List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Scham]

Get a goalscoring small forward fFS!!!!

 

[Joao]

I hope we don't trade our F1 or F2 this trade period. Don't think I could deal with another **** season if we don't even have the draft to look forward to.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I hope we don't trade our F1 or F2 this trade period. Don't think I could deal with another **** season if we don't even have the draft to look forward to.

Haha. I was thinking of us trading our f1 for 2 average forwards.

When was the last year we had a f1, f2 coming out of trade week.

 

[Joao]

Haha. I was thinking of us trading our f1 for 2 average forwards.

When was the last year we had a f1, f2 coming out of trade week.

Probably the last season where you couldn't trade them if I had to guess. Reckon we've traded F2 every year or at least it feels like it.

 

[Dockeroo]

Brodie 3 year deal, then dropped.
Walters 2 year deal at 33, and he is slowing quickly.
Bring Omeara in, even though we had no spot for him and it hurts game time of others e.g. Erasmus.
Trade two firsts and a 2nd for Jackson
Trade pick 5,6 who became rozzee and king for Sturt , Hogan and Lobb
Trade pick 21 for Wilson during a rebuild.
Banfield 2 year contract.

We make so many short team decisions, like all we care about is improving our ladder position next year but it kills us long term every time.

I wish we would think long term. I look at the crows and them dropping players not because it helps them now, but because it helps them in 3 and 4 years with envy.

I think we are 3 a graders short of best 22, and we had not funked up the rebuild we would be there

I don’t fully agree with your position on this issue but I’m 70% in agreement.
I got a bit nervous earlier this week when I was hearing about all these fringe guys getting extended before the end of the season such as worner and Kuek.
Despite what the posters in here might think, the reality is that these guys are complete no-names in AFL terms and are highly unlikely to solve the problems we saw yesterday.
The issue is what is the long term strategy with each player on the list?
List spots are the most undervalued commodity in AFL clubs by far. Signing these peel players up long term is reducing our available list spots and chances to be bold and creative this off season.
I think everybody can admit that we NEED more talent on this list. Particularly forwards. So therefore any deadwood needs to be cleaned out at the end of the year.
I’m looking at the list as we sit here and these are the remaining uncontracted players for next season:

Eric Benning
Travis Colyer
Joel Hamling
Nathan Wilson
Josh Treacy
Sam Sturt
Liam Henry
Liam Reidy
Ethan Stanley
Conrad Williams
SEBIT Kuek (one year deal in the pipeline according to reports)

We have 4 ND picks at present.
How are we going to bring in enough new talent?? Is a big fish that we don’t know about yet going to ask to leave?

I can only see Benning, Colyer, Hamling and Wilson going for certain. Possibly Reidy too from the Rookie list if they don’t think he’s good enough to play in case of emergency.

Treacy will stay, probably on a 2 year or more deal. I’m fine with that he’s a good young improving player.

I’m starting to think both of Sturt and Henry will be traded or delisted. Even though Sturt in particular is starting to show something promising the last couple of weeks. I think he may be a victim of circumstance.

Williams is Cat B so kinda doesn’t matter with him, it has no impact on other picks. Stanley will surely get another year unless he’s absolutely useless at peel for the remainder of this season.
We are a bottom 8 list now and need to be turning over at least 8 players IMO.

This is where having plodders like Banfield and Hughes on multi year deals is detrimental. Even worse, as you said, we have Will Brodie signed till 2026 and stuck at peel on what is surely at least $450k minimum per annum. Is he going to be the Wafls highest paid player for the next 3 years or what?
There is already no room for Fyfe, Bradshaw, Serong, JOM, MJ and Ras all in the same team, let alone Brodie.

What is the rush to sign Kuek now? He’s a MSD rookie. No one’s coming in to grab him from us. Where do they see him playing in 2024 or 2025 in the AFL side? Is he taking Treacys place? I’m pretty sure he’s not. He’s not taking the spot Amiss or Jackson clearly, so I can’t see him being anywhere other than Peel next year.
Why not wait till the end of the year and then reassess and commit or delist the likes of Kuek?
I already have a bad feeling about the Worner 2-year deal. I swear, if he turns out to be another Giro spending 2 years too long on our list I’m actually done.

