List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[hayes]

Our best 22 played some good football this year against good sides. We aren't that far off. We need to improve our depth and fill a few holes to take that next step.

We need more young players coming through but we aren't about to fall off a cliff because we couldn't win the u23 bigfooty dick measuring contest.

We played the best sides in the second half of the year and went 3-8. We are lightyears off it.

 

[BrutThough]

Because it’s just a hard time to be a supporter at the moment. We’ve gone back to players not wanting to come to us, we’ve missed out on two finals series since making one. Players haven’t come on as we would have liked. Failed trades in hill and Hanners have lead us nowhere. It’s very glass half empty at the moment. I know this stuff has been discussed to death but it’s very depressing seeing other teams go ahead of us again while we seem to be stuck in the middle.

Then stop wallowing in the past. Time to stop forcing every past mistake into every single discussion when it is not relevant. You'd think we struggled to win a game this year with how some are talking about the way we played. No wonder it seems depressing to be a supporter.

For every player that hasn't come on this year, we've also had some who have taken big steps forward or surprised everyone with their form. For all the failed trades of the past, we have players performing who we got from other clubs. For every player who we have traded out there are dozen running around at local leagues who everyone insisted would go to Hawthorn and be a star. For every draft pick we got wrong, we have someone which every other club overlooked who is killing it.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Good post and will be around the 10th - 12th spot at best for a little while

I’m always optimistic but it’s very hard to be at the moment.

 

[BrutThough]

We played the best sides in the second half of the year and went 3-8. We are lightyears off it.

We were a few goals off beating two prelim finalists the last 2 rounds.

Obviously improvement is needed but we aren't starting from ground zero either.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Then stop wallowing in the past. Time to stop forcing every past mistake into every single discussion eve when it is not relevant. You'd think we struggled to win a game this year with how some are talking about the way we played. No wonder it seems depressing to be a supporter.

For every player that hasn't come on this year, we've also had some who have taken big steps forward or surprised everyone with their form. For all the failed trades of the past, we have players performing who we got from other clubs. For every player who we have traded out there are dozen running around at local leagues who everyone insisted would go to Hawthorn and be a star. For every draft pick we got wrong, we have someone which every other club overlooked who is killing it.

You asked why I thought we are in a world of pain and I simply gave my thoughts. I don’t ever go back and wallow on past issues.

 

[lewdogs]

Good post and will be around the 10th - 12th spot at best for a little while

There are ways we can work ourselves out of that area and up the ladder. It's called the players on our list improving. It's not all about trading in players.

 

[Gosaints12]

I'd take Richmond's first straight out.

Go into the draft with picks 9 and 13, try to nab one of GC's 2nd rounders for Long. Try to get a forward option with a later pik.

4 picks in the first 4 rounds, an added forward and finish the list with a one or two of our delisted player finds which we have been fairly good at.

Don’t think Longs worth a second, reckon we might get 34 with 45 going back. Do think Weideman from Melbourne is a good call.


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[Mowman]

I’m always optimistic but it’s very hard to be at the moment.

I Think they have realised the list isnt up to it and are preparing for a reset,
Try to get some good early picks and hopefully get some quality kids to go with King - Windy - Owens - NWM - Sharman and get some breathing space next year playing kids

 

[BrutThough]

Don’t think Longs worth a second, reckon we might get 34 with 45 going back. Do think Weideman from Melbourne is a good call.


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I agree but GC need points for next year and will have a plethora of picks so I'm hoping we could do some pick swaps to get one of their 2nd rounders this year.

 

[Yawkey way]

Thanks for your response Yawkey way .
I mentioned 2012 in my post only because Gringo is fixated on history and 10 years ago seemed an appropriate rebuttal. Given the people now in charge are carrying the burden of that history but aren’t responsible for it.
Those numbers quoted are based on Finnis’s tenure, so 2014 is your reference, and we finished 18th that year.
Who is responsible for the off field turnaround?
I don’t think we can allocate responsibility to any individual, rather I believe that we finally got some shrewd directors who could see further than their egos. To come from where we were is the result of great vision and an incredible amount of hard work. We posters are football supporters from all walks of life so I accept that the off field improvement is lost on some. Hopefully I can explain it in a way that assists in improving everyone’s knowledge about the entire club performance, not just the week to week win/loss.
And you are correct, discussing this in the 2022 Trade Thread isn’t appropriate.
But in my defence, if you read my OP, it is an observation about list management strategy, my belief that the strategy has changed, and why.

Fantastic off field effort, I really rate Matt Finnis. What he along with others have achieved will hold the club in good stead for decades. If only we had the same sense of purpose and long term planning on the field I’d be a happy man. You are right though it’s not all doom and gloom although it’s easy to loose sight of that when the on field expectations aren’t met.

 

[The_Steadier]

Which is why it won’t happen.

Hope so.

If gags and lethers trade clark for a ho-hum deal... that- ontop of the club agreeing to re-sign ratten before we'd played a lot of top teams.... would have my microwave meet my membership for the first time ever.

I like my membership and microwave being strangers- i really do hope we either don't trade clark or if we do decide to move him on... it's for a truly fantastic deal at bare minimum.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[Mowman]

There are ways we can work ourselves out of that area and up the ladder. It's called the players on our list improving. It's not all about trading in players.

every single club will be doing the same thing as well looking for improvement from within

our list isn't a top 4 list far from it and it needs a lot of work

 

[Joffaboy]

We have less under 23s than just about any side and have FA to trade out that isn't required or would bring in a decent pick. If we don't make finals next year they have an out that we played the kids. They think we won't be any worse off without him because he hardly played?

