List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and Trading Thread - Part 2

[Scorpus]

Updated list position



And 2024 as it stands

Spoiler

 

[mick500]

Well, that’s tripping. The sporadic chance of Murphy delivery outweighs that does it?

My opinion of macadam isn't influenced by my opinion of Murphy. Macadam is soft imo and adds nothing other players don't.

 

[Red mist]

My opinion of macadam isn't influenced by my opinion of Murphy. Macadam is soft imo and adds nothing other players don't.

Well, his ability to tackle inside 50 better than negating small does.

 

[Vader]

No guarantee that we were/are able to pay anyone's salaries as a selling point by trading to other clubs, particularly if we are heavily front-ending Rankines contract. I didn't hear any reports that we were into Jack Bowes in terms of the salary dump scenario presented.

We were prepared to pay the salaries of Betts & Jenkins, to get them out the door. No reason to think they wouldn't be willing to do the same for Crouch.

What I'm talking about is the opposite of a salary dump - we would effectively be paying him to play for the opposition's state league team, rather than our own.

I think if list positions go back to normal going into the 2024 season, and he at least shows some form/consistency, then he may have suitors.

Big IF, given that the AFL promised they'd go back to normal for the 2022 season - they lied, and haven't shown any desire whatsoever to return things to normal. Even if that were the case, there is literally no evidence whatsoever to suggest that another club would be willing to sign him - and plenty of evidence suggesting that they wouldn't (i.e. his failure to find a suitor in either 2021 or 2022). But hey - third time lucky? I guess that's all you've got to hang your hat on.

 

[Vader]

The Hawks traded out three of their highest paid players and are in a rebuild same as us.

They're a year or two behind us. We traded ours out a couple of years ago - think Betts, Jenkins, Keath, Greenwood, ...

 

[Redline]

you would think having a "grown up" discussion with Seeds is all that is needed. As a rookie he stays on our list and still gets paid - any reasonable person would see this as a fair solution to a genuine problem

Agreed, Be a hit to another players confidence while I don't thinks Seeds would even care.

 

[Red mist]

They're a year or two behind us. We traded ours out a couple of years ago - think Betts, Jenkins, Keath, Greenwood, ...

The list cuts now are clinical scalpel.
The next one is gonna be a jagged wound. I see it being Hamill before Seed.

 

[Golumless]

I think the fanbase opinion of Murphy and McHenry and Nicks opinion on them are at opposite ends.

McHenry: yes.
Murphy: no.

It's not too surprising fans don't rate defensive first players and coaches do, hence why there is that difference in McHenry who'd go into 2023 as an automatic starter, and is a solid role player. Although Ned needs to find something else quick to really lock down that spot, seeing Berry is getting closer to overtaking Keays as a primary mid and Keays easily wins that spot from Ned as a fallback. Murphy on the other hand, well, he lost that job - and the relative safety of it - in the last two years and is now up against Rankine for a spot in our lineup. I.e. he's going to need a miracle to keep a best 22 spot this season.

 

[Red mist]

McHenry - yes.
Murphy - no.

It's not too surprising fans don't rate defensive first players and coaches do, hence why there is that difference in McHenry who'd go into 2023 as an automatic starter, and really is a solid role player (though he needs to find something else quick, seeing Berry is getting closer to overtaking Keays as a primary mid). Murphy on the other hand, well, he lost that job (and the relative safety of it) in the last two years and is now up against Rankine for a spot in our lineup. I.e. he's all but done.

Murphy is pretty good on the footy wire v Rankine.
in fact you put all our small up v Rankine this year for that game v gcs.
So now it’s a tie.
for god sakes golumless it be like Sauron ate a cake.
Rankine is supposed to get rid of two players. Not Rachele.

 

[Danger in Texas]

McHenry: yes.
Murphy: no.

It's not too surprising fans don't rate defensive first players and coaches do, hence why there is that difference in McHenry who'd go into 2023 as an automatic starter, and is a solid role player. Although Ned needs to find something else quick to really lock down that spot, seeing Berry is getting closer to overtaking Keays as a primary mid and Keays easily wins that spot from Ned as a fallback. Murphy on the other hand, well, he lost that job - and the relative safety of it - in the last two years and is now up against Rankine for a spot in our lineup. I.e. he's going to need a miracle to keep a best 22 spot this season.

I would be surprised if we see any more of Murphy in the forward line from now onwards. Rankine in basically pushes him out of his fwd line spot (which he wasn’t even a lock for this year, anyway)

Will be interesting to see how Ned goes this year. Will firmly be our 7th forward, which should take a bit of the spotlight off of him, but if he’s going to push to keep his spot in the side he’s going to have to up his production a bit and lessen the clangers. He upped his goal tally on 2021, which is a positive for his developing impact

 

[Golumless]

How does wasting games on guys that aren't a part of our future help either group? You just said Nicks has a mandate to rebuild.

Because development is tied to managing the confidence of a teams players and confidence is ultimately tied to winning games of football.

Even in a rebuild, it doesn't change how a team is selected. Every club has a group of automatic starters, a bunch of role players to try to plug holes and a couple of jobs that are getting heavily fought over. The only difference between a rebuild and a team in contention is a rebuilding list is geared towards losing games of football.

