Analysis 2021 trade thread

[lionsfooty1]

No Carlton rejects for me.

Yep - chasing delisted / fringe players from average clubs isn't the answer. Gotta think with Rayner, Hipwood and McStay healthy the team's heading into a grand final. Needs are pace off the backline (Birchall retiring is a plus) and potentially a big-bodied midfielder if the right player is available.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yep - chasing delisted / fringe players from average clubs isn't the answer. Gotta think with Rayner, Hipwood and McStay healthy the team's heading into a grand final.

But that's the problem, Hipwood won't be healthy for most of next year. That's why it's worth considering a short-term veteran who can play in his place and also offer a chop out in the ruck so Daniher doesn't have to. Fullarton plays that role now, and while he's capable of improving, I don't think he put in any convincing performances this year, and I wouldn't want to depend on him figuring it all out by next year.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

But that's the problem, Hipwood won't be healthy for most of next year. That's why it's worth considering a short-term veteran who can play in his place and also offer a chop out in the ruck so Daniher doesn't have to. Fullarton plays that role now, and while he's capable of improving, I don't think he put in any convincing performances this year, and I wouldn't want to depend on him figuring it all out by next year.

Maybe we should try to poach a delisted free agent such as a Casboult (Carlton) or Lynch (Adelaide) on a 2 year deal to help provide that short-term relief for us in that 3rd key position forward role while Hipwood is out heading into 2022, but also can provide experience/teachings for our VFL KPFs such as H.Smith, Fullarton and other crew in 2022/2023 as well, before retiring/delisting. I would personally though be preferred to bring someone like Briggs from GWS to the club to fill that 3rd KPF role for us in 2022 while Hipwood is out instead and then can provide quality depth for us in that ruck/KPF when Big O or any of the key forwards unfortunately get injured from 2023+, as he would cost less for us (in terms of draft picks & salary) and is only 22 in October of this year, meaning he would still have another 5-10 years still in his career possibly (injury/form permitted).

 

[The Zork]

I think SPS would be a implant type player if we got him in the same way we use ah chee. For that reason I’d say no.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Maybe we should try to poach a delisted free agent such as a Casboult (Carlton) or Lynch (Adelaide) on a 2 year deal to help provide that short-term relief for us in that 3rd key position forward role while Hipwood is out heading into 2022, but also can provide experience/teachings for our VFL KPFs such as H.Smith, Fullarton and other crew in 2022/2023 as well, before retiring/delisting. I would personally though be preferred to bring someone like Briggs from GWS to the club to fill that 3rd KPF role for us in 2022 while Hipwood is out instead and then can provide quality depth for us in that ruck/KPF when Big O or any of the key forwards unfortunately get injured from 2023+, as he would cost less for us (in terms of draft picks & salary) and is only 22 in October of this year, meaning he would still have another 5-10 years still in his career possibly (injury/form permitted).

I'm not opposed to Lynch, although it should be noted he can't serve as second ruck. I also think Mason Cox might have more to offer than Casboult, but they're both largely a wash in quality.

My concerns with Briggs are that he's inexperienced at the top level, particularly in the forward line, and he's still young himself, just like Fullarton. But if we can get him for a reasonable price, there's no harm in giving him a go.

I don't agree that he'll necessarily come cheaper, as plenty of veterans will play on even for a modest salary, and anyone who has been delisted doesn't need to be traded for.

 

[CarterS]

Where does he fit?

He’s an inside outside mid who doesn’t get played in the midfield because he lacks the tank. He’s not fast, and would struggle to run back in defence.

He would just be a depth player here off a forward or back flank.

Has potential and hasn't exactly been thriving at Carlton. Strikes me as the type of player that could come good in a big way under the right system.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Ok the Club Champion dinner is over the delisting should now come this week? Who do you think is going?

Birchall has tetired.

Barring any low level trades that might occur and I cant really see any

Brock Smith and Tom Joyce pretty much have to be delisted.

Unless we do some deal with a 5th or 6th round pick to clear the list of any of these Archie Smith

44

Archie Smith

Age

30

Ht

203cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.5

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

6.9

4star

CL

2.1

4star

HO

14.4

5star

D

4.7

1star

K

1.7

1star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

2.0

4star

HO

11.3

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

3.4

2star

HB

9.0

5star

CL

3.0

5star

HO

17.8

5star

, Ballenden, CEY, Ely Smith, McFadden

 

[Quigley]

It’s a big no to recruiting “depth” players from me.