I would say that almost everyone on this board overrates the quality of this list.

Another point - if Stanley is not showing anything between now and end of the season, he should be cut. This idea that we have to be “good blokes” and give him another year even if deep down the club do not think he is good enough is bullshit.
Ruthless organisations win flags, while by contrast, good bloke management gets you an 11th - 14th place finish each year (I.e complete oblivion).

 

[freo_leo29]

I don’t fully agree with your position on this issue but I’m 70% in agreement.
I got a bit nervous earlier this week when I was hearing about all these fringe guys getting extended before the end of the season such as worner and Kuek.
Despite what the posters in here might think, the reality is that these guys are complete no-names in AFL terms and are highly unlikely to solve the problems we saw yesterday.
The issue is what is the long term strategy with each player on the list?
List spots are the most undervalued commodity in AFL clubs by far. Signing these peel players up long term is reducing our available list spots and chances to be bold and creative this off season.
I think everybody can admit that we NEED more talent on this list. Particularly forwards. So therefore any deadwood needs to be cleaned out at the end of the year.
I’m looking at the list as we sit here and these are the remaining uncontracted players for next season:

Eric Benning
Travis Colyer
Joel Hamling
Nathan Wilson
Josh Treacy
Sam Sturt
Liam Henry
Liam Reidy
Ethan Stanley
Conrad Williams
SEBIT Kuek (one year deal in the pipeline according to reports)

We have 4 ND picks at present.
How are we going to bring in enough new talent?? Is a big fish that we don’t know about yet going to ask to leave?

I can only see Benning, Colyer, Hamling and Wilson going for certain. Possibly Reidy too from the Rookie list if they don’t think he’s good enough to play in case of emergency.

Treacy will stay, probably on a 2 year or more deal. I’m fine with that he’s a good young improving player.

I’m starting to think both of Sturt and Henry will be traded or delisted. Even though Sturt in particular is starting to show something promising the last couple of weeks. I think he may be a victim of circumstance.

Williams is Cat B so kinda doesn’t matter with him, it has no impact on other picks. Stanley will surely get another year unless he’s absolutely useless at peel for the remainder of this season.
We are a bottom 8 list now and need to be turning over at least 8 players IMO.

This is where having plodders like Banfield and Hughes on multi year deals is detrimental. Even worse, as you said, we have Will Brodie signed till 2026 and stuck at peel on what is surely at least $450k minimum per annum. Is he going to be the Wafls highest paid player for the next 3 years or what?
There is already no room for Fyfe, Bradshaw, Serong, JOM, MJ and Ras all in the same team, let alone Brodie.

What is the rush to sign Kuek now? He’s a MSD rookie. No one’s coming in to grab him from us. Where do they see him playing in 2024 or 2025 in the AFL side? Is he taking Treacys place? I’m pretty sure he’s not. He’s not taking the spot Amiss or Jackson clearly, so I can’t see him being anywhere other than Peel next year.
Why not wait till the end of the year and then reassess and commit or delist the likes of Kuek?
I already have a bad feeling about the Worner 2-year deal. I swear, if he turns out to be another Giro spending 2 years too long on our list I’m actually done.

I would say that almost everyone on this board overrates the quality of this list.

Another point - if Stanley is not showing anything between now and end of the season, he should be cut. This idea that we have to be “good blokes” and give him another year even if deep down the club do not think he is good enough is bullshit.
Ruthless organisations win flags, while by contrast, good bloke management gets you an 11th - 14th place finish each year (I.e complete oblivion).

