DE he's not far behind Steele now and his first game of the year was his shocker against Richmond where he had 16 possessions at a low DE. Still averages 25.7 possessions a game, 5 tackles and 6.2 clearances. 4th in stoppage clearance per game, 16th in clearances PG and 11th for inside 50s PG this year. Dunny suffered from having no second position and Acres suffered from never getting given a position to learn.

Billings was a HF that we hoped to develop into a mid which in hindsight was a bad idea. He was definitely the player most expected to go at that pick so a safe choice. Bont's rise up the draft order was legendary, I always wonder if the Nicholas Winmar fail put us off going for Dal's cousin. He was still risk to take him that high because he had a higher ceiling but higher bust factor. We seem to have gone safe and failed and gone risk on others and failed. We do seem unlucky, it's like if we bet our house on a horse it would get stuck backwards in the mounting gates after starting favourite.

gringo2011 · Aug 7, 2021

Saint_Dos said:
Paddy and Hugh were both unlucky.

If Petracca was the one who had coped the concussions and been delisted early, and Moore had ruptured his achilles we would be saying what great drafting we did. Significant injuries are not the reason for being deemed as poor drafting. Thats luck.
Goddard looked like we had got ourselves a bargain prior to that injury and as we have seen with King KPF's need time to get going. If Paddy had of stayed concussion free I reckon we would have had a gun.

No doubt the luck/development/drafting has cost us over those years but it does not just come down to drafting. Thats more like Carlton choosing Boekhurst or GWS taking O'Rourke

Carlton have been similar in shit drafting until recently. Petracca was a safe bet best player that year. Paddy had diabetes and even at the time was a weird one. Goddard was a gun in his under 17s but slowed down and others grew as big as him. He looked like he was worth a gamble though. On the forums people had us taking Caleb Daniel where we took Lone Dog. Probably as big a miss as Petracca.

gringo2011 · Aug 7, 2021

Mowman said:
Could very much be the case, I have doubts about how we are developing Clark and Coff

I think they need to take responsibility. Both given every opportunity and have been pretty happy being adored by fans without doing any more than they are. Hunter looks unfit and if he wants to play mid he needs to hit the track over summer. It's more with them that they get every opportunity but it may have come too easy for them until now. Dunstan got going after a pretty hard kick in the balls. Plenty of our players are a bit laissez-faire because there isn't a lot of pushing high standards on them. That's when a Brendan Goddard or Riewoldt would be handy.

gringo2011 · Aug 7, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
Probably because Crouch has had a very good year and Dunstan had 4 weeks of good footy.

Dunstan has somehow become revered on here after his burst of good (wet w

I think the 'Billings is soft' line is the greatest load of BS that St Kilda supporters carry on with. I haven't seen him shirk a contest since his 2nd year, in fact he's a super courageous player and goes hard at the pill when he needs to. His tackling is usually on a par with anyone not named Steele, Long or Crouch. The 1 tackle in the past 3 weeks is more related to his inability to get to contests than anything to do with intent.

Bag him for his kicking and his ability to really influence games for all means.

Dunny has played 9 good games and has our second most coaches votes. He's at 35 in player rating off this form. People not rating his season are just slow to wake up. Second highest ranked Saint behind Steele. His turn around has been incredible.

TheEnsign · Aug 7, 2021

Hanners takes a voluntary pay cut. Seems like Billings may go, and his contract would have been significant; he was playing great football in the first half of 2019 when he signed.

Snake won't be on huge money but surely that comes off the books too, he looks to be cooked unfortunately and wasn't getting selected before the injury.

Max already locked away. Where does the money get spent?

EconomicDecline · Aug 7, 2021

If he’s dropped the weight and got his diabetes under control, bring back Paddy and play him at CHB

Desperate saint · Aug 7, 2021

Saint_Dos said:
Paddy and Hugh were both unlucky.

If Petracca was the one who had coped the concussions and been delisted early, and Moore had ruptured his achilles we would be saying what great drafting we did. Significant injuries are not the reason for being deemed as poor drafting. Thats luck.
Goddard looked like we had got ourselves a bargain prior to that injury and as we have seen with King KPF's need time to get going. If Paddy had of stayed concussion free I reckon we would have had a gun.

No doubt the luck/development/drafting has cost us over those years but it does not just come down to drafting. Thats more like Carlton choosing Boekhurst or GWS taking O'Rourke

But if you do your research on diabetes -you will see things like- its more difficult to lose weight-suffer spikes and lows in blood sugar during physical activity and the big one is- far more susceptible to concussion and slower healing and recovery times from injury -paddy was an early maturer who dominated at the school level with his physical advantage -it was a shocking amateurish stuff -up

KingsRansom · Aug 7, 2021

gringo2011 said:
With Dunny he played a near full season at 24 where his numbers improved but his disposal efficiency was abysmal. Steele came good at 24. After that Dunny had 2 games before injury gave him another go. Since he came back he has gone from 49% to 67% DE he's not far behind Steele now and his first game of the year was his shocker against Richmond where he had 16 possessions at a low DE. Still averages 25.7 possessions a game, 5 tackles and 6.2 clearances. 4th in stoppage clearance per game, 16th in clearances PG and 11th for inside 50s PG this year. Dunny suffered from having no second position and Acres suffered from never getting given a position to learn.

Billings was a HF that we hoped to develop into a mid which in hindsight was a bad idea. He was definitely the player most expected to go at that pick so a safe choice. Bont's rise up the draft order was legendary, I always wonder if the Nicholas Winmar fail put us off going for Dal's cousin. He was still risk to take him that high because he had a higher ceiling but higher bust factor. We seem to have gone safe and failed and gone risk on others and failed. We do seem unlucky, it's like if we bet our house on a horse it would get stuck backwards in the mounting gates after starting favourite.

Dare I say it, but Owens is having a Bont like charge up the rankings atm. COVID breaks might be a blessing in disguise to the saints this year. Kid has been stellar

Tommy Wigs · Aug 7, 2021

TheEnsign said:
Hanners takes a voluntary pay cut. Seems like Billings may go, and his contract would have been significant; he was playing great football in the first half of 2019 when he signed.

Snake won't be on huge money but surely that comes off the books too, he looks to be cooked unfortunately and wasn't getting selected before the injury.

Max already locked away. Where does the money get spent?

Paying back Steele

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