List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading (Part 2)

[PeterSalt]

Do you have a link to the article? I can't find anything on Google or the AFL website. Not doubting you, just trying to find the article you referenced.

From the article below:

"For instance, it would have allowed Adelaide to list one of Rory Sloane or Taylor Walker as a veteran for 2024 and opened up another spot on their primary list. The idea was designed to keep veterans in the game without sacrificing a list spot that a youngster may have taken, with the veteran’s full payments still counted in the salary cap."

Roos target pick one, Dee to go on, big Dog to stay

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

There's a link in the post above

 

[PeterSalt]

That doesn't make sense.

Clubs ARE offering McKay $800k and they didn't offer it to Crouch.

They might be writing by but they're genuinely doing it.

Crouch's contract was reported to have a number of extremely easy to trigger incentive bonus's that would take his income over the band 1 threshold .. yet aren't considered when applying the AFL's formula for compensation.

Lethlean, a commercial solicitor, who orchestrated the contract had gone to St Kilda as GM of Football straight from AFL house as GM of Football Operations and was familiar with the structure of player contracts and probably the AFL's implementation of FA compensation.

When the idea was floated of AFC taking Dunston as move to free up St Kilda's TPP, it was immediately shut down. Though in essence they would/should've been seperate deals.

There were also rumours the AFL shut down a possible move of Crouch to GCS the previous year. Based on behavioural issues.

Crouch and Stengle being caught with a bag of cocaine in the early of the morning in the CBD took away any potential leverage the club had. It must have been an extremely open secret that the club wanted Crouch gone and had no intention of either matching or trying to force a trade.

And my guess is that St Kilda would've walked away if they were forced into a trade. And it would've been 1 of the few times the media would've supported them.

It's kinda hard not to believe that there was at least some level of collusion

 

[DJ75]

Rachele was the best player in the U16s as a mid and Pedlar was drafted as a mid, seems a bit silly to just state with certainty neither of them will end up there.

Nothing I've seen so far suggests they have the engine for a full time mid role.

 

[Gtowncrow]

They are saying Crouch isn't worth $800k
But then that spud McKay is worth $800k to get Norf a 1st round pick
I know where I would prefer to spend my $800k and it isn't with McKay

If McKay is worth $800k, Harris Andrews must be worth $2.4m
He's three times the player.

...or more

 

[DJ75]

Don't fully agree with this, I think both Luke Pedlar and Josh Rachele will be genuine mid/forwards when they build up their endurance to the standards required and Rankine most likely more the forward/mid of the three.

I see them both as part timers.
Rachele might become a mid/fwd. Pedlar more a fwd/mid. I can't see either replacing Laird as a full time mid.

 

[Geoffa32]

That doesn't make sense.

Clubs ARE offering McKay $800k and they didn't offer it to Crouch.

They might be writing by but they're genuinely doing it.

Doubt anyone is offering McKay $800k.


Media assuming it because Norf will get pick 3 for him.

AFL using their discretion in making the decision to gift Norf pick 3 compo.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DJ75]

Crouch's contract was reported to have a number of extremely easy to trigger incentive bonus's that would take his income over the band 1 threshold .. yet aren't considered when applying the AFL's formula for compensation.

Lethlean, a commercial solicitor, who orchestrated the contract had gone to St Kilda as GM of Football straight from AFL house as GM of Football Operations and was familiar with the structure of player contracts and probably the AFL's implementation of FA compensation.

When the idea was floated of AFC taking Dunston as move to free up St Kilda's TPP, it was immediately shut down. Though in essence they would/should've been seperate deals.

There were also rumours the AFL shut down a possible move of Crouch to GCS the previous year. Based on behavioural issues.

Crouch and Stengle being caught with a bag of cocaine in the early of the morning in the CBD took away any potential leverage the club had. It must have been an extremely open secret that the club wanted Crouch gone and had no intention of either matching or trying to force a trade.

And my guess is that St Kilda would've walked away if they were forced into a trade. And it would've been 1 of the few times the media would've supported them.

It's kinda hard not to believe that there was at least some level of collusion

The incentive bit is such a scam.
The AFL would have heard the Vic media crying and decided we can't possibly get that level of compensation. Crouch would have had an offer on the table though.
What to do?
Reduce the base salary and add in incentives. Run under x in preseason time trial? $25k. Play 1 game? $50k! Play 10? $100k. etc... Brad would have have been paid the exact same amount as his original offer, but it meant we got crappier compensation.

