List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

[George]

Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.

www.bigfooty.com

Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino

38

Oscar Clavarino

Age

26

Ht

197cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Def

No player stats available

Sam Alabakis

45

Sam Alabakis

Age

28

Ht

211cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

No player stats available

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle

2

Jake Carlisle

Age

34

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

8.7

3star

HB

4.9

4star

M

6.2

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

116.3

2star

D

11.7

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

5.9

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

12.4

4star

K

6.4

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

6.6

5star

T

0.8

3star

Dylan Roberton

17

Dylan Roberton

Age

34

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

373.2

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

7.0

3star

HB

1.0

1star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

MG

215.0

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

Shaun McKernan

27

Shaun Mckernan

Age

35

Ht

196cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.4

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

17.0

5star

K

8.2

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.2

3star

James Frawley

24

James Frawley

Age

37

Ht

193cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.2

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

5.1

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

135.4

2star

D

8.7

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.9

2star

MG

135.4

2star

D

9.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.2

3star

Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan

27

Luke Dunstan

Age

30

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.7

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.6

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

9.0

5star

CL

2.0

4star

D

18.2

5star

K

6.0

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

6.2

5star

CL

4.2

5star

(RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie

13

Jack Lonie

Age

29

Ht

175cm

Wt

70kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.8

4star

G

0.9

4star

D

10.7

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

13.4

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.0

4star

- Link
25. Dean Kent

25

Dean Kent

Age

31

Ht

181cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

10.4

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.0

4star

G

1.2

5star

D

7.6

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.0

5star

G

0.6

3star

- Link
39. Darragh Joyce

41

Darragh Joyce

Age

28

Ht

195cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.4

3star

MG

207.6

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.4

4star

MG

207.6

4star

- Link
41. Paul Hunter

41

Paul Hunter

Age

32

Ht

200cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Ruck

No player stats available

- Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

www.bigfooty.com

Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)

 

[St Neil]

They don't care , they have to make up filler material for weeks.
Must be one of the worst media gigs in the AFL world.

They could get creative and think of intelligent things to say. Silvagni’s comments today were just strange.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The thing to remember is that draft rules apply within the Trades Practices Act. It gets dicey when players lose rights that they already have. If players are told they cannot go to a club of their choice then it won’t be long until someone challenges the AFL rules. It only takes one maverick to cause problems.

The old restrain of trade chestnut would then be tested against the AFL rules. The general consensus is that the AFL would be, at best, uncertain if their rules would hold up. And it’s not in anyone’s interests to test those rules.

This is the greatest impediment to giving clubs more power and flexibility in trading their players, even if free agency rules were substantially reduced and relaxed to the benefit of the players.

Hasten slowly and with caution. Over time these things may organically change. But it will require industry acceptance among ALL key stakeholders.

Its not absolutely clear i think.

Within the frame of the AFL system, there are ways for players to change clubs.
If the AFL is considered the employing agency, its not dissimilar to a big company.
In a big company you want to work elsewhere, you can ask to be moved elsewhere and they may or may not accommodate your request it or perhaps compromise.
That's not like saying you can just go and work for any division of the company you decide you want to go to.

 

[hangdog]

The thing to remember is that draft rules apply within the Trades Practices Act. It gets dicey when players lose rights that they already have. If players are told they cannot go to a club of their choice then it won’t be long until someone challenges the AFL rules. It only takes one maverick to cause problems.

The old restrain of trade chestnut would then be tested against the AFL rules. The general consensus is that the AFL would be, at best, uncertain if their rules would hold up. And it’s not in anyone’s interests to test those rules.

This is the greatest impediment to giving clubs more power and flexibility in trading their players, even if free agency rules were substantially reduced and relaxed to the benefit of the players.

Hasten slowly and with caution. Over time these things may organically change. But it will require industry acceptance among ALL key stakeholders.

Spot on. Get rid of NGA's and the QLD/NSW academies all together. It's a farce the Swans and Giants especially have had extra round 1 and 2 picks for several years, and worse, at a discount!

I'd be happy for the Father/Son to remain but without the 20% discount. You're already getting special access to someone above your finishing position. Why should you get a further leg up?

The AFL might be at its most unequal currently. 22 round season, NGA's benefitting half the clubs at best, Father/Sons benefitting the same clubs constantly, fixtures prioritising power clubs over fairness, 50 year deals with the MCG to host the GF, Half the clubs sharing their home grounds with multiple other clubs, etc.

 

[George]

Just as I suspected.
Too much fluoride in your water supply over there I reckon.
View attachment 1248960

I reckon the right reply there was:

“My bad, it's parma…”

Then,

“Just as I suspected.
Too much fluoride in your water supply over there I reckon.”

 

[St Neil]

Its not absolutely clear i think.

Within the frame of the AFL system, there are ways for players to change clubs.
If the AFL is considered the employing agency, its not dissimilar to a big company.
In a big company you want to work elsewhere, you can ask to be moved elsewhere and they may or may not accommodate your request it or perhaps compromise.
That's not like saying you can just go and work for any division of the company you decide you want to go to.