I think this is underrating the list tbh

A turnover of 8? we have the talent on our list already, we should be picking up maybe 3 and a rookie this year, we don't have much draft capital and the list is nearing the end of its rebuild tbh

I don't mind giving the rookies a bit longer, they're both showing something and the rookie list is fine for project players

Cutting Stanley after 6 months would be mind boggling unless he is so far below the level (he isn't, he has been playing VFL all year), he is a longer term player, skinny winger

 

[Dockeroo]

I think this is underrating the list tbh

A turnover of 8? we have the talent on our list already, we should be picking up maybe 3 and a rookie this year, we don't have much draft capital and the list is nearing the end of its rebuild tbh

I don't mind giving the rookies a bit longer, they're both showing something and the rookie list is fine for project players

Cutting Stanley after 6 months would be mind boggling unless he is so far below the level (he isn't, he has been playing VFL all year), he is a longer term player, skinny winger

If you think we have the talent on the list already I’ve got some magic beans to sell.
This is my entire point. We are sitting in the bottom 6 of the competition and acting like “nah, we got heaps of talent. Don’t stress about new players”

Last years premiers turned over 9 players from their list in the off season. They had a hell of a lot more talent than we do yet were still not afraid to cut deep.
Sydney, a youngish list, turned over 8 guys in the off season.
Collingwood - 9 players.

The lowest list turnover in the AFL last season was Adelaide crows with 6 changes in their playing list to 2023.

I don’t believe a single AFL club has had less than 6 changes on their playing list in recent times.

The forwards currently on the list as a whole, are NOWHERE near the required level to win a premiership. Light years off it. We would need to dominate the midfield to a point rarely ever seen in AFL footy to win a flag with this forward unit. We haven’t got a single top quality AFL Goal kicking midfielder either to make things worse.

 

[freo_leo29]

If you think we have the talent on the list already I’ve got some magic beans to sell.
This is my entire point. We are sitting in the bottom 6 of the competition and acting like “nah, we got heaps of talent. Don’t stress about new players”

Last years premiers turned over 9 players from their list in the off season. They had a hell of a lot more talent than we do yet were still not afraid to cut deep.
Sydney, a youngish list, turned over 8 guys in the off season.
Collingwood - 9 players.

The lowest list turnover in the AFL last season was Adelaide crows with 6 changes in their playing list to 2023.

I don’t believe a single AFL club has had less than 6 changes on their playing list in recent times.

The forwards currently on the list as a whole, are NOWHERE near the required level to win a premiership. Light years off it. We would need to dominate the midfield to a point rarely ever seen in AFL footy to win a flag with this forward unit. We haven’t got a single top quality AFL Goal kicking midfielder either to make things worse.

I'd argue the team is severely out of form and we are underachieving, not that the list is in a bad place

Pies had the luxury of trading out a million in cap space from a player that wasn't best 22 last year in order to plug some holes in their list, can't compare their off season to ours tbh

Sydney cut hard like we did last year, they have also fallen off like we did, they've got some young key forwards like us that will take time but they have most of the talent on their list, Sydney will also cut more than most teams as they have academy players coming in every season

You have to remember that we have cut hard, a really significant amount of changes over the past 8 years, our list was in a hole and we have had to reshape it completely, now we have a shit tonne of young players that need time, we had some faults along the way that dragged out the changes but now we are nearing the end of it, what we really need is to find form and keep developing some of our young talent

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The forwards currently on the list as a whole, are NOWHERE near the required level to win a premiership. Light years off it. We would need to dominate the midfield to a point rarely ever seen in AFL footy to win a flag with this forward unit. We haven’t got a single top quality AFL Goal kicking midfielder either to make things worse.

I think that's extremely hyperbolic and it needs maybe one more a-grade player (and time) for it to be elite

 

[go_the_dockers]

I think that's extremely hyperbolic and it needs maybe one more a-grade player (and time) for it to be elite

What position?

