List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and Trading Thread - Part 2

[Scorpus]

Updated list position



And 2024 as it stands

Spoiler

 

[Mutineer]

These are our OOC players next year

Here’s how I would look at it, real early so made a few judgement calls that may look silly.

Retire:
Seedsman, Sloane, Walker (performance dependent)

Re-sign (high priority):
Fogarty, Schoenberg, Worrell, Butts

Re-sign:
Murray, McAdam, Doedee, Taylor

Wait and see:
Jones, McAsey, Hately, Nankervis

De-list:
McPherson, Strachan, Murphy, Crouch

Highly doubt either Murphy or Strachan will be delisted.

Strachan only chance if we draft or recruit another ruck in the interim because god forbid we pursue making Thilthorpe our next ruck.

 

[crow2crow]

The Cathal McShane experiment didn't do too well...

Cathal McShane: 'Everybody asked me why wouldn’t you go to Australia? Today answers that'

As for the Tyrone goal, McShane revealed it was a rehearsed scenario

www.irishexaminer.com

I'd completely forgotten about that... seems to work for others

 

[dylan123]

Complaining about releasing Rowe is the sort of thing that is keeping us in mediocrity

Agreed. I would have said the same about Stengle at the time though to be fair. I'll be equally surprised if he makes it at the Dogs (if he goes there) but best of luck to him.

 

[dogs105]

Highly doubt either Murphy or Strachan will be delisted.

Strachan only chance if we draft or recruit another ruck in the interim because god forbid we pursue making Thilthorpe our next ruck.

Murphy is a decent footballer. Surprised at the hate for him.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Murphy is a decent footballer. Surprised at the hate for him.

The perfect depth player in the 21-25th position on our list ......Premiership Teams are just that, if you have a strong bottom 4 -6 of your best 22

AND ....you can't pay every player $500K + ....so, low cost, experienced players are a must

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Crouch as a FA last year, and attracted zero interest. His stocks fell further in 2022, and he didn't get any nibbles at the trade table. There is no reason whatsoever to think that he'd attract any interest as a DFA or UFA next year. He will almost certainly be delisted, and that will be the end of his AFL career.

I’m not really sure how you keep going with this line that his stocks ‘have fallen further in 2022’. His prospects would certainly have improved since proving that he’s been able to come back from injury. His stocks were lowest after struggling through what seemed like quite a debilitating injury, and then rightly so no one came knocking once he qualified for free agency. I think the prospect of teams still having to cough up a draft pick for him this year has deterred them, and there being better ageing inside mids out there.
Prioritising young players instead of Crouch has done his trade prospects harm, but let’s look at the bigger picture, we’ve looked better without him. The likes of O’Meara & Mitchell were given a tonne of game time this year at the expense of others, and managed to find some trade value, but the opportunity cost is Hawks not getting game time into their eventual replacements.


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[Vader]

Finally, why don’t we have a young Paddy as our allowed 3rd Cat B rookie? For no draft capital, Irish Gaelic footballers have offered very good returns for many other clubs … likely adding raw pace and an endearing accent at local nightclubs.

It may not cost draft capital, but it costs a hell of a lot of $$$.

The AFC dipped its toe in the waters of Irish recruits in 2008, bringing 2 players over from Ireland - Brian Donnelly and Carl Dias. Dias pulled the plug before he even finished the trials the club was putting him through. Donnelly was given a 12 month rookie contract, and gave up at the end of that first year.

As a result of this experiment, the club decided that it simply wasn't worth the cost. The cost of sending recruiters over to Ireland, and relocating the players to Australia, was just too high, given the low probability of getting a good return. For every Tadhg Kennelly and Zach Tuohy there are 10 Irish recruits who didn't make it.

 

[Vader]

I’m not really sure how you keep going with this line that his stocks ‘have fallen further in 2022’. His prospects would certainly have improved since proving that he’s been able to come back from injury. His stocks were lowest after struggling through what seemed like quite a debilitating injury, and then rightly so no one came knocking once he qualified for free agency. I think the prospect of teams still having to cough up a draft pick for him this year has deterred them, and there being better ageing inside mids out there.
Prioritising young players instead of Crouch has done his trade prospects harm, but let’s look at the bigger picture, we’ve looked better without him. The likes of O’Meara & Mitchell were given a tonne of game time this year at the expense of others, and managed to find some trade value, but the opportunity cost is Hawks not getting game time into their eventual replacements.