Best 22 or stick to the draft.

The only exception would be Callum Coleman-Jones, as he would start the season as our stay at home KPF and chop out ruck. And would be a genuine chance at being the first choice ruck very early on.

I owned CCJ in a dynasty league for years and so actually watched him quite a bit. He will occasionally show something but they are few and far between. His first game in he had 4 goals but after that I thought he looked pretty ordinary and his actual ruck work was disappointing. There was a job for the taking at Richmond this year and neither he nor Chol stood up to take it. He is very much buyer beware and I think teams will overpay for what he will end up producing.

If we were going to go after a young listed ruck I would go after Hayes but I would expect a few teams to have that idea.

Personally I would just give Vardy a contract as a DFA. He can sometimes do something up forward and he is reasonable in the ruck. He is also would not require a longer term contract and so would not get in the way of Smith or Lane if they come on.

 

[Quigley]

Ok the Club Champion dinner is over the delisting should now come this week? Who do you think is going?

Birchall has tetired.

Barring any low level trades that might occur and I cant really see any

Brock Smith and Tom Joyce pretty much have to be delisted.

Unless we do some deal with a 5th or 6th round pick to clear the list of any of these Archie Smith, Ballenden, CEY, Ely Smith, McFadden

Brock seemed to get worse the further the year went. He was unfortunate in having to play on bigs but he has shown no development with his ability to hit targets and so I think is gone.

I would keep Tom Joyce. Leaving out Mathieson I thought he was our best mid in the VFL. He had injury issues again this year and I wouldn't mind seeing him get another year. On production and effort I think he deserves a chance to show what he can do when fully fit.

Archie I think probably goes. He looks further from the AFL than when he started. Looks too heavy and has lost a lot of the athleticism that made him an interesting prospect early. I would rather give the kids run if necessary after they have had a full preseason under their belt.

Ballenden I keep. He was the reserves player of the year and rightly so. He actually looked very good in defense and we seriously lack KP depth already. He would be cheap and if we had a couple of injuries to the KPDers (which is not a stretch on past evidence) I think he could play and do well if they designed it right.

CEY and Ely I would let go but both contracted. Can't see anyone else wanting them so they will stay I expect.

McFadyen disappointed me this year. He had a run at it but never really took over a game. He had the occasional moment but other were more consistent and showed just as much. He is one I would have right up there in the likely to be delisted category.

It has been mentioned that we could be trading a couple of players. I have been thinking about who they might be noting that they have to be guys who another team might actually want and guys I think we would be okay to let go. Two of the only ones that really made sense using that criteria for me are Answerth and Tom Berry. Things went dark for very long periods on Answerth this year and I wonder if there was more to what was going on than we heard. If he is fit though he is a very solid shut down defender who I could see a team having an interest in. Berry is similar as a hard nut HFF / Mid who can come in and do a job and make his presence felt. We could cover for both and I could see both looking at another team for an opportunity.

 

[Nuggo]

I guess the question is what are we trying to fill - Hipwood's role, ruck support role or a backup if the Big O goes down as they are not necessary all the same. If Hipwood was not injured who would be doing the ruck support work? If Hipwood returns for finals (which may or may not happen) then is it back to Joe? Or perhaps a bench spot is warranted for a ruck support/forward support.

 

[martinson]

Brock seemed to get worse the further the year went. He was unfortunate in having to play on bigs but he has shown no development with his ability to hit targets and so I think is gone.

I would keep Tom Joyce. Leaving out Mathieson I thought he was our best mid in the VFL. He had injury issues again this year and I wouldn't mind seeing him get another year. On production and effort I think he deserves a chance to show what he can do when fully fit.

Archie I think probably goes. He looks further from the AFL than when he started. Looks too heavy and has lost a lot of the athleticism that made him an interesting prospect early. I would rather give the kids run if necessary after they have had a full preseason under their belt.

Ballenden I keep. He was the reserves player of the year and rightly so. He actually looked very good in defense and we seriously lack KP depth already. He would be cheap and if we had a couple of injuries to the KPDers (which is not a stretch on past evidence) I think he could play and do well if they designed it right.

CEY and Ely I would let go but both contracted. Can't see anyone else wanting them so they will stay I expect.

McFadyen disappointed me this year. He had a run at it but never really took over a game. He had the occasional moment but other were more consistent and showed just as much. He is one I would have right up there in the likely to be delisted category.