There is nothing this hick league doesn't corrupt to get the outcomes they want.

if Kim Jong Un bought the AFL it would be less corrupt.

 

[DJ75]

This may be of note to usView attachment 1814355

I'd be interested - if GWS throw something additional in...

 

[Crow till I die]

Doubt anyone is offering McKay $800k.


Media assuming it because Norf will get pick 3 for him.

AFL using their discretion in making the decision to gift Norf pick 3 compo.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

It would not shock me to learn that the AFL part paid McKay's contract at Essendon off the books to ensure band 1 compo. Thats how highly i rate the integrity of this corrupt organisation

 

[Scorpus]

They are saying Crouch isn't worth $800k
But then that spud McKay is worth $800k to get Norf a 1st round pick
I know where I would prefer to spend my $800k and it isn't with McKay

A lot of the angst comes from Adelaide supporters massively overrating Brad Crouch and the market for a player like Crouch

The market for key defenders is dire which is why McKay is being offered more money than a relatively easy to obtain midfielder like Crouch

 

[Crow till I die]

I'd be interested - if GWS throw something additional in...

Apparently not and they would be expecting a pick for him...so not sure how it even gets off the ground

 

[Crows I Am]

Neither Rachele nor Pedlar are going to be full time mids. No chance. They are pinch hitters only. Between them two and Rankine, you can have one full time mid position.

I see Rachele and Pedlar both increasing their midfield time over the next couple of years. But I still see them both as still rotating forward. I could see them both eventually splitting their time 60% midfield/40% forward.

I think our midfield group will be quite large and we will rotate quite a few through there. Dawson, Laird, Pedlar, Rachele and Soligo will be the main players, with Rankine and Keays going in for bursts.

 

[Mostyn]

Doubt anyone is offering McKay $800k.


Media assuming it because Norf will get pick 3 for him.

AFL using their discretion in making the decision to gift Norf pick 3 compo.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

No, the media is assuming it because McKay's management is leaking a blow by blow account of who's interested and what they're offering.

The AFL give way less of a sh*t - North Melbourne is not a club they care that much about.

 

[Mostyn]

Crouch's contract was reported to have a number of extremely easy to trigger incentive bonus's that would take his income over the band 1 threshold .. yet aren't considered when applying the AFL's formula for compensation.

Lethlean, a commercial solicitor, who orchestrated the contract had gone to St Kilda as GM of Football straight from AFL house as GM of Football Operations and was familiar with the structure of player contracts and probably the AFL's implementation of FA compensation.

When the idea was floated of AFC taking Dunston as move to free up St Kilda's TPP, it was immediately shut down. Though in essence they would/should've been seperate deals.

There were also rumours the AFL shut down a possible move of Crouch to GCS the previous year. Based on behavioural issues.

Crouch and Stengle being caught with a bag of cocaine in the early of the morning in the CBD took away any potential leverage the club had. It must have been an extremely open secret that the club wanted Crouch gone and had no intention of either matching or trying to force a trade.

And my guess is that St Kilda would've walked away if they were forced into a trade. And it would've been 1 of the few times the media would've supported them.

It's kinda hard not to believe that there was at least some level of collusion

Collusion between who?

The AFL would much rather we were successful than St Kilda. We're worth far more to their bottom line. But they couldn't invent a market that wasn't there.

Crouch wanted less money but longer for the same reasons no one wanted to give it to him.

 

[Mostyn]

It would not shock me to learn that the AFL part paid McKay's contract at Essendon off the books to ensure band 1 compo. Thats how highly i rate the integrity of this corrupt organisation

That makes absolutely zero sense.

 

[Crow till I die]

That makes absolutely zero sense.

lol

 

[PeterSalt]

Collusion between who?

The AFL would much rather we were successful than St Kilda. We're worth far more to their bottom line. But they couldn't invent a market that wasn't there.

Crouch wanted less money but longer for the same reasons no one wanted to give it to him.

Lethlean and the AFL. I not saying it happened. Just that it seems a bit on the nose

Exactly, we don't need to be propped up financially.