I think we need an outside mid and two forwards. Maybe not all A graders, but B + graders players

 

[go_the_dockers]

I don’t fully agree with your position on this issue but I’m 70% in agreement.
I got a bit nervous earlier this week when I was hearing about all these fringe guys getting extended before the end of the season such as worner and Kuek.
Despite what the posters in here might think, the reality is that these guys are complete no-names in AFL terms and are highly unlikely to solve the problems we saw yesterday.
The issue is what is the long term strategy with each player on the list?
List spots are the most undervalued commodity in AFL clubs by far. Signing these peel players up long term is reducing our available list spots and chances to be bold and creative this off season.
I think everybody can admit that we NEED more talent on this list. Particularly forwards. So therefore any deadwood needs to be cleaned out at the end of the year.
I’m looking at the list as we sit here and these are the remaining uncontracted players for next season:

Eric Benning
Travis Colyer
Joel Hamling
Nathan Wilson
Josh Treacy
Sam Sturt
Liam Henry
Liam Reidy
Ethan Stanley
Conrad Williams
SEBIT Kuek (one year deal in the pipeline according to reports)

We have 4 ND picks at present.
How are we going to bring in enough new talent?? Is a big fish that we don’t know about yet going to ask to leave?

I can only see Benning, Colyer, Hamling and Wilson going for certain. Possibly Reidy too from the Rookie list if they don’t think he’s good enough to play in case of emergency.

Treacy will stay, probably on a 2 year or more deal. I’m fine with that he’s a good young improving player.

I’m starting to think both of Sturt and Henry will be traded or delisted. Even though Sturt in particular is starting to show something promising the last couple of weeks. I think he may be a victim of circumstance.

Williams is Cat B so kinda doesn’t matter with him, it has no impact on other picks. Stanley will surely get another year unless he’s absolutely useless at peel for the remainder of this season.
We are a bottom 8 list now and need to be turning over at least 8 players IMO.

This is where having plodders like Banfield and Hughes on multi year deals is detrimental. Even worse, as you said, we have Will Brodie signed till 2026 and stuck at peel on what is surely at least $450k minimum per annum. Is he going to be the Wafls highest paid player for the next 3 years or what?
There is already no room for Fyfe, Bradshaw, Serong, JOM, MJ and Ras all in the same team, let alone Brodie.

What is the rush to sign Kuek now? He’s a MSD rookie. No one’s coming in to grab him from us. Where do they see him playing in 2024 or 2025 in the AFL side? Is he taking Treacys place? I’m pretty sure he’s not. He’s not taking the spot Amiss or Jackson clearly, so I can’t see him being anywhere other than Peel next year.
Why not wait till the end of the year and then reassess and commit or delist the likes of Kuek?
I already have a bad feeling about the Worner 2-year deal. I swear, if he turns out to be another Giro spending 2 years too long on our list I’m actually done.

I would say that almost everyone on this board overrates the quality of this list.

Another point - if Stanley is not showing anything between now and end of the season, he should be cut. This idea that we have to be “good blokes” and give him another year even if deep down the club do not think he is good enough is bullshit.
Ruthless organisations win flags, while by contrast, good bloke management gets you an 11th - 14th place finish each year (I.e complete oblivion).

Those is why signings like Matera, Colyer annoy me. They waste list spaces.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

What position?

I think we need an outside mid and two forwards. Maybe not all A graders, but B + graders players

Talking just forwards. A genuinely dangerous medium or small forward would be mint, forwardline just needs one more player of class.

I'm happy with what I've seen of Erasmus and Johnson to think those two with Brayshaw, Serong, Darcy and Jackson is plenty of midfield talent

 

[s_wd6]

Those is why signings like Matera, Colyer annoy me. They waste list spaces.

There was one pre-season where Matera actually put in effort and he kicked 30 for us. I'm not sure what Colyer has done in his time here, or why we decided to re-sign him

 

[Dockeroo]

I think that's extremely hyperbolic and it needs maybe one more a-grade player (and time) for it to be elite

The only natural goalscorers we have now are amiss and Walters and Sonny is nearly done. Teams like Adelaide who we will likely be competing with in 2026-2029 or so for flags have multiple clutch goalkickers.
This isn’t a knee jerk reaction either to this weekends game.
Players like Switta, Schultz, Frederick Treacy, cannot be relied upon to be clinical from limited chances. You just don’t get the luxury of kicking 1-3 or 1-4 in a Prelim or GF and getting away with it. I had hopes for Sturt but he appears to have a rather shaky set shot routine too and an element of the hips in front of goal. As for Banfield, I mean, he’s nowhere near the required level of forward for a flag contending side.