It has been mentioned that we could be trading a couple of players. I have been thinking about who they might be noting that they have to be guys who another team might actually want and guys I think we would be okay to let go. Two of the only ones that really made sense using that criteria for me are Answerth and Tom Berry. Things went dark for very long periods on Answerth this year and I wonder if there was more to what was going on than we heard. If he is fit though he is a very solid shut down defender who I could see a team having an interest in. Berry is similar as a hard nut HFF / Mid who can come in and do a job and make his presence felt. We could cover for both and I could see both looking at another team for an opportunity.

Amongst all that which makes good sense I really agree on Ballenden

Slow maturer who will gain confidence with some Senior games under his belt.

 

[mattsmob]

A fair bit of love for Ballenden which is fair enough but I’m still not quite sure if I see it with him particularly at AFL level. The best thing he does is his marking but he needs a relatively uncontested run and jump at it, he’s not a contested one on one type of mark and I can’t see him getting that role for us given we already have Andrews, Adams and Payne. I’ve mentioned before that I think he’s a good kick for his size but I don’t think his kicking makes him stand out overall. He’s not the athlete Payne or Adams are either so he wouldn’t do much to help with our backline speed. I’m just not quite sure where he fits with us, he could be solid depth but I wouldn’t have a problem with the club moving him on if we need list spots for a first rounder or a best 22 player.

 

[FromOldFitzroy]

Out of left field, here’s 2 names:
McKernan, delisted by the sainters, 31yo, can ruck, and not a total loss up forward.
Zac Smith

32

Zac Smith

Age

36

Ht

206cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

7.1

4star

CL

3.0

4star

HO

21.9

5star

No current season stats available

D

11.0

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.0

4star

CL

2.2

4star

HO

13.6

5star

, retired, but like Mal Michael

Mal Michael

Age

48

Ht

190cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.2

3star

No current season stats available

D

6.4

2star

K

2.2

1star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

, could he be induced to do a year or two? He’s not the worst ruck going round.

 

[LIONS08]

Brock seemed to get worse the further the year went. He was unfortunate in having to play on bigs but he has shown no development with his ability to hit targets and so I think is gone.

I would keep Tom Joyce. Leaving out Mathieson I thought he was our best mid in the VFL. He had injury issues again this year and I wouldn't mind seeing him get another year. On production and effort I think he deserves a chance to show what he can do when fully fit.

Archie I think probably goes. He looks further from the AFL than when he started. Looks too heavy and has lost a lot of the athleticism that made him an interesting prospect early. I would rather give the kids run if necessary after they have had a full preseason under their belt.

Ballenden I keep. He was the reserves player of the year and rightly so. He actually looked very good in defense and we seriously lack KP depth already. He would be cheap and if we had a couple of injuries to the KPDers (which is not a stretch on past evidence) I think he could play and do well if they designed it right.

CEY and Ely I would let go but both contracted. Can't see anyone else wanting them so they will stay I expect.

McFadyen disappointed me this year. He had a run at it but never really took over a game. He had the occasional moment but other were more consistent and showed just as much. He is one I would have right up there in the likely to be delisted category.

It has been mentioned that we could be trading a couple of players. I have been thinking about who they might be noting that they have to be guys who another team might actually want and guys I think we would be okay to let go. Two of the only ones that really made sense using that criteria for me are Answerth and Tom Berry. Things went dark for very long periods on Answerth this year and I wonder if there was more to what was going on than we heard. If he is fit though he is a very solid shut down defender who I could see a team having an interest in. Berry is similar as a hard nut HFF / Mid who can come in and do a job and make his presence felt. We could cover for both and I could see both looking at another team for an opportunity.

Answerth I can see possibly moving on back to Melbourne but I think the club will give Berry one more year. He seems very settled in brissy and will back himself in for a big preseason! Could very handy for us with his pressure! I wonder if he could go the same way as kiddy and shift back?

 

[twhowler]

Brock seemed to get worse the further the year went. He was unfortunate in having to play on bigs but he has shown no development with his ability to hit targets and so I think is gone.

I would keep Tom Joyce. Leaving out Mathieson I thought he was our best mid in the VFL. He had injury issues again this year and I wouldn't mind seeing him get another year. On production and effort I think he deserves a chance to show what he can do when fully fit.