Is the AFL the employer? Or are the clubs?

Do players have the right to choose their own employer?

Does the AFL have the right to prevent employment if another employer is prepared to employ the employee?

It is very murky. The AFL rules may hold up, but it is far from certain. The AFL has mechanisms that allows player movement, but are they restrictive and unreasonable under the Trade Practices Act?

If the AFL lost then all the competition trading rules are blown up. It becomes a free for all and the competition gets dominated by the big and powerful clubs. I don’t think anyone really wants these things tested.

 

[MickG88]

Any one for Lachie O'brien? Get him cheap and try to turn him into a decent footballer. I mean we lowball Carlton bad, Say future 5th round pick.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I used to feel this way until I found out it's a very bad idea to eat apex predators en masse.

Since then I haven't eaten flake.

(Nor have I indulged in bear, eagle, lion or tiger too- as difficult as that has been as I do have a sweet tooth for bear claw)

They’re not Apex Predators though. Gummy shark are the cutest most harmless sharks around. Tasty too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gummy_shark

 

[The_Steadier]

Is the AFL the employer? Or are the clubs?

Both/ flip a coin.

Player contracts are tripartite agreements between the league, the player and the club.

The player gets paid by the club.... but the clubs player payments are wholly funded by the league.

It certainly would be interesting to see who courts would decide 'control' the players and are therefore their employers.

As for the spectre of 'restraint of trade', i think that's jumping at shadows.
Limiting players to only nominating states, not specific clubs is far less trampling on 'players rights' than forcing them into the national draft and being sent anywhere.

They’re not Apex Predators though. Gummy shark are the cutest most harmless sharks around. Tasty too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gummy_shark

Yeah but 90% of School Sharks have disappeared as a result of catching all those adorable, delicious gummys.

School shark, sold as 'flake' in Australian fish and chip shops, listed overseas as critically endangered

Species classed as ‘conservation dependent’ under national laws so can be commercially traded despite suffering 90% drop in numbers

amp.theguardian.com

 

[PlayerNumber9]

Will it be approved if I argue semantics and miss points completely? It's edgy and rebellious to nitpick the mods comments. I should wear sunglasses next time I do it.

No George, you forget the sunglasses, I want to see you change you avatar so DMac is wearing sunglasses - now that would be cool!


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Ailurus]

They’re not Apex Predators though. Gummy shark are the cutest most harmless sharks around. Tasty too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gummy_shark

Maybe not super related to footy but most flake isn't gummy shark even though by law you can't call it flake unless it is gummy. The fishing industry isn't well regulated and many people will just sell any shark as flake, many of which are predators or endangered.

 

[pebblesofsand]

The thing to remember is that draft rules apply within the Trades Practices Act. It gets dicey when players lose rights that they already have. If players are told they cannot go to a club of their choice then it won’t be long until someone challenges the AFL rules. It only takes one maverick to cause problems.

The old restrain of trade chestnut would then be tested against the AFL rules. The general consensus is that the AFL would be, at best, uncertain if their rules would hold up. And it’s not in anyone’s interests to test those rules.

This is the greatest impediment to giving clubs more power and flexibility in trading their players, even if free agency rules were substantially reduced and relaxed to the benefit of the players.

Hasten slowly and with caution. Over time these things may organically change. But it will require industry acceptance among ALL key stakeholders.

Every time a player requests a trade when they are contracted must send shivers through the AFLPA.

At some point the clubs will say to the AFLPA - if your members keep doing this then we should have the right to trade contracted players.

 

[Sun Ra]

Both/ flip a coin.

Player contracts are tripartite agreements between the league, the player and the club.

The player gets paid by the club.... but the clubs player payments are wholly funded by the league.

It certainly would be interesting to see who courts would decide 'control' the players and are therefore their employers.

As for the spectre of 'restraint of trade', i think that's jumping at shadows.
Limiting players to only nominating states, not specific clubs is far less trampling on 'players rights' than forcing them into the national draft and being sent anywhere.




Yeah but 90% of School Sharks have disappeared as a result of catching all those adorable, delicious gummys.

School shark, sold as 'flake' in Australian fish and chip shops, listed overseas as critically endangered

Species classed as ‘conservation dependent’ under national laws so can be commercially traded despite suffering 90% drop in numbers

amp.theguardian.com

Not to mention skate and stingrays as well.

 

[St Neil]

Spot on. Get rid of NGA's and the QLD/NSW academies all together. It's a farce the Swans and Giants especially have had extra round 1 and 2 picks for several years, and worse, at a discount!

I'd be happy for the Father/Son to remain but without the 20% discount. You're already getting special access to someone above your finishing position. Why should you get a further leg up?

