List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[Mowman]

No, because they are completely different statements.

Wanting to back youth and start developing your own young midfielders rather than continually bringing in GOP's or players in the twighlight of their career as stop gaps is not the same as suggesting they are better than a brownlow medalist.

Well said, thank you

 

[NarklesHelmet]

By the time Windhager and Owens are even close to good enough to be copping tags, Mitchell will be at least 33 and close to cooked.

All he will do in the meantime is roll around in an aging midfield consisting of 3 players 29-30 taking minutes away from those two.

If you've got 3 players of that age as 3 of your main mids you would want to be contending I reckon. Not sure he improves us that much

Like I said, it’s not something I’d die on a hill over if you know what I mean but, if we want to be contenders say next year, a mid rotation of 2 extractors (Mitchell and Crouch), and 4 inside/out mids in Steele, De Goey, Windhager and Owens would be right up there with the best mids in the comp with the added benefit for the latter two to develop quickly in winning teams (then you’d have depth options of Gresh, Jones and Bytel when inevitable injuries occur).

I’m just a little sick of having sub- standard midfields to be honest that mean we go into contests hoping our midfield holds up instead of having confidence that if our mids perform, we win (like we had all the rough the 90s and 2000s).

Whenever Hanners came in, you’d realise how much class we were missing through there and Mitchell just adds to that now Hanners is gone.

Gringo cops shit about it, but his point that our best footy last year, when we went toe-to-toe against brutish midfields that had bullied us for years in Richmond and Brisbane coincided with Dunstan polling 15 votes and going beast mode, is a good one because it makes you realise that we are still an inside bull short in there.

An inside bull that racks up the possessions like Mitchell will make the rest of the mids better in my opinion and even accelerate the development of our young mids.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

What's the deal with the Irishman McKenna? If clubs do their due diligence and he's fit etc, etc, does he nominate for and have to be taken through the draft?

 

[Mowman]

No, because they are completely different statements.

Wanting to back youth and start developing your own young midfielders rather than continually bringing in GOP's or players in the twighlight of their career as stop gaps is not the same as suggesting they are better than a brownlow medalist.

Also reported that Mitchell is on around $700k

I would rather we back our youth and development and spend money else where

 

[Jade Buddha]

Would be a shame to lose Ben Long for nothing

Wait what?

 

[Mowman]

Wait what?

He is not contracted and can walk to North in the pre season draft

 

[bird_man]

Wait what?

North are keen and hold the first round in the PSD

It means they can either walk him straight there or low ball us with an offer that we have to take

 

[lewdogs]

No, because they are completely different statements.

Wanting to back youth and start developing your own young midfielders rather than continually bringing in GOP's or players in the twighlight of their career as stop gaps is not the same as suggesting they are better than a brownlow medalist.

We are developing our own young mids but as people often state we are also in the business of winning and if you can get a bloke in that will make you better for cheap while still drafting then maybe you take it. It seems to be working for Geelong.

 

[Jade Buddha]

He is not contracted and can walk to North in the pre season draft

Ok so nothing concrete yet

 

[Mowman]

Ok so nothing concrete yet

No not yet
Its a worry he isn't signed yet though

 

[bird_man]

Like I said, it’s not something I’d die on a hill over if you know what I mean but, if we want to be contenders say next year, a mid rotation of 2 extractors (Mitchell and Crouch), and 4 inside/out mids in Steele, De Goey, Windhager and Owens would be right up there with the best mids in the comp with the added benefit for the latter two to develop quickly in winning teams (then you’d have depth options of Gresh, Jones and Bytel when inevitable injuries occur).

I’m just a little sick of having sub- standard midfields to be honest that mean we go into contests hoping our midfield holds up instead of having confidence that if our mids perform, we win (like we had all the rough the 90s and 2000s).

Whenever Hanners came in, you’d realise how much class we were missing through there and Mitchell just adds to that now Hanners is gone.

Gringo cops s**t about it, but his point that our best footy last year, when we went toe-to-toe against brutish midfields that had bullied us for years in Richmond and Brisbane coincided with Dunstan polling 15 votes and going beast mode, is a good one because it makes you realise that we are still an inside bull short in there.

An inside bull that racks up the possessions like Mitchell will make the rest of the mids better in my opinion and even accelerate the development of our young mids.