Remember the AFL went affer Dean Bailey and not Schwab because Schwab's name was on Melbourne's poker machine licenses and they feared chasing him could jeopardise that income

Look I never believed Crouch was worth pick 2. Had we finished mid table though I doubt there would've been much of a fuss.

 

[Golumless]

I see them both as part timers.
Rachele might become a mid/fwd. Pedlar more a fwd/mid. I can't see either replacing Laird as a full time mid.

For 2024, sure.

That said, it's pretty likely they'll develop the engine around 2025--27 if they stay healthy.

 

[jackster83]

Collusion between who?

The AFL would much rather we were successful than St Kilda. We're worth far more to their bottom line. But they couldn't invent a market that wasn't there.

Crouch wanted less money but longer for the same reasons no one wanted to give it to him.

We're on the bottom rung of importance to the AFL, along with St Kilda, Port, Fremantle and a couple of others. Middling clubs with little commercial relevance or influence to the league, not located in a priority or growth market, and not reliant on AFL handouts to be competitive.

 

[aabp1978]

We're on the bottom rung of importance to the AFL, along with St Kilda, Port, Fremantle and a couple of others. Middling clubs with little commercial relevance or influence to the league, not located in a priority or growth market, and not reliant on AFL handouts to be competitive.

Agree..but if we are talking about not reliant on AFL handouts then you need to delete St Kilda and Port from the list...would put us into a rather unique group with Freo and perhaps Hawthorn based on the below (Richmond, Geelong and Essendon all receive about the same amount as us from the AFL, but carry a lot more weight than we do..)

How much funding does each team receive from the AFL?

The 2023 funding ladder has been revealed.

www.zerohanger.com

 

[DJ75]

Apparently not and they would be expecting a pick for him...so not sure how it even gets off the ground

Then...

If they want to lose his salary, sure. He's handy depth, but I'd like the trade to include something for us that helps us as a thanks for taking the salary off their books.

 

[Runnin Blue]

The AFL would much rather we were successful than St Kilda.

Except every piece of evidence we see year in and year out absolutely disputes this statement.

They literally GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to hinder us and as long as our club’s leaders stay quiet like the good little mice that they are, it will continue.

 

[LoBu]

It's not the AFL's duty to "decide" what a player should get paid. If the Saints wanted to pay him that then that's their god damn business.

But again this all boils down to the AFL finding every avenue possible to stop us going into the draft with pick 1 and 2.

Yea, if it's also costing a 2 year extension for Haynes I'd be skipping that.

What about if Haynes came with pick 5 to take the million dollars + this year, we then smooth it over the 2-year extension?

 

[Amacca 23]

No, the media is assuming it because McKay's management is leaking a blow by blow account of who's interested and what they're offering.

The AFL give way less of a sh*t - North Melbourne is not a club they care that much about.

So doodee is 750k a year and pick 10 ?

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[LoBu]

Can say the same thing for any draftee tbh

Looks just naturally gifted, the lesser informed fan base would melt taking another short guy

Fair enough, we should take best available.

I don't mind the thought that a highly skilled midfield is better than a 192cm midfielder of lesser skill, of course we want a Bont but if we had a ruck (TT) who could get the ball to the highly skilled (shorter) midfielders' advantage, the impact over the season exactly what we want.

It is just harder for really small guy, which is why it's so rare.

I get that Watson is a forward, but if the choice was between Watson or a forward mid such as Nate Caddy, who could end up in the mid, it's not the easiest choice to make. Duursma would be an easier choice if available.

 

[Thunderstruck]

Lot of water to go under that bridge re Draper, he's just one of at least a dozen midfielders that look potential A graders in next year's draft. Just some names for you Finn O'Sullivan, Levi Ashcroft, Sam Lalor, Phoenix Hargrave, Josh Smillie, Jagga Smith, Christian Moreas, Tobie Travalgia, Zak Johnson, Kade Herbert, Ollie Hannaford and no doubt I've probably missed some off the bat especially not getting to see much WA form. Then there's NSW and Qld Academy players like Leonardo Lombardi and Sam Marshall etc.



All have shown plenty this year in what looks to be a real mids draft.

Agree, next years draft is one I have been looking forward to for a while. I really hope we can arm ourselves with some good picks.