Play Nice 2022 Non AFL Crowds/Ratings/Finance/Development thread

[The Educator]

1 + 1 is still 2.

Haha. I actually feel sorry for you. It must be so hard never being understood

Its the money the NRL are chasing & the foreign aid budget is $billions, so $mils are small change.
Australia's foreign aid program in 2022–23 amounts to an estimated $4.549 billion, an increase of $241 million on the 2021–22 estimate of $4.335 billion (inclusive of temporary measures).

I am almost sure the NRL wouldn't want a PNG / PI team in the NRL, even with all that extra tax dollars on offer

It doesn't matter what percentage of the total foreign aid bucket is redirected to an NRL team. All else being equal, it is less money ensuring water is sanitised, security is maintained, judicial and political systems aren't corrupted, kids are educated and the vulnerable have health care. China providing any of that in larger numbers than Australia is far more likely to tip the balance of favorability than whether some kid from Suva is playing union in auckland rather than league in sydney.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Actually a large and growing number of people outside of Australia are interested in it. There are now hundreds of clubs across the world that are a direct propagation of Australian culture. There were barely any 30 years ago.

Bjo187 is dead right on that one. The projection of Australian football culture overseas is the most unambiguous projection of Australian culture as soft power. The aversion to it is a direct result of Australia's stunted self-identity.

Well we're moving into another question here, namely, should the Australian government be pushing Aussie Rules overseas.

My personal feeling is that no matter how "large" and "growing" that number now is, it will never amount to anything much and as such is something of a fool's errand.

 

[The Educator]

Well we're moving into another question here, namely, should the Australian government be pushing Aussie Rules overseas.

My personal feeling is that no matter how "large" and "growing" that number now is, it will never amount to anything much and as such is something of a fool's errand.

Well, I think that is very consistent with my point about a stunted self-identity. A reflexive diminishing

It doesn't really matter "how much it amounts to" every new club in another country is a direct expression of Australian culture. From what I have heard, these clubs are overt expressions of Australian culture regardless of the proportion of expats playing and in them and driving them.

My view is that the AFL and Australian football will raise in prominence globally many many fold globally this century.

 

[Bjo187]

It's really no biggie. There are far bigger issues facing Australia than Albo promoting RL.

Besides, what would be the point of promoting Aussie Rules overseas? It's pretty clear by now no-one else is interested in it. (Probably what I love most about it.)

Well there are far bigger issues in the world in general than anything happening in Australia, but we are here talking about sport and Australian cultural identity and the importance of that.

Australian football will never be massive overseas, not due to it not being a great product, but simply due to the size of our country and how little attention it gets. Only American and British sports have the ability to spread due to their cultural world dominance, both past and present.

In saying all that, it doesn't mean we shouldn't be promoting Australian football internationally as something unique to Australia, no different to kangaroos, boomerangs, the great barrier reef etc.

I lived in America, people were intrigued by it and wanted to know more, rugby on the other hand you can see in the u.s if you want and nobody knows the difference between it and league anyway. Albo needs to get his priorities right and stop representing his own fetishes and start representing Australia and our own unique identity on the world stage. It's an important part his job. So yes the Australian government should be pushing the Australian game overseas, not Northern England's rugby league.

I guarantee you one thing, if the game was invented in Sydney, it would be celebrated as our greatest invention and we'd be ramming it down everybody's throat that would be willing to listen overseas.

 

[Kwality]

Haha. I actually feel sorry for you. It must be so hard never being understood



I am almost sure the NRL wouldn't want a PNG / PI team in the NRL, even with all that extra tax dollars on offer

It doesn't matter what percentage of the total foreign aid bucket is redirected to an NRL team. All else being equal, it is less money ensuring water is sanitised, security is maintained, judicial and political systems aren't corrupted, kids are educated and the vulnerable have health care. China providing any of that in larger numbers than Australia is far more likely to tip the balance of favorability than whether some kid from Suva is playing union in auckland rather than league in sydney.

Stick with footy, foreign affairs arent your forte.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Well, I think that is very consistent with my point about a stunted self-identity. A reflexive diminishing

It doesn't really matter "how much it amounts to" every new club in another country is a direct expression of Australian culture. From what I have heard, these clubs are overt expressions of Australian culture regardless of the proportion of expats playing and in them and driving them.

My view is that the AFL and Australian football will raise in prominence globally many many fold globally this century.

Well there are far bigger issues in the world in general than anything happening in Australia, but we are here talking about sport and Australian cultural identity and the importance of that.

Australian football will never be massive overseas, not due to it not being a great product, but simply due to the size of our country and how little attention it gets. Only American and British sports have the ability to spread due to their cultural world dominance, both past and present.