I'd probably agree with you I thought we were a genuine chance of contending next year but I dont see it unfortunately

 

[gringo2011]

I think that's a great comparison for him, but Stringer was unlucky not to be AA last year. Been disappointing this year though.

He'll still frustrate fans like he does at the Pies.

No, because they are completely different statements.

Wanting to back youth and start developing your own young midfielders rather than continually bringing in GOP's or players in the twighlight of their career as stop gaps is not the same as suggesting they are better than a brownlow medalist.

That's why you need a really in depth review into the list. If we are genuinely close we should load up, Owens and Windhager might have second year blues, we lose Bytel and Jones and are looking a pretty lightweight set up.

To me a good game plan should have had us playing finals this year and the coaches should be the most under pressure people at the club and even with a shit plan we probably could have survived the second half of the year if we hadn't fallen over when Steele went out. Hanners coming back in showed how good another quality mid would look in the side.

To me we probably top up regardless because people's jobs are at stake. Ratts and Lethers are in survival mode. Missing finals next year probably costs half a dozen people their jobs.

We should have all high picks locked in a cupboard so that no reckless idiot is tempted to move them. We probably have pick 10 and what ever we get for Nas and a second round pick.

 

[bird_man]

We are developing our own young mids but as people often state we are also in the business of winning and if you can get a bloke in that will make you better for cheap while still drafting then maybe you take it. It seems to be working for Geelong.

Geelong are and have been in a completely different position to us.

They are constantly in contention and can afford to keep topping up

Us topping up may get us from 10th to 7th if everything goes right.

They have the stars there.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

I'd probably agree with you I thought we were a genuine chance of contending next year but I dont see it unfortunately

Mate, I can see your point of view.

I think we are all a bit confused about where we are at and so are the club as well in all likelihood so it’s a bit uncertain how we will approach this off-season.

 

[AirWinmar]

The steal of the draft. Still no idea how he managed to slide that far.

Yep it's a mystery

 

[gringo2011]

I'd probably agree with you I thought we were a genuine chance of contending next year but I dont see it unfortunately

Probably not contending but even contesting would be what the president wants now. I think that regardless we probably chase some top ups just to not lose ground. You can do both, bring through youth and have a solid core. Looks like Mitchell will cost too much but looking for another mid is probably a smart idea. Carlton looked stacked once they got Cerra and Hewett and Matt Kennedy stepped up. It looked too many but it turned them from shit to a serious side. They ****ed their chances but they looked a lot closer than us.

 

[Joffaboy]

Should we hold the horses before lambasting our trade period?

We haven't lost Long.
We haven't signed Mitchell.
We haven't lost Bytel.
(Although the idea that a Brownlow medallist isn't an upgrade on Bytel is laughable.)

Let's just wait and see.

I'm certain the idea will be to try to get better while also having a strong draft hand. Thus the appeal of players like Mitchell and De Goey.

But nothing has happened yet.

Where's the fun in that.

We are doomed I tellz ya, dooooomed

 

[gringo2011]

Geelong are and have been in a completely different position to us.

They are constantly in contention and can afford to keep topping up

Us topping up may get us from 10th to 7th if everything goes right.

They have the stars there.

I'm pretty sure the decision makers would take that to be honest. I'm not sure Gellong are a team of stars any more. They have a few stars but they just have quality all the way through and a great set up with a system that every player on the list knows. Their best players would be Stewart, Cameron and Tom Hawkins. Their midfield is quite meh with Selwood and Danger close to the end. Duncan and Guthrie are both good but they aren't stars.

 

[Joffaboy]

No, because they are completely different statements.

Wanting to back youth and start developing your own young midfielders rather than continually bringing in GOP's or players in the twighlight of their career as stop gaps is not the same as suggesting they are better than a brownlow medalist.

Exactly

 

[AirWinmar]

I reckon people don't quite realise that JDG is probably nearly perfect as a comparison for Stringer. Really both look like absolute stars on their day but just as likely to go missing. At 26 he's probably always going to be that guy. Stringer is playing more forward time still but very similar types.

He'll suit us more than Hill but if they expect him to make us a finalist by swapping him with Hill alone, I think we'll be in this same position in 3 years time.