In 2021 there was doubt over whether or not he'd be able to return to playing AFL at a high standard. In 2022 he removed all doubt, and proved that he wasn't - and spent half the year in the SANFL as a result, with little prospect of returning to the seniors in 2023. That's why I say that his stocks have fallen further.

Nobody was interested in him this year, even if Adelaide was willing to pay part of his (already discounted) salary. Clubs just aren't willing to use a list position on players with his skill set any more.

 

[rabidcrow]

Doedee when fit is and always will be a better layer than Josh

Josh still struggles with upper body strength whereas Doedee can play taller better than Josh

Josh’s disposal and decision making with the ball also needs to improve greatly, he still bombs it up the line to much for my liking

Doedeewe courage is also being under valued on here IMO, Deidre makes others stand tall around him and his leadership if first class

I Josh should be best 22 next year but people need to stop over looking his flaws in his game and ignoring Doedee qualities


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The point I was trying to make is Doedee is not a 3rd tall defender - at all. And we have played him there and even as a second defender at times and it embarrasses him

Doedee is courageous, and definitely a good player - but is far too small to be the 3rd tall. Josh fits that to a tee. Agile and big enough to hold his own. Agree he needs to develop some polish and more strength - he has played like 5 games and is 4-5 years younger than Doedee.

Watch the Carlton game where Josh beat both McKay and Dekonig one on one in the air - Tom cannot do that


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[1970crow]

We would be silly not to re-rookie Turner.

No doubt he won’t be available to us then when we pounce with our pick in the PSD.

 

[BunjiMac]

Agreed. I would have said the same about Stengle at the time though to be fair. I'll be equally surprised if he makes it at the Dogs (if he goes there) but best of luck to him.

I was one that was backing Stengle and didn't want him to be delisted as he had elite traits in my mind.

I don't think Rowe has any elite traits, apart from celebrating a goal.

 

[DaKids]

Isn’t Max known for being a good shut down defender? We don’t have one of those. He’s also very skinny so I doubt he will play for a couple of years, it will give time to see how our defence is shaping up.

He was a very good shut down defender at school and junior level. But he was big enough to play that role on key forwards.

It was always going to be the case that unless he grew he wasn’t going to translate to seniors playing that role.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

In 2021 there was doubt over whether or not he'd be able to return to playing AFL at a high standard. In 2022 he removed all doubt, and proved that he wasn't - and spent half the year in the SANFL as a result, with little prospect of returning to the seniors in 2023. That's why I say that his stocks have fallen further.

Nobody was interested in him this year, even if Adelaide was willing to pay part of his (already discounted) salary. Clubs just aren't willing to use a list position on players with his skill set any more.

No guarantee that we were/are able to pay anyone's salaries as a selling point by trading to other clubs, particularly if we are heavily front-ending Rankines contract. I didn't hear any reports that we were into Jack Bowes in terms of the salary dump scenario presented.

I think if list positions go back to normal going into the 2024 season, and he at least shows some form/consistency, then he may have suitors.

 

[1970crow]

No guarantee that we were/are able to pay anyone's salaries as a selling point by trading to other clubs, particularly if we are heavily front-ending Rankines contract. I didn't hear any reports that we were into Jack Bowes in terms of the salary dump scenario presented.

I think if list positions go back to normal going into the 2024 season, and he at least shows some form/consistency, then he may have suitors.

We were listed as a club that went hard at Bowes to get him to select us.

 

[Mutineer]

No guarantee that we were/are able to pay anyone's salaries as a selling point by trading to other clubs, particularly if we are heavily front-ending Rankines contract. I didn't hear any reports that we were into Jack Bowes in terms of the salary dump scenario presented.

I think if list positions go back to normal going into the 2024 season, and he at least shows some form/consistency, then he may have suitors.