In saying all that, it doesn't mean we shouldn't be promoting Australian football internationally as something unique to Australia, no different to kangaroos, boomerangs, the great barrier reef etc.

I lived in America, people were intrigued by it and wanted to know more, rugby on the other hand you can see in the u.s if you want and nobody knows the difference between it and league anyway. Albo needs to get his priorities right and stop representing his own fetishes and start representing Australia and our own unique identity on the world stage. It's an important part his job. So yes the Australian government should be pushing the Australian game overseas, not Northern England's rugby league.

I guarantee you one thing, if the game was invented in Sydney, it would be celebrated as our greatest invention and we'd be ramming it down everybody's throat that would be willing to listen overseas.

That's all well and good and some good points made, but the bottom line is that most countries don't have cricket grounds on hand for us to demonstrate the glories of our game. When American and British sports were spreading a century or two ago, there was a lot more real estate available for them to snaffle. The world is a lot more built-out now, and no-one is going to demolish an entire city block to put in an Aussie Rules field.

No matter how great our game is (and I think it's the best game ever devised by the human race), it's about two centuries late on the scene, and coming from the wrong half of the world.

 

[RedV3x]

League/Union link is the same in the UK

You're joking . The situation is reversed in the Uk.

As for the Pacific it will continue to provide talent for both codes worldwide.

But not equally at elite level. Something would have to give.

 

[RedV3x]

A really aggressive unprovoked response and then no explanation. Does this guy usually behave like this?

yes. Always cryptic so as not to make a definitive statement.

 

[RedV3x]

It's really no biggie. There are far bigger issues facing Australia than Albo promoting RL.

Yes, but it's disappointing that someone isn't paing attention to detail.

Besides, what would be the point of promoting Aussie Rules overseas?

Well RU was so fearful of the potential of that they banned it.
There have been many promotions since the early 1900s.
Basically it could have been a very different footbal world.

It's pretty clear by now no-one else is interested in it.

It's pretty clear that you don't know the status of Australian football overseas.
Nauru is more AFL mad than Australia. PNG is regaining it's passion.
RSA, China and N.Z. had huge potential.
Over 55 countries now play Australian Football in regular competition.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

It's pretty clear that you don't know the status of Australian football overseas.
Nauru is more AFL mad than Australia. PNG is regaining it's passion.
RSA, China and N.Z. had huge potential.
Over 55 countries now play Australian Football in regular competition.

LOL no wonder Gianni Infantino’s been so edgy lately.

 

[The Educator]

That's all well and good and some good points made, but the bottom line is that most countries don't have cricket grounds on hand for us to demonstrate the glories of our game. When American and British sports were spreading a century or two ago, there was a lot more real estate available for them to snaffle. The world is a lot more built-out now, and no-one is going to demolish an entire city block to put in an Aussie Rules field.

No matter how great our game is (and I think it's the best game ever devised by the human race), it's about two centuries late on the scene, and coming from the wrong half of the world.

LOL no wonder Gianni Infantino’s been so edgy lately.

I really think your thinking is stuck in a false binary. Nobody is remotely suggesting that Australian football is going to displace soccer and basketball as global sports.

Two points

-there is an enormous depth of value in Australian football clubs forming in foreign countries from a cultural / soft power perspective
-a growing global niche could add substantially to the overall interest in the game

The AFL is never going to get foreign revenues that rival the NBA or the EPL. Australia isn't going to be playing country X with the best AFL players playing - infact I'd be astonished if, by the middle of the century, there were a dozen players who learned the game in foreign countries playing in the AFL. There are not going to be massive ovals bulldozed throughout established cities.

None of this means the AFL won't have considerable growth internationally over the next decades.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I really think your thinking is stuck in a false binary. Nobody is remotely suggesting that Australian football is going to displace soccer and basketball as global sports.

Two points

-there is an enormous depth of value in Australian football clubs forming in foreign countries from a cultural / soft power perspective
-a growing global niche could add substantially to the overall interest in the game

The AFL is never going to get foreign revenues that rival the NBA or the EPL. Australia isn't going to be playing country X with the best AFL players playing - infact I'd be astonished if, by the middle of the century, there were a dozen players who learned the game in foreign countries playing in the AFL. There are not going to be massive ovals bulldozed throughout established cities.

None of this means the AFL won't have considerable growth internationally over the next decades.

Yeah sounds like 5/8 of nothing much to me mate.

Footy's the greatest game in the world.

And the rest of the world hardly cares.

Can't see that those changing in any substantive way.

Doesn't lessen my love of footy one iota, of course.

 

[The Educator]

Yeah sounds like 5/8 of nothing much to me mate.

Footy's the greatest game in the world.