I can see the merrit in JDG tho from the pov that he is that line breaking goal kicking mid forward type we could use, he is similar to Gresh but a bigger body. Personally I wouldn't or if we did would have some serious clauses around it.i wouldn't entertain Mitchell or Crouch - we already have the better Crouch and Steele as well as Bytel in the wings that are this type of mid. We need to get as much midfield time as we can into Owens, Windy and Bytel. Out of Steele, B. Crouch and either of M.Crouch or Mitchell, who would we have at Sandy? I don't think we could play all of them in the same side without making us the slowest midfield in history and also delaying the development of Owens, Windy and Bytel

 

[Mowman]

Hanners coming back in showed how good another quality mid would look in the side.

Maybe this is why they are enquiring about Mitch

Not like for like but both very good

Mitchell still a no for me

 

[gringo2011]

I can see the merrit in JDG tho from the pov that he is that line breaking goal kicking mid forward type we could use, he is similar to Gresh but a bigger body. Personally I wouldn't or if we did would have some serious clauses around it.i wouldn't entertain Mitchell or Crouch - we already have the better Crouch and Steele as well as Bytel in the wings that are this type of mid. We need to get as much midfield time as we can into Owens, Windy and Bytel. Out of Steele, B. Crouch and either of M.Crouch or Mitchell, who would we have at Sandy? I don't think we could play all of them in the same side without making us the slowest midfield in history and also delaying the development of Owens, Windy and Bytel

It sounds as though Bytel is gone if he can get to Essendon. Owens and Windy have to back up in year 2 which is often hard. I think Windhager probably more likely because with his tagging he can lock on with little expectation for his own game.

Currently sides are using their inside mids to move the ball forward to break lines. Guys that can grab the ball and rip it out are in demand. Stat padders like Macrae have lost some gloss. Sides also distribute their mids in positions like the high half forward role and HBF.

JDG makes some sense but he's not going to make us an instant contender on his own. He's a sometimes A grader sometimes B grader. Hill probably had the more consistent career but didn't help.

Ratts is going to have to do a few coaching courses in the off season IMO. If he can't change to something a bit more on trend as far as game plans go, I don't think it will matter who we bring in.

Looking at Richmond just pisses me off more about 2022, they are a very ordinary side playing another very ordinary side who is worse. We have to sit it out and I think it's motivation and coaching that hurt us the most this year.

 

[Mowman]

I reckon people don't quite realise that JDG is probably nearly perfect as a comparison for Stringer. Really both look like absolute stars on their day but just as likely to go missing. At 26 he's probably always going to be that guy. Stringer is playing more forward time still but very similar types.

He'll suit us more than Hill but if they expect him to make us a finalist by swapping him with Hill alone, I think we'll be in this same position in 3 years time.

Degoey for $$$ only makes sense to me as long as we take at least pick 10 & 27 to the draft and 2 more kids to add to Windy - Owens - King - Sharman

Degoey will make life easier for Steele - Ross - Crouch and i agree we should be running Sincs through the midfield more

 

[AirWinmar]

I'm pretty sure the decision makers would take that to be honest. I'm not sure Gellong are a team of stars any more. They have a few stars but they just have quality all the way through and a great set up with a system that every player on the list knows. Their best players would be Stewart, Cameron and Tom Hawkins. Their midfield is quite meh with Selwood and Danger close to the end. Duncan and Guthrie are both good but they aren't stars.

That's a fair point, Geelong have a great system and the stars bit was probably historically in their midfield. But for us, our issue isn't we don't have enough gops, but in my view it's not the gops that are the issue.

We need to develop or bring in when we can stars and be careful about bringing in gops or above average gops that are going to take a spot from your chance at developing a star or bringing one in should they become available - ie Treloar.

 

[gringo2011]

Maybe this is why they are enquiring about Mitch

Not like for like but both very good

Mitchell still a no for me

I think he'd have had us playing finals this year for sure. That makes him appeal alone. He'll be retiring just as our guys start their real peak too so it kind of makes sense. Going to the footy expecting to win will do me at the moment. I don't think we built the foundation for premiership side so have to keep nailing boards over the holes and hope for a miracle.

We still have very few good youth compared to others and our side is quite mature and if we are going to play finals with guys like Ross, Crouch, Membrey, Sinclair, Webster etc we probably have to start making hay.