Archie I think probably goes. He looks further from the AFL than when he started. Looks too heavy and has lost a lot of the athleticism that made him an interesting prospect early. I would rather give the kids run if necessary after they have had a full preseason under their belt.

Ballenden I keep. He was the reserves player of the year and rightly so. He actually looked very good in defense and we seriously lack KP depth already. He would be cheap and if we had a couple of injuries to the KPDers (which is not a stretch on past evidence) I think he could play and do well if they designed it right.

CEY and Ely I would let go but both contracted. Can't see anyone else wanting them so they will stay I expect.

McFadyen disappointed me this year. He had a run at it but never really took over a game. He had the occasional moment but other were more consistent and showed just as much. He is one I would have right up there in the likely to be delisted category.

It has been mentioned that we could be trading a couple of players. I have been thinking about who they might be noting that they have to be guys who another team might actually want and guys I think we would be okay to let go. Two of the only ones that really made sense using that criteria for me are Answerth and Tom Berry. Things went dark for very long periods on Answerth this year and I wonder if there was more to what was going on than we heard. If he is fit though he is a very solid shut down defender who I could see a team having an interest in. Berry is similar as a hard nut HFF / Mid who can come in and do a job and make his presence felt. We could cover for both and I could see both looking at another team for an opportunity.

McFadyen got a contract extension - announced in August.

Ballenden on AFL form hasn't shown much at all from my point of view. Seems to not like contact. His kicking could theoretically be a bonus but only if he gets it. Perhaps there is a new position to play him in? I don't think we can consider him ruck back-up. I think we need a genuine ruck back-up. And there is better back-up out there than Archie Smith. We have two developing potential rucks in H Smith and Lane, so we need a ready to go ruck on the cheap. But if we do get one, given list spots, I think Ballenden has to go.

I think Answerth is a must keep. Very fast and committed defender. Good replacement for Starce if and when he goes to midfield.

I don't see the logic in trading T Berry as he has shown some glimpses, but would get us zero back.

 

[davemc_lions]

with list sizes not looking to go back up in the short term
Having a few talls developing for years might not be something clubs want to do
Also the development kids or some with external problems will not be drafted.

This draft for Vic players be more chook lotto as a lot not played many games since under 16's

 

[briztoon]

Answerth I can see possibly moving on back to Melbourne but I think the club will give Berry one more year. He seems very settled in brissy and will back himself in for a big preseason! Could very handy for us with his pressure! I wonder if he could go the same way as kiddy and shift back?

He’s not a good kick, so I’d be hesitant to play him back.

While Madden has an unorthodox kicking style, he’s a more accurate kick than TBerry.

 

[M Malice]

I don’t hate the Casboult idea- as far as crashing packs and back up ruck, is an upgrade on Fullerton.

If he is fully fit and motivated I'd give him a 1 year deal on minimal cash, can crash a pack and bring the ball to ground, can stick a mark and is passable in the ruck.

Our flag window is right now IMO, you have to plan for the now not always years down the track, would definitely offer more than Fullarton/Ballenden in that role in 2022..... unless the coaches are confident that Jack Payne could do a similar job.

 

[Daniels Riches]

Brock seemed to get worse the further the year went. He was unfortunate in having to play on bigs but he has shown no development with his ability to hit targets and so I think is gone.

I would keep Tom Joyce. Leaving out Mathieson I thought he was our best mid in the VFL. He had injury issues again this year and I wouldn't mind seeing him get another year. On production and effort I think he deserves a chance to show what he can do when fully fit.

Archie I think probably goes. He looks further from the AFL than when he started. Looks too heavy and has lost a lot of the athleticism that made him an interesting prospect early. I would rather give the kids run if necessary after they have had a full preseason under their belt.

Ballenden I keep. He was the reserves player of the year and rightly so. He actually looked very good in defense and we seriously lack KP depth already. He would be cheap and if we had a couple of injuries to the KPDers (which is not a stretch on past evidence) I think he could play and do well if they designed it right.

CEY and Ely I would let go but both contracted. Can't see anyone else wanting them so they will stay I expect.

McFadyen disappointed me this year. He had a run at it but never really took over a game. He had the occasional moment but other were more consistent and showed just as much. He is one I would have right up there in the likely to be delisted category.