We played the kids most of this year. You conspiracy theory is non sensical.

 

[stavro#4]

This back and forward is tiresome and the euphoria of North getting fisted by Gil and his cronies is disappearing.

Someone go tell the North board that Gringo is our ITK with a hugely successful strike rate and ….

He said we are trading King for pick 1 and their future first. Saints to be rebuilding.

Let’s see if it we make the media.

 

[Mowman]

This back and forward is tiresome and the euphoria of North getting fisted by Gil and his cronies is disappearing.

Someone go tell the North board that Gringo is our ITK with a hugely successful strike rate and ….

He said we are trading King for pick 1 and their future first. Saints to be rebuilding.

Let’s see if it we make the media.

Just give North Hill - Clark - pick 10 and Ratts for Clarko

 

[The_Steadier]

We would be lucky to get pick 12. Thinking we would get anymore then that is a very one eyed expectation.

Tom mitchell went to hawks for pick 14.

He was (at the time) more accomplished than clark is at this point, though clark has more untapped potential than mitchell appeared to have when he was traded.

Given that- I agree, a 'fair' reasonable market price would be around pick 12 for a contracted clark.

I will consider gags and lethers to be completely screwing our club over if we took a 'fair', reasonable deal for clark.

Even if he does have purported issues being uber super professional (eg not doing extras in the gym etc).... that is not even close to a good reason to ship him off for a ho-hum market price when he is at his lowest possible value.

The guy has shown enough to suggest he could easily make a sinclair and steele sized jump into being a genuine elite player if he can get a clean injury run.

You don't kick that out of bed for ho-hum.

(Unless you are utterly incompetent or trying to shuffle deck chairs around in a desperate bid to keep your own job)

 

[Mowman]

Tom mitchell went to hawks for pick 14.

He was (at the time) more accomplished than clark is at this point, though clark has more untapped potential than mitchell appeared to have when he was traded.

Given that- I agree, a 'fair' reasonable market price would be around pick 12 for a contracted clark.

I will consider gags and lethers to be completely screwing our club over if we took a 'fair', reasonable deal for clark.

Even if he does have purported issues being uber super professional (eg not doing extras in the gym etc).... that is not even close to a good reason to ship him off for a ho-hum market price when he is at his lowest possible value.

The guy has shown enough to suggest he could easily make a sinclair and steele sized jump into being a genuine elite player if he can get a clean injury run.

You don't kick that out of bed for ho-hum.

From what I understand he had a very good pre season

 

[Joffaboy]

We were a few goals off beating two prelim finalists the last 2 rounds.

Obviously improvement is needed but we aren't starting from ground zero either.

No we are worse than North that's why we came last this year [emoji2957].
We were a disappointment and changes need to be made nobody denies that, but while we are miles of top four we are in no man's land, the new Richmond, which is almost more frustrating than being North or WCE who at least know where they need to go.
We OTOH just bumble about between 11th and 9th sometimes making the bottom of the eight.

 

[JediSaint]

Heeney (2014), Mills (2015), Blakey (2018), Campbell (2020) and Gulden (2020)

The first 3 would be in out top 6 players.

Have you seen who the swans have delisted since 2016.

Tom Mitchell, Toby Nankervis, Jordan Dawson, Aliir Aliir, Darcy Cameron, Zak Jones, Dan Hannerbury, Gray Rohan, Nic Newman.

With this much talent leaving the club and still playing off in a grand final.

There is rumor we are losing Clark and Ling wants out and sh*t hits the fan.
This is why we don’t play in grand finals.

 

[The_Steadier]

We played the best sides in the second half of the year and went 3-8. We are lightyears off it.

So were the pies until they gave their coach the ass

 

[hayes]

So were the pies until they gave their coach the ass

They played in a grand final, a prelim and an elimination final before their one bad year. Their talent has never been the question.

 

[JediSaint]

Agree with all of this.
As far as tempting a free agent goes, where you need to overpay, I think our offer is pretty responsible.
Wouldn't be happy with any more, personally.

Pay overs! He can turn a game. Who else do we have that can do that in our club.
No one!

If we clear out Hill why not.
Who would you prefer in the team right now paying 900k

 

[gubby88]

Pay overs! He can turn a game. Who else do we have that can do that in our club.
No one!

If we clear out Hill why not.
Who would you prefer in the team right now paying 900k

King, Higgins, Steele, Sinclair, Hayes has also nearly done it.
Windhager has the attributes to as well.


We have a few

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[JediSaint]

Look its probably just wishful thinking on my part, but McCrae's language, don't remember the exact words, just didn't sound like it was done.
And even being caught up in finals, he would have to have been aware of the status of one of his star players.

As I say...wishful thinking.

McRae after the loss on Sat said in his press conference;

"I grabbed his manager and said 'let's get to work on this', because I've said this openly, I want Jordy at our footy club next year," McRae said.

"Now I don't know how that's progressing, but hopefully it's progressing in the right direction — not because he's Jordy de Goey, but I just think this environment is the best place for Jordy de Goey."