List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Taylor]

That's one game, he's been bloody good before that.
You've stamped his papers, I get it.
You're wrong

Let's take a look shall we..

Kicking efficiency stat (keep in mind that a kick of 40m+ only needs to not be marked to be considered effective):

Round 23: 42.9% (Loss)
Round 22: 42.9% (Win)
Round 21: 84.6% (Loss)
Round 20: 60% (Win)
Round 19: 60% (Loss)
Round 18: 70% (Loss)
Round 17: 66.7% (Loss)
Round 16: 68.4% (Loss)
Round 15: 68% (Win)
Round 14: 66.7% (Loss)
Round 13: 83.3% (Loss)
Round 12: Bye
Round 11 to 5: Not selected
Round 4: 44.4% (Loss)
Round 3: 0% (Win)
Round 2: 46.2% (Loss)
Round 1: 77.8% (Loss)

If you want to tell a story from that Henry comes in either with a safe mindset to kick long to a contest and then feels emboldended to take the risky kicks, or fatigues and starts missing kicks - leading to him missing more kicks than he hits before being dropped.

Whatever your story is, Henry is due to be dropped this week off the quality of his ball use by foot.

The question to ask is if Henry had been more effective by foot would we have won the game against North at home where we lost by a point and had +15% inside fifties on them despite losing clearances by 50%.

Supporters are fine to be upset if Henry leaves for the big lights of the Victorian footy capital after his performances with ball in hand contributed to us missing finals this season.

BUT, and it's a big BUT. Caleb Serong's ball use by foot was even worse.... but, again, I think inside mids get some leeway there over outside mids.

 

[Docker82]

Although he hasn’t played a game for GC this year. Suspect his papers are already signed. They need to clear space for points for picks.
They have 8 picks they need to clear a lot of players. He was almost gone last year, doesn’t play this year, suspect the deal has already been signed and Freo pick him as a delisted free agent and we do a pick swap with GC.

Gold Coast were running with 38 on the senior list this year. Number of picks before the draft is limited to list spots.

Thinking they'll need to make room for at least five spots to maintain enough points tbh and will probably go with 36 on the senior list next season to help with that.

They'll be trading or delisting at least five senior listed players, possibly more if they want to upgrade rookies.

I challenge people to find five players at Gold Coast more likely to go than Sharp. He's gone imo.

 

[apuchar]

Let's take a look shall we..

Kicking efficiency stat (keep in mind that a kick of 40m+ only needs to not be marked to be considered effective):

Round 23: 42.9% (Loss)
Round 22: 42.9% (Win)
Round 21: 84.6% (Loss)
Round 20: 60% (Win)
Round 19: 60% (Loss)
Round 18: 70% (Loss)
Round 17: 66.7% (Loss)
Round 16: 68.4% (Loss)
Round 15: 68% (Win)
Round 14: 66.7% (Loss)
Round 13: 83.3% (Loss)
Round 12: Bye
Round 11 to 5: Not selected
Round 4: 44.4% (Loss)
Round 3: 0% (Win)
Round 2: 46.2% (Loss)
Round 1: 77.8% (Loss)

If you want to tell a story from that Henry comes in either with a safe mindset to kick long to a contest and then feels emboldended to take the risky kicks, or fatigues and starts missing kicks - leading to him missing more kicks than he hits before being dropped.

Whatever your story is, Henry is due to be dropped this week off the quality of his ball use by foot.

The question to ask is if Henry had been more effective by foot would we have won the game against North at home where we lost by a point and had +15% inside fifties on them despite losing clearances by 50%.

Supporters are fine to be upset if Henry leaves for the big lights of the Victorian footy capital after his performances with ball in hand contributed to us missing finals this season.

BUT, and it's a big BUT. Caleb Serong's ball use by foot was even worse.... but, again, I think inside mids get some leeway there over outside mids.

You do get more leeway unless you are out in the open when you miss those kicks. Brayshaw and Serong are missing targets when out in the open

 

[Swiggy]

That's one game, he's been bloody good before that.
You've stamped his papers, I get it.
You're wrong

he’s stamped his own papers he’s the one that wants out….
It’s hardly one game… he went at 55% against witches hats the week before.

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

That's one game, he's been bloody good before that.
You've stamped his papers, I get it.
You're wrong

The thing is when you've got the limitations that Henry will seemingly always have (gets bodied, intercepting/defending will never be a strength, lacks penetration in his kicks, etc), you have to be amazing at virtually everything else to be good enough. It's far easier for someone like Acres, who could always lean on his physicality, defensive awareness and kicking penetration (albeit sometimes deciding to penetrate the clouds) to carry him through games.