It has been mentioned that we could be trading a couple of players. I have been thinking about who they might be noting that they have to be guys who another team might actually want and guys I think we would be okay to let go. Two of the only ones that really made sense using that criteria for me are Answerth and Tom Berry. Things went dark for very long periods on Answerth this year and I wonder if there was more to what was going on than we heard. If he is fit though he is a very solid shut down defender who I could see a team having an interest in. Berry is similar as a hard nut HFF / Mid who can come in and do a job and make his presence felt. We could cover for both and I could see both looking at another team for an opportunity.

NO WAY we trade Berry Jr!

On moto g(30) using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Quigley]

A fair bit of love for Ballenden which is fair enough but I’m still not quite sure if I see it with him particularly at AFL level. The best thing he does is his marking but he needs a relatively uncontested run and jump at it, he’s not a contested one on one type of mark and I can’t see him getting that role for us given we already have Andrews, Adams and Payne. I’ve mentioned before that I think he’s a good kick for his size but I don’t think his kicking makes him stand out overall. He’s not the athlete Payne or Adams are either so he wouldn’t do much to help with our backline speed. I’m just not quite sure where he fits with us, he could be solid depth but I wouldn’t have a problem with the club moving him on if we need list spots for a first rounder or a best 22 player.

He is a very good intercept marker and field kick. I agree there is not a best 22 spot there for him at the moment but if Andrews went down I think he would be a better replacement than 90% of teams would have. Additionally it is good to have a few more experienced guys in the reserves especially at the back and I think we lack depth there at the moment. Also if we were looking to draft van Rooyan or Bazzo then having Ballenden in the team with them is likely to help their development I think.

I think he stood out as one of the best KPDers in the VFL this year. On that basis I am just not seeing a lot of sense in getting rid of him at this stage. There are other guys who offer less value for the team and are more easily replaced.

 

[Quigley]

He’s not a good kick, so I’d be hesitant to play him back.

While Madden has an unorthodox kicking style, he’s a more accurate kick than TBerry.

There is a lot of love for Answerth on here and I am not saying he is not a decent prospect but they forget his weaknesses. His kicking and decision making is pretty much number 1 and the reason why Starcevich got a chance in the first place.

Answerth is a quick (Starcevich quick not Madden quick), small defender with good defensive skills but he is prone to a mistake or two coming out of defense and he slows the play down and goes back rather than forward a lot. Personally I would rather have Coleman, Madden and Prior ahead of him in the defensive pecking order because those players have a more balanced game. Madden is also at least as good as he is defensively.

 

[briztoon]

There is a lot of love for Answerth on here and I am not saying he is not a decent prospect but they forget his weaknesses. His kicking and decision making is pretty much number 1 and the reason why Starcevich got a chance in the first place.

Answerth is a quick (Starcevich quick not Madden quick), small defender with good defensive skills but he is prone to a mistake or two coming out of defense and he slows the play down and goes back rather than forward a lot. Personally I would rather have Coleman, Madden and Prior ahead of him in the defensive pecking order because those players have a more balanced game. Madden is also at least as good as he is defensively.

Preaching to the choir here.

We pretty much share a lot of the same thoughts on our players, but your word carries much more weight with the longer tenured members here (which is understandable).

 

[jackess]

There is a lot of love for Answerth on here and I am not saying he is not a decent prospect but they forget his weaknesses. His kicking and decision making is pretty much number 1 and the reason why Starcevich got a chance in the first place.

Answerth is a quick (Starcevich quick not Madden quick), small defender with good defensive skills but he is prone to a mistake or two coming out of defense and he slows the play down and goes back rather than forward a lot. Personally I would rather have Coleman, Madden and Prior ahead of him in the defensive pecking order because those players have a more balanced game. Madden is also at least as good as he is defensively.

So if Starcevich was injured and the rest of the list was available who would you play on an AMT, Ryan or Papley or some other gun small forward?

 

[Quigley]

So if Starcevich was injured and the rest of the list was available who would you play on an AMT, Ryan or Papley or some other gun small forward?

Happy to play Madden on them. Prior I also think would do a pretty fair job.

With that said in those circumstances I don't have a problem with Answerth playing either. Starcevich has slowly been developing his offensive game with him primarily being a defensive player when he came in. If our defensive stopper is out I really don't have an issue with bringing in another whose focus is on that side of the game.

 

[Quigley]

Probably worth remembering that Starcevich still only averaged 12 disposals a game for us this year. He is not a conduit out of defense and whilst he might improve that side of his game he still remains primarily a defense first and second player. I want to improve the defensive side of our defensive unit but I think we need to consider the offensive side as well.