List Mgmt. 2023 Draft/Trade/FA thread

[Scythe]

Seems a good time to pin this:


OOC players:

• Michael Hibberd (retired)
• Deakyn Smith (delisted)
• Andy Moniz-Wakefield
• Jake Melksham (delisted, will be re-drafted as a rookie)
• Luke Dunstan (retired)
• James Jordon (signed with Sydney as a Free Agent)
• Kye Turner (delisted)

Traded out:

• James Harmes (Bulldogs)
• Brodie Grundy (Sydney)

Traded in:

• Tom Fullarton (Brisbane)
• Jack Billings (St Kilda)
• Shane McAdam (Adelaide)

Drafted:

• Caleb Windsor (Pick 7)
• Koltyn Tholstrup (Pick 13)
• Kynan Brown (Rookie)

 

[Lord Nev]

I was interested if Jordon was eligible for compo.

Turns out it’s only for 8+ year free agents. It’s set out in 17.6(a): https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...nded-AFL-Rules-effective-28-February-2023.pdf

Can you point out where it says that? I can't see it there.

17.6 Compensation
(a) Where in a particular year one or more Free Agent(s) under Rule 17.1(a) and/or
Restricted Free Agent(s) move from a Club’s Playing List (the first mentioned
Club) to the Playing List of one or more other Clubs pursuant to the operation of
Rule 17.4 or 17.5, the first mentioned Club may be entitled to a compensatory
selection(s) in the next occurring National Draft Selection Meeting as follows:
(i) any compensatory selection(s) shall be allocated in accordance with
guidelines determined by the AFL;
(ii) National Draft Selections will be allocated to one of five places:
(A) First round;
(B) End of First Round;
(C) Second Round;
(D) End of Second Round;
(E) Third Round;
(iii) a National Draft Selection allocated under Rule 17.6(a)(ii)(A), (C) or (E)
shall be taken by the Club immediately after the Club’s selection in that
Round (as determined by Rule 6.2(b))

 

[Demon 16]

Money, money, money: Why the Grundy poker game is heating up

As Brodie Grundy’s pending move to Sydney draws closer, there remains one small but significant hurdle that all parties need to jump: Money.

www.theage.com.au

Lol so Collingwood are waiting for Grundy to get traded and are then going to try and reneg on their part of the deal. Pretty bold.

Pretty scummy effort from the Pies really.

 

[Demon 16]

I was interested if Jordon was eligible for compo.

Turns out it’s only for 8+ year free agents. It’s set out in 17.6(a): https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...nded-AFL-Rules-effective-28-February-2023.pdf

That would be surprising. I thought one of the formulas included their age - the younger, the higher compo.

 

[Suma Magic]

Can you point out where it says that? I can't see it there.

17.6 Compensation
(a) Where in a particular year one or more Free Agent(s) under Rule 17.1(a) and/or
Restricted Free Agent(s) move from a Club’s Playing List (the first mentioned
Club) to the Playing List of one or more other Clubs pursuant to the operation of
Rule 17.4 or 17.5, the first mentioned Club may be entitled to a compensatory
selection(s) in the next occurring National Draft Selection Meeting as follows:
(i) any compensatory selection(s) shall be allocated in accordance with
guidelines determined by the AFL;
(ii) National Draft Selections will be allocated to one of five places:
(A) First round;
(B) End of First Round;
(C) Second Round;
(D) End of Second Round;
(E) Third Round;
(iii) a National Draft Selection allocated under Rule 17.6(a)(ii)(A), (C) or (E)
shall be taken by the Club immediately after the Club’s selection in that
Round (as determined by Rule 6.2(b))

It says it has to be under 17.1 or an RFA. He doesn’t fall under 17.1.

 

[Crusty Demon]

That would be surprising. I thought one of the formulas included their age - the younger, the higher compo.

I didn't think we were getting compo for JJ because we delisted him a few years ago.

 

[Bluelegs]

It says it has to be under 17.1 or an RFA. He doesn’t fall under 17.1.


View attachment 1816067

Unrestricted Free Agents have gotten compo before though. Brendon Goddard netted pick 13.

