List Mgmt. 2023 Draft/Trade/FA thread

[Scythe]

Seems a good time to pin this:


OOC players:

• Michael Hibberd (retired)
• Deakyn Smith (delisted)
• Andy Moniz-Wakefield
• Jake Melksham (delisted, will be re-drafted as a rookie)
• Luke Dunstan (retired)
• James Jordon (signed with Sydney as a Free Agent)
• Kye Turner (delisted)

Traded out:

• James Harmes (Bulldogs)
• Brodie Grundy (Sydney)

Traded in:

• Tom Fullarton (Brisbane)
• Jack Billings (St Kilda)
• Shane McAdam (Adelaide)

Drafted:

• Caleb Windsor (Pick 7)
• Koltyn Tholstrup (Pick 13)
• Kynan Brown (Rookie)

 

[BaliDemon]

Yeah. Probably for another thread but I reckon the whole let’s bottom out for picks is from a bygone era. Reckon we could’ve saved ourselves a fair bit of pain in the Bailey/Neeld era by not playing so many players based on their birth certificate or draft position.

Roos had a pretty simple philosophy of let’s get the best out of the cattle that we have.

Clarry (4), Tracc (2), Gus (3) and Viney (father son but who would’ve been a top 5er) say hello. Our entire engine room.

History says if you want to win a flag or flags (not just hover around the top eight) you need multiple superstars and you generally only get them at the very pointy end of the draft. I don’t think that situation is going to change anytime soon.

How would the Pies go this weekend without Pendlebury (5), DeGoey (5) Daicos and Moore? Nowhere near it. Wouldn’t have even made a prelim.

 

[Bluelegs]

Yeah. Probably for another thread but I reckon the whole let’s bottom out for picks is from a bygone era. Reckon we could’ve saved ourselves a fair bit of pain in the Bailey/Neeld era by not playing so many players based on their birth certificate or draft position.

Roos had a pretty simple philosophy of let’s get the best out of the cattle that we have.

I'm on the fence a bit here. Every team wants to be Geelong and Sydney and contend 80% of the time but realistically most teams are going to fall away at some point. Right now I'd much rather be North than Essendon. The latter has never truly bottomed out and have little to show for it. Just a mediocre team that makes token appearances in finals. North have had it rough for a few seasons but I think they are very well placed for a flag tilt in a couple of years.

 

[BaliDemon]

I'm on the fence a bit here. Every team wants to be Geelong and Sydney and contend 80% of the time but realistically most teams are going to fall away at some point. Right now I'd much rather be North than Essendon. The latter has never truly bottomed out and have little to show for it. Just a mediocre team that makes token appearances in finals. North have had it rough for a few seasons but I think they are very well placed for a flag tilt in a couple of years.

Correct.
All these coaches coming out lamenting North’s concessions and high picks too is pretty pathetic. Essendon, the Saints and a few others chose that middle of the road no-man’s land path for too long and now they’re paying the price for it. Average lists without genuine star quality. Watch North scream past them like a formula one car in 36 months.

 

[Bluelegs]

Correct.
All these coaches coming out lamenting North’s concessions and high picks too is pretty pathetic. Essendon, the Saints and a few others chose that middle of the road no-man’s land path for too long and now they’re paying the price for it. Average lists without genuine star quality. Watch North scream past them in 36 months.

Can't go with you there. Don't think anyone is cracking the sads over North getting pick 2 for finishing 17th. It's the priority picks that are crap. The high draft picks you get from bottoming out is plenty. PP's and compo picks actually disadvantage every other team so I think it's fair to be shitty over them.

 

[Johnny Karate]

I'm on the fence a bit here. Every team wants to be Geelong and Sydney and contend 80% of the time but realistically most teams are going to fall away at some point. Right now I'd much rather be North than Essendon. The latter has never truly bottomed out and have little to show for it. Just a mediocre team that makes token appearances in finals. North have had it rough for a few seasons but I think they are very well placed for a flag tilt in a couple of years.

I hear you and get that it is hard to defy gravity but for me even if you are in/due for a lean patch you still have to have high expectations. No point saying competitive a million times per press conference, talking up training standards and attempted tackle stats. Also, freezing out senior players is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Bluelegs]

I hear you and get that it is hard to defy gravity but for me even if you are in/due for a lean patch you still have to have high expectations. No point saying competitive a million times per press conference, talking up training standards and attempted tackle stats. Also, freezing out senior players is a recipe for disaster.

Yeah I know what you mean, you don't want to blow up the club but I also don't think you should be afraid of finishing bottom 4 for a couple of years is all I'm saying. I think Hawthorn have done it perfectly despite being accused of ruining their list with top-up players. Since they re-assessed they have pretty much handled their list build perfectly.

 

[BaliDemon]

Can't go with you there. Don't think anyone is cracking the sads over North getting pick 2 for finishing 17th. It's the priority picks that are crap. The high draft picks you get from bottoming out is plenty. PP's and compo picks actually disadvantage every other team so I think it's fair to be shitty over them.

Their ‘extra reward’ for four terrible years is a few end of first round picks, which are likely to be pushed out to picks in the 20+ range which is okay, but no great shakes. Why be sh1tty over that?

It’s the succession of top 3 picks that they will really be building their list around. The McKay pick 3 compo as well. That’s where the gold is.

There are first rounders and then there are first rounders - the gilt edged cream of the crop picks. The best 5 kids as assessed by most recruiters in the country.