Hell, Brad Hill copped a lot of stick when he wasn't able to influence the game, and he's one of the best runners in the AFL of this generation.

 

[sumavich]

Don't know about Acres physicality? Has a body like Fyfe, but gets cornered like Henry.
Good runner though, if Liam isn't any good, why are there a number of suitors?

 

[Purpleheart_56]

Let's take a look shall we..

Kicking efficiency stat (keep in mind that a kick of 40m+ only needs to not be marked to be considered effective):

Round 23: 42.9% (Loss)
Round 22: 42.9% (Win)
Round 21: 84.6% (Loss)
Round 20: 60% (Win)
Round 19: 60% (Loss)
Round 18: 70% (Loss)
Round 17: 66.7% (Loss)
Round 16: 68.4% (Loss)
Round 15: 68% (Win)
Round 14: 66.7% (Loss)
Round 13: 83.3% (Loss)
Round 12: Bye
Round 11 to 5: Not selected
Round 4: 44.4% (Loss)
Round 3: 0% (Win)
Round 2: 46.2% (Loss)
Round 1: 77.8% (Loss)

If you want to tell a story from that Henry comes in either with a safe mindset to kick long to a contest and then feels emboldended to take the risky kicks, or fatigues and starts missing kicks - leading to him missing more kicks than he hits before being dropped.

Whatever your story is, Henry is due to be dropped this week off the quality of his ball use by foot.

The question to ask is if Henry had been more effective by foot would we have won the game against North at home where we lost by a point and had +15% inside fifties on them despite losing clearances by 50%.

Supporters are fine to be upset if Henry leaves for the big lights of the Victorian footy capital after his performances with ball in hand contributed to us missing finals this season.

BUT, and it's a big BUT. Caleb Serong's ball use by foot was even worse.... but, again, I think inside mids get some leeway there over outside mids.

To conclude:This season We won 4 and lost 11 with Henry in the team...So yeah I'll be happy for him to play for some other side...

 

[apuchar]

To conclude:This season We won 4 and lost 11 with Henry in the team...

That's crazy. Can't be serious. You could say the same about most of the team. How many games did we lose because our midfield wasn't up to it

 

[sumavich]

That's crazy. Can't be serious. You could say the same about most of the team. How many games did we lose because our midfield wasn't up to it

11

 

[sumavich]

Basically, our coaching staff cannot get the best out of the players they have!
Have a unicorn, don't really know where to play him. Liam, don't use him to his strengths.
Take a long time to get Young in to midfield.
Brayshaw not really going on with it. Freddy hit and miss, Switta same!
We will finish Bottom 5 with a list a sheetload better than that!

 

[Taylor]

To conclude:This season We won 4 and lost 11 with Henry in the team...So yeah I'll be happy for him to play for some other side...

Liam Henry ranks 15th for average score involvements this season.

 

[Taylor]

Liam, don't use him to his strengths.

What would you describe as his strengths?

 

[sumavich]

Changing the angles when going forward, perhaps that's what Longmuir was saying in his PC about not using our forward link up better

 

[Swiggy]

Basically, our coaching staff cannot get the best out of the players they have!
Have a unicorn, don't really know where to play him. Liam, don't use him to his strengths.
Take a long time to get Young in to midfield.
Brayshaw not really going on with it. Freddy hit and miss, Switta same!
We will finish Bottom 5 with a list a sheetload better than that!

They want to play him forward midfield but he’s had to ruck with Darcy injured

Would of thought coaches are the reason Liam has played ok is because the coaches back him and moved him to wing

Young was so good at half back hard to move.

Brayshaw has played injured or sore most the year

Most small forward are inconsistent???

 

[stormskye]

what about Ginnivan?

Contracted for next year pretty sure. He’s happy at the club, can’t see us letting him go. He’s got lots to work on though. Trey ruscoe would be cheap defender, we prob aren’t extending. He’s above vfl lvl IMO and a WA boy. Worth a rookie spot atleast

 

[Taylor]

Changing the angles when going forward, perhaps that's what Longmuir was saying in his PC about not using our forward link up better

Kicking into the corridor after a mark on the flank?

 

[apuchar]

We certainly want the corridor because it gives you more options going forward . Unfortunately, liams confidence isn't matched by his skill level atm

 

[Taylor]

We certainly want the corridor because it gives you more options going forward . Unfortunately, liams confidence isn't matched by his skill level atm

That's my position on Liam Henry. I think he could but his 30m+ kick is too loopy to pick off the slightly loose player in the corridor.

I'm not sure kicking can be improved at all in AFL players, I think they can make better choices which is maybe where Liam improves. Outlet mark working really hard on the fat side of the ground, then looking for the 20-25m kick slightly inboard to the midfielder working for Liam.