I'm absolutely positive it was reported we were actually one of the clubs that went really hard at Jack Bowes, no doubt heavily influenced by pick 7 being part of that scenario. Possibly with a view to securing Mattaes Phillipou with that pick.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

I'm absolutely positive it was reported we were actually one of the clubs that went really hard at Jack Bowes, no doubt heavily influenced by pick 7 being part of that scenario. Possibly with a view to securing Mattaes Phillipou with that pick.

I was following it pretty closely and i don't remember a single reporter linking us with solid interest in Bowes at all.

 

[Danger in Texas]

I was following it pretty closely and i don't remember a single reporter linking us with solid interest in Bowes at all.

In an article from about a week back:

The Cats are on the cusp of securing their man but it was Hawthorn, led by coach Sam Mitchell, who gave the most impressive pitch and offered more money in the last two years of a four-year deal.

Adelaide was the most desperate to get him while Brisbane was understood to be incentivised by the draft pick and points on offer.

 

[Mutineer]

I was following it pretty closely and i don't remember a single reporter linking us with solid interest in Bowes at all.

Then you obviously weren't following it as close as you thought.

In an article from about a week back:

 

[WeedsMullet84]

In an article from about a week back:

Interesting if that is from a week back (Just before the deal was done), but i'm almost certain i heard zero reports leading up to the trade that we were interested, but fair enough.

The only thing i constantly heard is that his preference was for Victoria for some bizarre reason (being from Cairns??)

I guess one telling thing is that not one of McAsey, Sholl or any other contracted players of ours were traded, when surely the prospect of us paying their wage would be have been desirable to other teams.

The article also states the Hawks were offering more than we were, which sounds somewhat unbelievable considering our salary cap should have made us front-runners in that department.

 

[Mutineer]

Interesting if that is from a week back (Just before the deal was done), but i'm almost certain i heard zero reports leading up to the trade that we were interested, but fair enough.

The only thing i constantly heard is that his preference was for Victoria for some bizarre reason (being from Cairns??)

I guess one telling thing is that not one of McAsey, Sholl or any other contracted players of ours were traded, when surely the prospect of us paying their wage would be have been desirable to other teams.

The article also states the Hawks were offering more than we were, which sounds somewhat unbelievable considering our salary cap should have made us front-runners in that department.

It was Victoria because he had a number of Victorian family relations down there...that was also reported.

 

[Red mist]

I was one that was backing Stengle and didn't want him to be delisted as he had elite traits in my mind.

I don't think Rowe has any elite traits, apart from celebrating a goal.

Look, this is hard to refuse, on any margin.
So if the club also acknowledged that, it was about the internal culture build.

 

[crow2crow]

Interesting if that is from a week back (Just before the deal was done), but i'm almost certain i heard zero reports leading up to the trade that we were interested, but fair enough.

The only thing i constantly heard is that his preference was for Victoria for some bizarre reason (being from Cairns??)

I guess one telling thing is that not one of McAsey, Sholl or any other contracted players of ours were traded, when surely the prospect of us paying their wage would be have been desirable to other teams.

The article also states the Hawks were offering more than we were, which sounds somewhat unbelievable considering our salary cap should have made us front-runners in that department.

whilst we were willing to pay it wasnt as a salary dump scenario and we were wanting significant trade capital in return. thats what put other clubs off IMO

 

[MarcusP2]

Interesting if that is from a week back (Just before the deal was done), but i'm almost certain i heard zero reports leading up to the trade that we were interested, but fair enough.

The only thing i constantly heard is that his preference was for Victoria for some bizarre reason (being from Cairns??)

I guess one telling thing is that not one of McAsey, Sholl or any other contracted players of ours were traded, when surely the prospect of us paying their wage would be have been desirable to other teams.

The article also states the Hawks were offering more than we were, which sounds somewhat unbelievable considering our salary cap should have made us front-runners in that department.

The Hawks traded out three of their highest paid players and are in a rebuild same as us.

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[mick500]

Murphy is a decent footballer. Surprised at the hate for him.

I agree. I've seen enough of macadam however. Wouldn't be in many teams best 22. Shouldn't be in ours either.

 

[Red mist]

I agree. I've seen enough of macadam however. Wouldn't be in many teams best 22. Shouldn't be in ours either.

Well, that’s tripping. The sporadic chance of Murphy delivery outweighs that does it?