Analysis 2021 trade thread

[BRAB]

Such a poor look, especially when using the pick allocated by the AFL to facilitate the trade.

You might feel a bit sorry for them as well, given Brodie and MacPherson signed big contracts when the suns were at rock bottom.

The you remember that they did stupid shit like bring in Rory Atkins on a FIVE YEAR 400k deal to play VFL.

The AFL have essentially given them a priority pick to use in a salary dump because of their poor list management.

I really like the suns but some of the shit they do at the trade table makes it hard to feel sorry for them.

 

[POBT]

I used to prefer having one genuine ruck and a pinch hitter but after I saw Big O tire late in games in the back end of the year, namely against eagles, Melbourne and dogs, I think we must play two genuine rucks moving forward more for countering threats like Gawn and Jackson combo come finals. A lot of teams don’t play two rucks so it can be a big point of difference at the end of the year. Fort is also no mug in the forward line. Just as cox is also underrated as a ruck. Both upgrades on Fullerton and that’s what we are after. If hipwood comes back then that’s great. We have a selection headache

Are you suggesting we play 3 tall forwards as well as 2 rucks? If so, we'd be in the minority in the comp doing that. Port is probably the main example of a club running a 3 KPF+2 ruck structure when they play Lycett, Ladhams, Dixon, Marshall and Georgiades. West Coast have done it too, particularly when NicNat has been on reduced playing time. It does come at a cost though, as you have one less midfielder in the 22.

If we decide to play 2 rucks and 2 KPFs, it probably only works while Hippy is out.

The other thing that perhaps we should be considering is demanding a bit more out of Daniher when he goes into the ruck. He should be more competitive than he was at times. As much as it probably isn't his preference, a 200cm player should be able to at least contest, particularly with the around the ground ruck contests where he doesn't have someone jumping into him.

 

[davemc_lions]

Are you suggesting we play 3 tall forwards as well as 2 rucks? If so, we'd be in the minority in the comp doing that. Port is probably the main example of a club running a 3 KPF+2 ruck structure when they play Lycett, Ladhams, Dixon, Marshall and Georgiades. West Coast have done it too, particularly when NicNat has been on reduced playing time. It does come at a cost though, as you have one less midfielder in the 22.

If we decide to play 2 rucks and 2 KPFs, it probably only works while Hippy is out.

The other thing that perhaps we should be considering is demanding a bit more out of Daniher when he goes into the ruck. He should be more competitive than he was at times. As much as it probably isn't his preference, a 200cm player should be able to at least contest, particularly with the around the ground ruck contests where he doesn't have someone jumping into him.

I try 2 rucks 2 forwards while Hipwood is out.
Then work out what we do when he is back
Bother Hipwood and Joe good at ground level so do not just play tall

 

[mattsmob]

I try 2 rucks 2 forwards while Hipwood is out.
Then work out what we do when he is back
Bother Hipwood and Joe good at ground level so do not just play tall

Just on Hipwood and Daniher, both are good at ground level for key position forwards, if we're comparing them to having an extra small forward or mid then they're not very good a ground level.

 

[Section 5]

You might feel a bit sorry for them as well, given Brodie and MacPherson signed big contracts when the suns were at rock bottom.

The you remember that they did stupid sh*t like bring in Rory Atkins on a FIVE YEAR 400k deal to play VFL.

The AFL have essentially given them a priority pick to use in a salary dump because of their poor list management.

I really like the suns but some of the sh*t they do at the trade table makes it hard to feel sorry for them.