 

[Suma Magic]

Unrestricted Free Agents have gotten compo before though. Brendon Goddard netted pick 13.

He had done his 8 years so he fell under 17.1 which is required to trigger compo.

 

[Lord Nev]

It says it has to be under 17.1 or an RFA. He doesn’t fall under 17.1.


View attachment 1816067

I would think as a previously delisted free agent then he comes under section 17.1 (b).

 

[Suma Magic]

I would think as a previously delisted free agent then he comes under section 17.1 (b).

Yes. And it has to come under 17.1 (a).

But I’ve just found out that Chol got compo a couple of years ago, despite not being there 8 years. So the afl have set a precedent of not adhering to their own rules, so hopefully for your sake that means that jordon triggers compo.

 

[Bluelegs]

Yes. And it has to come under 17.1 (a).

But I’ve just found out that Chol got compo a couple of years ago, despite not being there 8 years. So the afl have set a precedent of not adhering to their own rules, so hopefully for your sake that means that jordon triggers compo.

Sounds like something the AFL would do.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Its ****ing ridiculous , so many different rules. What an absolute mess the AFL has made here

Need to nuke the entire system and start again.

 

[Suma Magic]

This clarifies that he should be sweet.

AFL clarifies free agency compensation situation

The AFL has clarified its rules surrounding compensation for clubs affected by recent changes to free agency rules.

amp.theage.com.au

Sorry for the false-ish info! Have a good trade period.

 

[Bluelegs]

This clarifies that he should be sweet.

AFL clarifies free agency compensation situation

The AFL has clarified its rules surrounding compensation for clubs affected by recent changes to free agency rules.

amp.theage.com.au

Sorry for the false-ish info! Have a good trade period.

Pick 14 incoming

 

[Suma Magic]

Pick 14 incoming

MINIMUM!

 

[I Love Lamb]

Jordan would’ve got 150k at 17 other clubs

He may get 800k at Syd if Syd/Dees do a rort using Grundy

Little convenient that it’s the club of choice.

 

[Bluelegs]

Its ******* ridiculous , so many different rules. What an absolute mess the AFL has made here

Need to nuke the entire system and start again.

Need to be a bloody physicist to understand the AFL's recruiting system.

 

[Bluelegs]

Jordan would’ve got 150k at 17 other clubs

He may get 800k at Syd if Syd/Dees do a rort using Grundy

Little convenient that it’s the club of choice.

Why on earth would Sydney ruin their own salary cap just to save themselves a second round pick?

 

[Lord Nev]

This clarifies that he should be sweet.

AFL clarifies free agency compensation situation

The AFL has clarified its rules surrounding compensation for clubs affected by recent changes to free agency rules.

amp.theage.com.au

Sorry for the false-ish info! Have a good trade period.

Pretty poor by the AFL that they didn't clarify it properly in their own 2023 rules book given that article is from 2019. Reckon you had it read right according to their rules. What a mess.

 

[Suma Magic]

While I’m here, this article suggests that 22 year olds and 25 years olds are treated the same when calculating compo:

“
■The key to the formula is a ranking system, in which every player in the AFL aged 25 or older is placed in order, based on the size of their (guaranteed) contract.

The highest-paid players are ranked at 100 points, the lowest at 0.

The AFL then allocates up to 12 additional points for a player’s age. At 25 (as of October 31), a player receives the maximum of 12 points, a 26-year-old earns another 10 points, 27-year-olds gain another 8, 28 brings 6 and so forth, with a 30-year-old worth just 2 extra points.”

The AFL's secret formula for free agency compensation

Length of contract is largely irrelevant, but a one-year age gap can make a big difference.

amp.theage.com.au

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Need to be a bloody physisist to understand the AFL's recruiting system.

Yeah, ive honestly given up trying to understand. Shouldn't be this hard.

 

[Bluelegs]

While I’m here, this article suggests that 22 year olds and 25 years olds are treated the same when calculating compo:

“
■The key to the formula is a ranking system, in which every player in the AFL aged 25 or older is placed in order, based on the size of their (guaranteed) contract.

The highest-paid players are ranked at 100 points, the lowest at 0.