As you have often remarked on here, when they eagles were at their best they had guys like Kennedy, Darling, Liam Ryan and it felt like they never missed a shot at goal. Clutch players and they won their flag when the chance presented.
I’d be less concerned about our forward line profligacy if we had a goal kicking midfielder like petracca or De Goey for the next 6 or 7 years but I’m not sure that guy is on our list, despite the talent of AB, Caleb, Ras and MJ.
It’s entirely plausible that this project, for all its positives, ends in 2 or 3 painful failures at the prelim or even GF stage over the next few years where we have enough possession to win but burn heaps of chances.
I think we are two high quality AFL forward short. I’m not sure where they come from but we need to get creative.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The only natural goalscorers we have now are amiss and Walters and Sonny is nearly done. Teams like Adelaide who we will likely be competing with in 2026-2029 or so for flags have multiple clutch goalkickers.
This isn’t a knee jerk reaction either to this weekends game.
Players like Switta, Schultz, Frederick Treacy, cannot be relied upon to be clinical from limited chances. You just don’t get the luxury of kicking 1-3 or 1-4 in a Prelim or GF and getting away with it. I had hopes for Sturt but he appears to have a rather shaky set shot routine too and an element of the hips in front of goal. As for Banfield, I mean, he’s nowhere near the required level of forward for a flag contending side.

As you have often remarked on here, when they eagles were at their best they had guys like Kennedy, Darling, Liam Ryan and it felt like they never missed a shot at goal. Clutch players and they won their flag when the chance presented.
I’d be less concerned about our forward line profligacy if we had a goal kicking midfielder like petracca or De Goey for the next 6 or 7 years but I’m not sure that guy is on our list, despite the talent of AB, Caleb, Ras and MJ.
It’s entirely plausible that this project, for all its positives, ends in 2 or 3 painful failures at the prelim or even GF stage over the next few years where we have enough possession to win but burn heaps of chances.
I think we are two high quality AFL forward short. I’m not sure where they come from but we need to get creative.

Some combination Switta, Schultz, Freddy, Sturt (if he comes on) and Treacy is a plenty good enough supporting cast to go with Amiss and another A-grade talent. Adelaide is the exception given what they've put into their forward line and really, Tex is still doing a lot of heavy lifting and I'm not ready to call Rankine clutch or a proven finals performer until I see it. Still goes disappearing a fair bit. One A-grade talent added to a forwardline is a shit load, look at the difference Amiss makes at 19.

 

[Taylor]

Those is why signings like Matera, Colyer annoy me. They waste list spaces.

A player like Matera is actually exactly what we want. Lazy enough to slip late in the draft but talented enough to kick and create goals out of 1/10th of a chance when he puts his head down and works his butt off.

 

[poshman]

Enjoying this discussion. My thoughts:

One more A grader is needed as I project Jackson will be the 35-40 goal a year Mid/Forward/ruck if he can play in the same position he was before Darcy was injured.

That is one on the list already. As much as Darcy hurts us, it hurts us not having Jackson running mid/forward from a match up, strength and talent pov.

That leaves one more - hopefully a small or medium size who is a natural goal kicker. We will need to take a risk and reach for someone. Not usually our style.

 

[Obeanie1]

Posted the same on the Eagles board.

I wonder if Freo and the Eagles will ever get over this self imposed non trading between the two clubs? Now is the time when the clubs are at opposite ends of the 'flag window' where we should be looking at win win scenarios at the trade table.

By refusing to trade the WA clubs are just allowing the East Coast teams one more advantage over us, and a big one.

I know we dont get along as rivals but with all the other advantages the Vics and expansion clubs have over us it isnt very clever that the two clubs basically veto trading between the two WA sides.

 

[arsesmart]

Those is why signings like Matera, Colyer annoy me. They waste list spaces.