Issue for Henry there is that role can be filled by a lot of players.

 

[apuchar]

That's my position on Liam Henry. I think he could but his 30m+ kick is too loopy to pick off the slightly loose player in the corridor.

I'm not sure kicking can be improved at all in AFL players, I think they can make better choices which is maybe where Liam improves. Outlet mark working really hard on the fat side of the ground, then looking for the 20-25m kick slightly inboard to the midfielder working for Liam.

Issue for Henry there is that role can be filled by a lot of players.

If the skills thing is true then Brayshaw Serong is a real issue and Youngy has slipped a bit in that area. Young has a better baseline so he is less of a worry but Serong and Brayshaw get a lot of the ball in open play so it is concerning.

 

[Footskill]

If the skills thing is true then Brayshaw Serong is a real issue and Youngy has slipped a bit in that area. Young has a better baseline so he is less of a worry but Serong and Brayshaw get a lot of the ball in open play so it is concerning.

Very evident between port mids and those two. Example was that kick to rioli. Not sure either Brayshaw or serong can hit that.

 

[apuchar]

That's my position on Liam Henry. I think he could but his 30m+ kick is too loopy to pick off the slightly loose player in the corridor.

I'm not sure kicking can be improved at all in AFL players, I think they can make better choices which is maybe where Liam improves. Outlet mark working really hard on the fat side of the ground, then looking for the 20-25m kick slightly inboard to the midfielder working for Liam.

Issue for Henry there is that role can be filled by a lot of players.

I do think Henry is replaceable but his inside kicks are getting intercepted on the way through often Not getting the weighting right. He has the distance but not enough height in many cases iirc

 

[apuchar]

Very evident between port mids and those two. Example was that kick to rioli. Not sure either Brayshaw or serong can hit that.

Yeah i' m just concerned about the continuous practice they would need to do to get to and stay at that level. I'm Sure they can improve a little though. Brayshaw has improved some since his early days. Just doesn't maintain it, for obvious reasons.

 

[Taylor]

I do think Henry is replaceable but his inside kicks are getting intercepted on the way through often Not getting the weighting right. He has the distance but not enough height in many cases iirc

It's not exactly a complicated opposition planning to have the zone defense open the space 30m away from Henry and one on one closer to the ball.

I've said it a lot but our talls taking marks in the middle of the ground is what will lead to success, it's because of players like Henry and working within their capabilities. If Darcy, Jackson, Treacy particularly are taking contested marks then we get to start the game at half forward.

Fyfe and Taberner are significant marking power outside the team, working that back in might make for that ball movement problem and making Henry better because of it.

I'm looking at it from a "this is what we have to work with" attitude rather than a "I want more of this very rare and expensive elite attribute" headspace. We are lacking the superstar midfielder right now but I think we have four who would be that as soon as next season so that our current superstar forward can light it up inside fifty.

Tweaks and changes, it can turn very fast.

 

[sumavich]

Kicking can definitely improve in an AFL player. You don't all roll up as Stephen Hill

32

Stephen Hill

Age

36

Ht

183cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.5

5star

K

11.7

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.9

4star

MG

223.5

3star

D

13.5

3star

K

8.8

4star

HB

4.8

3star

M

4.8

4star

T

0.8

1star

MG

223.5

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

.
Practice makes perfect.
Liam was considered elite at juniors with his kicking, he still could be elite!
You'd be selling him too early, typical shit short sighted Freo

 

[Taylor]

Kicking can definitely improve in an AFL player. You don't all roll up as Stephen Hill.
Practice makes perfect.
Liam was considered elite at juniors with his kicking, he still could be elite!
You'd be selling him too early, typical s**t short sighted Freo

Some kicking doesn't translate to AFL. It's only the opinion of AFL coaches that think that the player you get kicking wise is the player you have when they walk in from the draft. That's why I said skill doesn't change, choosing better options does.

Care to comment on the effective kick stat I posted earlier?

Round 23: 42.9% (Loss)
Round 22: 42.9% (Win)
Round 21: 84.6% (Loss)
Round 20: 60% (Win)
Round 19: 60% (Loss)
Round 18: 70% (Loss)
Round 17: 66.7% (Loss)
Round 16: 68.4% (Loss)
Round 15: 68% (Win)
Round 14: 66.7% (Loss)
Round 13: 83.3% (Loss)
Round 12: Bye
Round 11 to 5: Not selected
Round 4: 44.4% (Loss)
Round 3: 0% (Win)
Round 2: 46.2% (Loss)
Round 1: 77.8% (Loss)