 

[Bluelegs]

Their ‘extra reward’ for four terrible years is a few end of first round picks, which are likely to be pushed out to picks in the 20+ range which is okay, but no great shakes. Why be sh1tty over that?

It’s the succession of top 3 picks that they will really be building their list around. The McKay pick 3 compo as well. That’s where the gold is.

There are first rounders and then there are first rounders - the gilt edged cream of the crop picks.

Except the extra first rounders could give them the capital to move up the draft. If Melbourne were close to having enough to tempt Gold Coast for pick 4 North may have just been handed enough to beat us for example. Same for trades etc, nothing happens in a vaccum. The draft is a brilliant system that has been ruined by concession after concession in different forms.

 

[Johnny Karate]

Yeah I know what you mean, you don't want to blow up the club but I also don't think you should be afraid of finishing bottom 4 for a couple of years is all I'm saying. I think Hawthorn have done it perfectly despite being accused of ruining their list with top-up players. Since they re-assessed they have pretty much handled their list build perfectly.

Agree on Hawthorn’s list build. Interestingly, Weddle, Sicily, Jiath, Hardwick, Day, Newcombe, Reeves, Moore, Nash, Worpel and Lewis were all picked from mid first round to the arse of the draft. Amon, Scrimshaw and Meek were good trade/fa pickups. They’ll soon add D’Ambrosio which is another good targeted piece of recruiting.

I agree that pointy end draft picks in Macdonald, Ward and Mackenzie look good and a couple of superstars recruited at the top of the draft probably secures their next flag. However, the bulk of their list build has been pretty spare parts.

If we had the levels of recruiting in that first par, we probably have the best list in the comp.

 

[Lord Nev]

 

[Bluelegs]

Get the feeling Bedford's form this year has left us a little red-faced.

 

[Lord Nev]

Get the feeling Bedford's form this year has left us a little red-faced.

Perhaps, we tried to keep him apparently but sounds like the Giants were better at guaranteeing him opportunity.

In saying that, reckon Spargo and Tommmo would both be walking this year if they were out of contract.

 

[I Love Lamb]

We should try to maximise compo for Jordan. He is only 22 and age is a consideration when working out compensation bands.

Find a way to rort a band1 Dees - get it done.

 

[Johnny Karate]

We should try to maximise compo for Jordan. He is only 22 and age is a consideration when working out compensation bands.

Find a way to rort a band1 Dees - get it done.

As far as I know he’s UFA, doesn’t that mean no compensation?

 

[BaliDemon]

SEN reporting Todd Goldstein

17

Todd Goldstein

Age

37

Ht

201cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

7.5

5star

CL

3.1

5star

HO

32.5

5star

D

16.7

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

7.4

4star

CL

7.0

5star

HO

32.9

5star

D

5.2

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

2.6

3star

HO

10.0

5star

might go to Pies for 2024 season.

He’s just as big a legend/fabric player at North as Tom Hawkins

26

Tom Hawkins

Age

37

Ht

197cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

2.1

5star

D

12.7

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.1

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

2.2

5star

is at Geelong. So why not us getting Tomahawk for 2024 with option for 2025 as either player or forward line coach?

Again, apologies if this has already been discussed.

 

[Bluelegs]

As far as I know he’s UFA, doesn’t that mean no compensation?

Nah we still get compo

 

[Johnny Karate]

Nah we still get compo

Pretty stupid system imv

 

[mrmonkey]

Doesn't compensation depend on what you bring in?

 

[BaliDemon]

Agree on Hawthorn’s list build. Interestingly, Weddle, Sicily, Jiath, Hardwick, Day, Newcombe, Reeves, Moore, Nash, Worpel and Lewis were all picked from mid first round to the arse of the draft. Amon, Scrimshaw and Meek were good trade/fa pickups. They’ll soon add D’Ambrosio which is another good targeted piece of recruiting.

I agree that pointy end draft picks in Macdonald, Ward and Mackenzie look good and a couple of superstars recruited at the top of the draft probably secures their next flag. However, the bulk of their list build has been pretty spare parts.

If we had the levels of recruiting in that first par, we probably have the best list in the comp.

There’s no doubt that Hawthorn’s recruiters are better than ours. Staggering the number of quality players they find from the 2nd round of the draft right through to rookie picks. Very good players, developed very well. Even a few first 22 key position players that were taken outside the top 40 picks (ie Mitch Lewis).

That’s where the best talent spotters earn their money. First rounders are pretty much 90% agreed upon year on year, with only slight variations in who each club ranks 1 - 20.

 

[Bluelegs]

Doesn't compensation depend on what you bring in?

I remember something like this but not sure if its still a thing.

 

[I Love Lamb]

Doesn't compensation depend on what you bring in?

We arnt bringing in shit when it comes to FAs as per standard so that might help.

Even Pies are linked to more than us and haven’t even wrapped up yet.

 

[Scythe]

Doesn't compensation depend on what you bring in?

Only if you bring in another FA, which is doesn't appear that we're doing. Contracted/uncontracted players that you bring in don't affect your own FA compo

 

[Demon 16]

I would have thought we are a chance for end of second round for Jordon.

Add a pick around 25-30 for Grundy and we surely try to move our second round bunch up as high as possible.

 

[Deelighted]

I think end of second is about the best we can hope for with Jordon, there's no way he's receiving big money offers even though there's a few suitors.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Jacob Edwards from North?