The AFL then allocates up to 12 additional points for a player’s age. At 25 (as of October 31), a player receives the maximum of 12 points, a 26-year-old earns another 10 points, 27-year-olds gain another 8, 28 brings 6 and so forth, with a 30-year-old worth just 2 extra points.”

The AFL's secret formula for free agency compensation

Length of contract is largely irrelevant, but a one-year age gap can make a big difference.

amp.theage.com.au

Still don't get why the AFL are trying to keep this formula a secret. Clubs just guestimated it and have been rorting it for years anyway.

 

[Suma Magic]

Still don't get why the AFL are trying to keep this formula a secret. Clubs just guestimated it and have been rorting it for years anyway.

The whole system is pretty shit.

 

[TheBoss]

Doubt other clubs would table the same money to the same players firstly

1. Most clubs have different needs at different times
2. Clubs are geographically spread so living in Melb might appeal more
3. We have * all tall forwards for them to contend with - diff scenario to sitting behind a 6x AA with Max. Any tall forward would be competing with our geriatrics
4. Could be mates with MfC players (Eg Henry)
5. We are in our window (where others with cap space may not be)


Plus once again, other players couldn’t give a s**t if Grundy was played in the 2s, half of every bloody list plays in the 2s each week.

Frampton has been in the 2s, guess no one should move to Collingwood then, Lyons has been in the 2s, guess no one should move to Brisbane either.

I would argue clubs like GWS or Port who play there captains in the 2s is worst optics.

People need to build a bridge and stop getting sucked into the media garbage about this. Grundy signed a contract thinking he could play the Jackson role and was s**t at it so got dropped and he is being moved on, MFC owe him nothing.

My point was the treatment of Grundy adversely impacts how the club is viewed by established players. Your assertion that everything is hunky dory because Collingwood got a fringe player in Frampton (24 games in 8 years before Collingwood) is a reach.

Collingwood recruited well last year, but lets be real. Tom Mitchell was given a pat on the ass as he was pushed out the door because he didn't fit Hawthorn's timeline. Bobby Hill was a fringe player who came good. And they had to overpay for a homesick McStay. It was not as if they had quality players requesting a move there, such as Dunkley or (the corpse of) Gunston who were available.

"4. Could be mates with MfC players (Eg Henry)"

LOL! Henry having mates here was not enough for Melbourne to even get on his shortlist.

Go look at my post history; I was against the Grundy trade. But in fairness, Grundy lived up to his end of the bargain.

The club made a massive misstep by having Simple Simon negging him during press conferences. If you were a player with other options, why would you want to come to a club that will have a coach that will be outwardly hostile when things are not going as planned and is actively sabotaging your future prospects?

The way the club has handled this in the media symptomatic of other issues such as the players reportedly only putting in minimum hours. Being openly disrespectul to players is terrible leadership, and poor leadership does not foster an environment where players will be dedicated or hardworking.

Player agents have long memories, and if you have a fiduciary duty to your client you would not be supporting them to move to Melbourne unless they are the port of last resort.

If you have a reputation of treating players like shit then your limiting your recruitment pool to the draft, misfits from other clubs or paying overs. This is why we have only been linked to battlers like McAdam; a fringe player that we had to offer a third year to entice him.

 

[Suma Magic]

Sorry for more intrusion, was just thinking how the Grundy and jordon deals would work in a theoretical/rational world.

• Swans decide jordon contract offer.
• dees find out what the contract offer will deliver in compo, and how far off the next band etc
• swans and dees agree to a suitable Grundy deal, assuming dees pay nothing and swans give up a pick.

So then say the offer is 50k per year off a higher compo band. The dees would then say to the swans that they would split the diff between what the compo would have been and could be with the swans, if the swans want to pay more.

Demons would also have the option of indirectly paying jordon more, by contributing to grundy’s salary. There would be limits though. I dont think the swans would want jordon on the 800k needed for band 1.


In reality I think the afl will look to stop anything other than minor rorting though.

 

[I Love Lamb]

Why on earth would Sydney ruin their own salary cap just to save themselves a second round pick?

Would be us, we had planned to use the money for Grundy anyway, may as well turn it into pick 14