For every Matera and Colyer there's a Stuey Dew and Rhys Stanley.

 

[rgauci]

Posted the same on the Eagles board.

I wonder if Freo and the Eagles will ever get over this self imposed non trading between the two clubs? Now is the time when the clubs are at opposite ends of the 'flag window' where we should be looking at win win scenarios at the trade table.

By refusing to trade the WA clubs are just allowing the East Coast teams one more advantage over us, and a big one.

I know we dont get along as rivals but with all the other advantages the Vics and expansion clubs have over us it isnt very clever that the two clubs basically veto tradinging between the two WA sides.

This is quite true, I was talking to my mate, we should look at taking one or two of Liam Ryan, Elliot Yeo and Tim Kelly off your hands. They don’t need to be sitting in a rebuilding side.

 

[Superkoops]

This is quite true, I was talking to my mate, we should look at taking one or two of Liam Ryan, Elliot Yeo and Tim Kelly off your hands. They don’t need to be sitting in a rebuilding side.

I think where things are at it is more that West Coast would like a few of our fringe players. Lloyd Meek comes to mind. West Coast was red hot into him but things went no where. Walls and talk to the hand comes to mind.

I’d consider Yeo if he passes exhaustive medical but no interest in other injury prone front runners - aka Liam Ryan. Tim Kelly has shown no interest in ever coming to Freo so no point going there.

West Coast will be looking at offloading likes of Gaff and Darling. I cannot see anyone showing any interest. Outside that Yeo if medically sound and Barrass will have some currency. Jake Waterman is another one that comes to mind but not really that sure he will help our cause. I’ll let others debate him.

We need to be looking at value add outside mid.

I’m not convinced about Sharpe but his teammate languishing in the reserves (Sam Flanders) had 44 possessions and 2 goals on the weekend. Dylan Stephens is another at Sydney - top end draft pick that struggles to get a game in an area of need for us.

If Tyler Brockman remains out of contract at the end of the year he is a smaller forward / half forward that could add to the front half.

I’d target a medium tall forward with our first pick in the ND.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Talking just forwards. A genuinely dangerous medium or small forward would be mint, forwardline just needs one more player of class.

I'm happy with what I've seen of Erasmus and Johnson to think those two with Brayshaw, Serong, Darcy and Jackson is plenty of midfield talent

I feel an outside mid with class would help so much.
Smith from Geelong would be perfect.

 

[go_the_dockers]

A player like Matera is actually exactly what we want. Lazy enough to slip late in the draft but talented enough to kick and create goals out of 1/10th of a chance when he puts his head down and works his butt off.

Agree to disagree.

Too slow and no right boot.

 

[Joao]

We're going to need to finish bottom 6 twice more after this year if we want a realistic chance of 2 A+ forwards. Sure would be nice though. I think we'd run into cap problems if we had them, tbh.


It's interesting to compare us to the Crows, because you see their wins where they get on top in the middle and belt teams because of the forwards. It looks great and everyone gets excited.

Then you see games where they lose the midfield and they get well beaten. This is what you'd expect when 90% of your top draft picks are in the forwardline. They appear to lack the midfield class to compete consistently away to the best sides.

I don't think it is reasonable to assume that their mids/backs will start producing more consistency as they mature unless you also grant our forwards can do the same. Our forwards have shown they can score heavily when the game is on our terms. Also, our best forward is 19 and theirs is 34 or whatever.


Also, remember there is a salary cap. You can't have all the good players on every line.

 

[Obeanie1]

This is quite true, I was talking to my mate, we should look at taking one or two of Liam Ryan, Elliot Yeo and Tim Kelly off your hands. They don’t need to be sitting in a rebuilding side.

Taking emotion out of the equation players who could assist Freo at this stage of their flag window IMO.

Darling
Waterman
Kelly
Yeo
Barrass
Ryan

Won't get into what they are worth. Some more than others.

Eagles obviously interested in picks or young players. Erasmus the obvious one. Henry maybe. A ruck forward but Freo likely retains any tall forwards.