Consensus is that AFC supporters are an impatient bunch.

rowe will flourish as he ages. Good skills and can adjust to the pace of the game. We will regret letting him go.

rowe’s current season vs StengLe in 2020:

View attachment 1537309

We most likely won't, but that's owing to us picking up Rankine this off-season. Any rebuild is eventually going to have a list of players who couldn't cut it in a teams side, but go on to find best 22 spots elsewhere as they eventually got upgraded by better options.

Murphy is pretty good on the footy wire v Rankine.
in fact you put all our small up v Rankine this year for that game v gcs.
So now it’s a tie.
for god sakes golumless it be like Sauron ate a cake.
Rankine is supposed to get rid of two players. Not Rachele.

Career, yes, seeing Rankine has played 30 less games. However, in 2022 there is a pretty significant gap, and one that's going to grow further in 2023 as Rankine gets into that 50-70 game mark and finally gets midfield minutes.

After all, Rankine had a year where he got per game (from AFL stat pro): 13.4 disposals/1.6 goals/1 goal assist/6.2 score involvements/1.2 score launches/2 inside 50s/4.4 effective kicks/5.2 ground ball gets/2.2 tackles/14.9 pressure acts.

Compared to Murphy at 12.5 disposals/0.5 goals/0.7 goal assists/4.5 score involvements/0.6 score launches/3.1 inside 50s/4.1 effective kicks/3.7 ground ball gets/2.9 tackles/13.9 pressure acts.

It's a pretty sizable upgrade at this point, and really the only thing that might save Murphy is Rankine getting midfield minutes, as he could easily force his way into being a 1st choice midfielder.

 

[ad victoriam]

Murphy is a decent footballer. Surprised at the hate for him.

On BF if a player does not constantly average 20 disposals or kick 50 goals they are crap
It does not matter if their pressure acts are good or if they are constantly playing the way the coach wants them

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The list cuts now are clinical scalpel.
The next one is gonna be a jagged wound. I see it being Hamill before Seed.

Why?

 

[Red mist]

Why?

Because they played more 22

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

On BF if a player does not constantly average 20 disposals or kick 50 goals they are crap
It does not matter if their pressure acts are good or if they are constantly playing the way the coach wants them

There is a reason that we're down near the bottom of the ladder and haven't played finals for 5 seasons

Some or more than some of our players aren't very good

 

[ad victoriam]

There is a reason that we're down near the bottom of the ladder and haven't played finals for 5 seasons

Some or more than some of our players aren't very good

There is also another reason you can add. Most of our players are inexperienced and Young.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Because they played more 22

Huh?

I have nfi how that is an explanation.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

There is a reason that we're down near the bottom of the ladder and haven't played finals for 5 seasons

Some or more than some of our players aren't very good

Our overall skill level is well below what is required to be successful.

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

Huh?

I have nfi how that is an explanation.

RM has his own language.

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

Ban hammer in 3... 2... 1...

 

[dylan123]

I was one that was backing Stengle and didn't want him to be delisted as he had elite traits in my mind.

I don't think Rowe has any elite traits, apart from celebrating a goal.

Nothing I saw from Stengle at his time with the Crows that had me think elite. Obviously been proven wrong since but in some sense it feels similar to Rowe - didn't have elite speed, game wasn't based around defensive pressure and felt he failed to capitalise in front of goals for us.

 

[BunjiMac]

Nothing I saw from Stengle at his time with the Crows that had me think elite. Obviously been proven wrong since but in some sense it feels similar to Rowe - didn't have elite speed, game wasn't based around defensive pressure and felt he failed to capitalise in front of goals for us.

I think there was a massive difference between the two. When Stengle was with us he wasn't the complete package absolutely, but I think he's movement in close and in particular his one on one ability were elite. He's also very strong for some one his size. This meant that he was able to create alot of his goals from nothing and in the disfunction of those years.

All of Rowe's goals are made for him by his teammates as he is an extremely poor one on one player.

Clearly with a better team around him and not having to deal with the woeful quality of our football, Stengle didn't need to always create something from nothing and become a more dangerous and complete player.

 

[martyparty]

So whats the general consensus on Rowe?
Not good enough?
Might be good enough, but played Out of position?
Was good enough

Was excellent… at running around in circles. He must have played at least ten games as a forward without kicking a goal.

 

[martyparty]

One swallow does not a summer make

How much do you swallow?

 

[martyparty]

I would be surprised if we see any more of Murphy in the forward line from now onwards. Rankine in basically pushes him out of his fwd line spot (which he wasn’t even a lock for this year, anyway)

Will be interesting to see how Ned goes this year. Will firmly be our 7th forward, which should take a bit of the spotlight off of him, but if he’s going to push to keep his spot in the side he’s going to have to up his production a bit and lessen the clangers. He upped his goal tally on 2021, which is a positive for his developing impact

Murph and Ned might be alternating as Medi-subs.

 

[crow2crow]

Nothing I saw from Stengle at his time with the Crows that had me think elite. Obviously been proven wrong since but in some sense it feels similar to Rowe - didn't have elite speed, game wasn't based around defensive pressure and felt he failed to capitalise in front of goals for us.

stengle did have elite speed