Salary cap issues can be a hard thing to turn around
Lions were in a similar place for many years

Regarding trade issues.
It is like the Suns get to turn low draft picks into good players with other clubs then taking over to get the benefit

I don't know all the complexity surrounding the cap. Does anyone really?
For me the issue for bottom placed clubs is they can't bank much cap money
So they are forced to pay well overs to keep fringe/average players as well as attract good players to the club
One thing they should be able to control is contract length. Do not have 4 year or longer deals for average players.
Reserve that type of deal for stars of the game

Having said all that how did they actually get into a salary cap problem for 2022
Below some of the players that left the Suns that would have been on good money. Who did they get in is the issue
Wright, Ah Chee, Lyons, Saad, O'Mera, Hall, May, Jack Martin, Tom Lynch & Prestia
I may have missed some

 

[blueiris]

 

[POBT]

I try 2 rucks 2 forwards while Hipwood is out.
Then work out what we do when he is back
Bother Hipwood and Joe good at ground level so do not just play tall

I think whatever we do at first has to be able to be sustained once Hipwood is back. You preferably don't want to be making changes to your ball movement in July to account for a personnel change you know is coming. If we decide to play 2 rucks as an interim measure, we either need to put Oscar forward more or make the second ruck spend a lot of time up front. I haven't seen enough of Fort at AFL level to know whether he can do that (I'm aware that he's done it at VFL level). I think though that Cox/Casboult are more proven forward options.

We obviously have imperfect options available to us. I think that to decide, we need to know what the club's primary need is. If it is a backup ruck as Oscar insurance, then it's probably Fort. If it is a temporary Hipwood replacement, maybe the more proven forwards come into play.

I probably lean towards signing someone to play backup ruck. I would then give Fullarton first bite of the cherry at senior level and avoid a major structural change if possible. I recognise that is an ideal situation though and not necessarily reality.

 

[RoyBoy17]

Are you suggesting we play 3 tall forwards as well as 2 rucks? If so, we'd be in the minority in the comp doing that. Port is probably the main example of a club running a 3 KPF+2 ruck structure when they play Lycett, Ladhams, Dixon, Marshall and Georgiades. West Coast have done it too, particularly when NicNat has been on reduced playing time. It does come at a cost though, as you have one less midfielder in the 22.

If we decide to play 2 rucks and 2 KPFs, it probably only works while Hippy is out.

The other thing that perhaps we should be considering is demanding a bit more out of Daniher when he goes into the ruck. He should be more competitive than he was at times. As much as it probably isn't his preference, a 200cm player should be able to at least contest, particularly with the around the ground ruck contests where he doesn't have someone jumping into him.

No definitely just 2 key forwards and 2 rucks. Otherwise too tall. Much like we did with Martin and Big O combo which worked well. Daniher isn’t changing now if he hasn’t already. Hardest thing to coach into someone is competitiveness. When Hipwood comes back then he may have to ruck a bit though. But the benefit of playing two rucks most of the year is that Big O will be fresher come finals.

 

[RoyBoy17]

Agreed - would be good to get Fort for backup & support for Oscar...the Big O had a fantastic season and gave his heart and soul to the team but he did tire, particularly against the elite rucks in the competition. We also need that insurance on the list in case something happened to take Oscar out of play for an extended period. Oscar can also be a dangerous player when switched forward and having Fort available would assist with that option.
I have never seen Fort play so don't really know anything at all about him other than what I have read on Big Footy but he certainly appeals more than the other options being bandied about.

One of the few games he’s played was actually against us last year. He got the better of our rucks that night. He’s no gun by any means but he’s handy forward and competent with his tap work. Not sure why Geelong didn’t give him a crack. They love Rhys Stanley

 

[acuguy]

How much could MacPherson be on to warrant a salary dump??