And the rest of the world hardly cares.

Can't see that those changing in any substantive way.

Doesn't lessen my love of footy one iota, of course.

I have noticed in my time a strong correlation between people not able to separate from their own emotional entanglement and people who think in binary.

The funny thing is, it is actually irrelevant whether football is the greatest game in the world or not. Certainly to this conversation. Sporting tastes are obviously subjective.

What is certainly irrelevant is that you both think it is the greatest game in the world and that you don't care if anyone else likes it. Obviously good for you but sure as hell a lot more people outside Australia are engaged in our national game than care about your feelings on the matter....or even more ridiculously, what number of foreign interest would exceed "5/8s of noting much"

It's bordering on solipsism!

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I have noticed in my time a strong correlation between people not able to separate from their own emotional entanglement and people who think in binary.

The funny thing is, it is actually irrelevant whether football is the greatest game in the world or not. Certainly to this conversation. Sporting tastes are obviously subjective.

What is certainly irrelevant is that you both think it is the greatest game in the world and that you don't care if anyone else likes it. Obviously good for you but sure as hell a lot more people outside Australia are engaged in our national game than care about your feelings on the matter....or even more ridiculously, what number of foreign interest would exceed "5/8s of noting much"

It's bordering on solipsism!

Gives us some facts and stats then. Show us evidence of this huge growth, and where it's happening. Let's see what it's made of.

 

[The_Wookie]

make your points without playing the man

Thanks kids.

 

[The_Wookie]

did I stutter?

Knock if off both of you.

 

[JD-Roo]

One of the things that soccer and rugby followers always like to argue (and mistakingly THINK that it is a 'winning' point for them) is that 'Aussie Rules will NEVER be an international sport!"

I have two totally honest responses.

"Good"

and

"Don't care"

"Good" because if it was an international sport like the others, the best players in the world would, as they do for the other sports, take off to where the big money is. In Australia we don't have the population and cash flow to compete with Europe, Asia and the US for player dollars. We would mostly see them live overnight, more often than not in the wee hours and then possibly back here in Oz in the twilight of their careers when they finally contemplate retirement. We'd never see the best AT their best. But we're lucky to have our wonderful game, watching the BEST Aussie Rules players IN THE WORLD EVERY SINGLE WEEK. In major sport that is a very rare thing. NFL might be able to say the same thing, but even MLB loses players to the Asian leagues due to $$$.

"Don't care" because I absolutely LOVE the reaction that gets from people arguing from the other sport's viewpoint. The thought that I(we?) couldn't give a rats about international growth/status is something they simply just cannot fathom, because they've had to be locked into that mindset for their entire lives watching their sport. It's a totally 'foreign' concept to them - pun 100% intended.

 

[Kwality]

One of the things that soccer and rugby followers always like to argue (and mistakingly THINK that it is a 'winning' point for them) is that 'Aussie Rules will NEVER be an international sport!"

I have two totally honest responses.

"Good"

and

"Don't care"

"Good" because if it was an international sport like the others, the best players in the world would, as they do for the other sports, take off to where the big money is. In Australia we don't have the population and cash flow to compete with Europe, Asia and the US for player dollars. We would mostly see them live overnight, more often than not in the wee hours and then possibly back here in Oz in the twilight of their careers when they finally contemplate retirement. We'd never see the best AT their best. But we're lucky to have our wonderful game, watching the BEST Aussie Rules players IN THE WORLD EVERY SINGLE WEEK. In major sport that is a very rare thing. NFL might be able to say the same thing, but even MLB loses players to the Asian leagues due to $$$.

"Don't care" because I absolutely LOVE the reaction that gets from people arguing from the other sport's viewpoint. The thought that I(we?) couldn't give a rats about international growth/status is something they simply just cannot fathom, because they've had to be locked into that mindset for their entire lives watching their sport. It's a totally 'foreign' concept to them - pun 100% intended.

Fair enough, but comparing Aus soccer with AFL footy is futile. Comparing F1 with Aus Formula Ford is irrelevant.... the best AFL players will stay here, whereas someone like Sam Kerr mixes it with the best in the world, something she would never do if she chose to play Aussie Rules.

Not that any of that matters when you choose to ignore it, as is your right.

Mind you Sam in an Eagles strip would be worth seeing wherever it would be.

 

[The Educator]

One of the things that soccer and rugby followers always like to argue (and mistakingly THINK that it is a 'winning' point for them) is that 'Aussie Rules will NEVER be an international sport!"

I have two totally honest responses.