The AFL might be at its most unequal currently. 22 round season, NGA's benefitting half the clubs at best, Father/Sons benefitting the same clubs constantly, fixtures prioritising power clubs over fairness, 50 year deals with the MCG to host the GF, Half the clubs sharing their home grounds with multiple other clubs, etc.

There is another option. Similar to the NRL. Clubs have a salary cap but players have complete freedom of movement when uncontracted and are only restricted by the salary cap limits of the clubs.

In other words, an uncontracted player is an unrestricted free agent.

Players that want to go other clubs while contracted can be traded if their club agrees. There are no restraint of trade issues with that. A contract is a contract.

Clubs that best manage their salary cap and list management would be most likely to succeed.

Still have the draft and draft picks, but mandate 3 year contracts to all draftees, and have freedom of movement after the first contract is completed. The salary cap would be the great leveller but would need to be forensically checked by the AFL for compliance.

I’m agnostic about it but it’s an alternative model.

 

[The_Steadier]

stingrays as well.

Just so we stay in the mods good books and on topic, of course you meant the dandenong variety

 

[bird_man]

Just realised we signed Brad Hill for 6 years.

I always thought it was 4.

FMD that's looking like a bad contract

 

[St Neil]

Every time a player requests a trade when they are contracted must send shivers through the AFLPA.

At some point the clubs will say to the AFLPA - if your members keep doing this then we should have the right to trade contracted players.

This is potentially the flash point where there could be conflict. I think the clubs see the danger in pushing this barrow though.

 

[saintsmania]

Just realised we signed Brad Hill for 6 years.

I always thought it was 4.

FMD that's looking like a bad contract

I think it's 5+1, depends on how he goes in his 5th year..may have a trigger for games played etc.

 

[jh38]

There is another option. Similar to the NRL. Clubs have a salary cap but players have complete freedom of movement when uncontracted and are only restricted by the salary cap limits of the clubs.

In other words, an uncontracted player is an unrestricted free agent.

Players that want to go other clubs while contracted can be traded if their club agrees. There are no restraint of trade issues with that. A contract is a contract.

Clubs that best manage their salary cap and list management would be most likely to succeed.

Still have the draft and draft picks, but mandate 3 year contracts to all draftees, and have freedom of movement after the first contract is completed. The salary cap would be the great leveller but would need to be forensically checked by the AFL for compliance.

I’m agnostic about it but it’s an alternative model.

It sounds good but I'm not too sure interstate clubs would be happy considering most of the draft pool is from Victoria and some of those players could just up and leave. It works better in the NRL because there's only one team that's not from NSW or QLD and they're constantly competing for a premiership. Hard to see clubs like Gold Coast surviving unless they get more zones.

 

[The_Steadier]

Just realised we signed Brad Hill for 6 years.

I always thought it was 4.

FMD that's looking like a bad contract

This says 5.

Done deal! Hill departs Freo for St Kilda

Bradley Hill has officially been traded to St Kilda today, taking up a big money, five-year deal at Moorabbin.

thewest.com.au

Edit: and then later says 6.

 

[St Neil]

Just realised we signed Brad Hill for 6 years.

I always thought it was 4.

FMD that's looking like a bad contract

I thought it was 5 years.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Just realised we signed Brad Hill for 6 years.

I always thought it was 4.

FMD that's looking like a bad contract

Had the same thought earlier today. Was looking at our salary estimates and aside from Hill they are all pretty good. Billings down to a contract closer to his output. Crouch on a fair deal of about 600. King locked in for four years post 2022 at 750. If it wasn't for the Hill deal we wouldn't be overpaying anyone. Hill on 800 odd is about 200-300k too high unfortunately and for so many years.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Every time a player requests a trade when they are contracted must send shivers through the AFLPA.

At some point the clubs will say to the AFLPA - if your members keep doing this then we should have the right to trade contracted players.

They can request and the club has the right to say yes or no.
Similarly the club can ask if they will be traded and the player has the right to say yes or no.

No point having contracts if there is not at least some measure of security.
For example if Hanneberry right now said he wanted to be traded, you could twist the club's arm.

 

[St Neil]

It sounds good but I'm not too sure interstate clubs would be happy considering most of the draft pool is from Victoria and some of those players could just up and leave. It works better in the NRL because there's only one team that's not from NSW or QLD and they're constantly competing for a premiership. Hard to see clubs like Gold Coast surviving unless they get more zones.

I agree but the salary cap would be the great leveller. Clubs couldn’t horde all of the best players because they couldn’t afford to pay them all. Plus the interstate clubs could tempt the elite locals to play with them.

Clubs would need to work harder to develop good cultures and environments that enable them to keep the players they draft. Not sure a club like Gold Coast has done this well enough. It’s in their hands to improve themselves.

Swings and roundabouts. But if the AFL rules were blown up it could be Plan B.

 

[Sun Ra]

Barrett: "SOS, you're here for Chemist Warehouse as always (?) ....." - says it all.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Good, I'm glad the Dogs were devastated we took him. Now take him back for your future 1st please.

Bob is working for the Dockers now


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