 

[Section 5]

One of the few games he’s played was actually against us last year. He got the better of our rucks that night. He’s no gun by any means but he’s handy forward and competent with his tap work. Not sure why Geelong didn’t give him a crack. They love Rhys Stanley

That was in 2020. How time flies
Fort did fairly well that night considering he was Geelong's only ruck and was up against Martin & Oscar
Fort did not play an AFL game last year

 

[BuntonRules]

Still reckon, for value and needs, Fort is our best option

 

[lioninthesand]

I used to prefer having one genuine ruck and a pinch hitter but after I saw Big O tire late in games in the back end of the year, namely against eagles, Melbourne and dogs, I think we must play two genuine rucks moving forward more for countering threats like Gawn and Jackson combo come finals. A lot of teams don’t play two rucks so it can be a big point of difference at the end of the year. Fort is also no mug in the forward line. Just as cox is also underrated as a ruck. Both upgrades on Fullerton and that’s what we are after. If hipwood comes back then that’s great. We have a selection headache

I agree with this. I think we need two genuine rucks. Who out of McStay, Daniher, Hipwood (once fit) plays ressies though?

Or do we play 3 talls and a resting ruck forward? if we do this... how do we intend to defend rebound 50's?

Playing 5 genuine talls ruck/forward is uncharted territory.

 

[mattsmob]

I agree with this. I think we need two genuine rucks. Who out of McStay, Daniher, Hipwood (once fit) plays ressies though?

I think the answer to that is none of them, if one was going to we might as well trade them for value and salary cap. I also don't see the problem with playing just Oscar, Hipwood, Daniher and McStay, it's one the deadliest forward lines in the league and that's not even including Cameron, Linc, Bailey and Rayner.

 

[RoyBoy17]

I agree with this. I think we need two genuine rucks. Who out of McStay, Daniher, Hipwood (once fit) plays ressies though?

Or do we play 3 talls and a resting ruck forward? if we do this... how do we intend to defend rebound 50's?

Playing 5 genuine talls ruck/forward is uncharted territory.

Hipwood comes in for one of the rucks when the time comes. It’s nice to have the option anyway. Good headache to have if the two rucks work well.

 

[dlanod]

Still reckon, for value and needs, Fort is our best option

If we can get Fort for an unused pick, that's a win.

If Cox is willing to come on close to the minimum, that's a win.

i.e. I don't mind us getting Cox if we were going to have to invest an actual asset into Fort's availability.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Cox would probably be useful for the next two seasons, after which we can get another mature ruck if the youngsters still aren't considered ready. And that could be Fort, who would still be young enough at that point to be useful.

 

[md20]

Cox is a terrible ruck and a terrible forward. Would be a liability and probably ruin a few good passages of play. Would prefer Casboult and thats saying alot.

 

[blueiris]

Cox would probably be useful for the next two seasons, after which we can get another mature ruck if the youngsters still aren't considered ready. And that could be Fort, who would still be young enough at that point to be useful.

Fort is 29 next Year

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Fort is 29 next Year

And? 30 is an age where many players are still useful, particularly rucks.

 

[jackess]

Fort is 29 next Year

How old is he the year after that? Or in 2032?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Get out the calculators: How Collingwood land son of a gun Nick Daicos

Collingwood face a juggling act to land father-son prospect Nick Daicos, as well as trade in Nathan Kreuger and Patrick Lipinski, but they are confident they will have enough points to match a bid.

www.theage.com.au

Collingwood plan to trade in other clubs’ selections that currently sit in the third and fourth round of the 2021 national draft if points are required, with the Magpies able to either hand over future second- or third-round picks, or trade one of their third-round picks for a package of later picks other clubs hold later in the national draft that carry more points when combined.

The club should be all over this. Moving our thirds into next year, yes please.

 

[Warwick]

Cox is a terrible ruck and a terrible forward. Would be a liability and probably ruin a few good passages of play. Would prefer Casboult and thats saying alot.

Agree. Cox is garbage.

What a waste of a valuable list spot that would be.

 

[Hollow Knight]

If we get Cox and I hear one ****ing “U S A!” chant at the Gabba…

 

[OldLion]

Any injured gems out there that we can rehabilitate ? We seem to have a track record that could attract real quality. Daniel Talia

12

Daniel Talia

Age

34

Ht

197cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

169.9

3star

D

10.4

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.5

2star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.1

2star

MG

187.6

3star

D

11.4

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

3.4

5star

etc etc