"Good"

and

"Don't care"

"Good" because if it was an international sport like the others, the best players in the world would, as they do for the other sports, take off to where the big money is. In Australia we don't have the population and cash flow to compete with Europe, Asia and the US for player dollars. We would mostly see them live overnight, more often than not in the wee hours and then possibly back here in Oz in the twilight of their careers when they finally contemplate retirement. We'd never see the best AT their best. But we're lucky to have our wonderful game, watching the BEST Aussie Rules players IN THE WORLD EVERY SINGLE WEEK. In major sport that is a very rare thing. NFL might be able to say the same thing, but even MLB loses players to the Asian leagues due to $$$.

"Don't care" because I absolutely LOVE the reaction that gets from people arguing from the other sport's viewpoint. The thought that I(we?) couldn't give a rats about international growth/status is something they simply just cannot fathom, because they've had to be locked into that mindset for their entire lives watching their sport. It's a totally 'foreign' concept to them - pun 100% intended.

Agree partially on the good and very much on the don't care

Certainly glad that Australian football isn't soccer or basketball levels of popularity in europe or north america with that outcome you present. I think, from here, any growth OS will just be tributary to Australia / the AFL though. Not many $2 billion a year sports leagues on the planet

The "don't care" sure does seem to make people already demoralised that our national game is so dominant go completely out of their wits!

 

[kalex6251]

quick note: from my humble and ill-informed vantage point, the anger/angst towards AFL appears to be largely sydney centred ..... have not observed the same levels of disquiet amongst qlders (happpy to be corrected)

if true, something about AFL has rattled the cultural fabric of australias so-called global city ....... would be an interesting academic study

 

[Gigantor]

One of the things that soccer and rugby followers always like to argue (and mistakingly THINK that it is a 'winning' point for them) is that 'Aussie Rules will NEVER be an international sport!"

I have two totally honest responses.

"Good"

and

"Don't care"

"Good" because if it was an international sport like the others, the best players in the world would, as they do for the other sports, take off to where the big money is. In Australia we don't have the population and cash flow to compete with Europe, Asia and the US for player dollars. We would mostly see them live overnight, more often than not in the wee hours and then possibly back here in Oz in the twilight of their careers when they finally contemplate retirement. We'd never see the best AT their best. But we're lucky to have our wonderful game, watching the BEST Aussie Rules players IN THE WORLD EVERY SINGLE WEEK. In major sport that is a very rare thing. NFL might be able to say the same thing, but even MLB loses players to the Asian leagues due to $$$.

"Don't care" because I absolutely LOVE the reaction that gets from people arguing from the other sport's viewpoint. The thought that I(we?) couldn't give a rats about international growth/status is something they simply just cannot fathom, because they've had to be locked into that mindset for their entire lives watching their sport. It's a totally 'foreign' concept to them - pun 100% intended.

Also, I'm always curious as to why any reasonably intelligent aussie would want to reduce our nation to the standards of the rest of the world?
Pretty daft idea I would have thought.
Let us raise the standards of the rest of the world to Australian standards.

 

[Kwality]

quick note: from my humble and ill-informed vantage point, the anger/angst towards AFL appears to be largely sydney centred ..... have not observed the same levels of disquiet amongst qlders (happpy to be corrected)

if true, something about AFL has rattled the cultural fabric of australias so-called global city ....... would be an interesting academic study

On BF, by a minority of AFL fans who choose this 'non AFL' thread to refer to LU as if it is relevant. A poor excuse to try & promote code wars.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Soccer’s expansion plans - they will be expanding from the current 12 teams to 16 in 3 years. Canberra and Auckland will be Teams 13 and 14, and will mean that there are now 2 NZ teams in the competition. Team 15 and 16 candidates include Gold Coast, Wollongong and another Brisbane team.

A-Leagues to add Canberra, Auckland teams in $50m expansion

amp.smh.com.au

 

[kranger]

Soccer’s expansion plans - they will be expanding from the current 12 teams to 16 in 3 years. Canberra and Auckland will be Teams 13 and 14, and will mean that there are now 2 NZ teams in the competition. Team 15 and 16 candidates include Gold Coast, Wollongong and another Brisbane team.

A-Leagues to add Canberra, Auckland teams in $50m expansion

amp.smh.com.au

An ABC article on the A-League expansion.

A-Leagues set to expand to Canberra and Auckland for 2024-25 season

The Australian Professional Leagues are set to introduce a men's team to Canberra and a new club to Auckland as they look to expand to blossoming markets.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

An ABC article on the A-League expansion.

A-Leagues set to expand to Canberra and Auckland for 2024-25 season

The Australian Professional Leagues are set to introduce a men's team to Canberra and a new club to Auckland as they look to expand to blossoming markets.

www.abc.net.au

"Blossoming markets"? Not if match day crowds or viewing figures are anything to go on.