List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Say what you want about the draft but a top 20, s**t, even a top 25 pick is a top 25 pick. You're picking guys that are fairly known players plus you always get the odd top 10 slider too.

It would really open the draft up to us as well. GC look like they'll have 10 and 17 and those will be able to be traded for you'd think

 

[freo_leo29]

So after tonight’s result…..? We now won the trade?

Nope

 

[King Tenz]

Nope

The Cerra trade? Definitely sold him for unders.

 

[s_wd6]

Blink blink. You wot mate?

Look if we were getting a player from an oppo team who played some of the worst footy I’ve ever seen and hadnt shown anything in his previous three years at the club and only played about 5 good games in the back half of the year after being stuck in the seconds for the whole middle of the season then I would not expect to pay more than pick 30 ooc.

Jordan Clark was similar but had at least shown quite a bit in his first year and was contracted, and he went for pick 22. I just don’t see how we’d get more for an ooc Henry than Geelong got for a contracted Clark.

 

[Bender571]

Say what you want about the draft but a top 20, s**t, even a top 25 pick is a top 25 pick. You're picking guys that are fairly known players plus you always get the odd top 10 slider too.

After 3 academy players, 2 father son selections, a north priority pick, McKay compo, and a possible Doedee compo it'll probably be a pick after 25.

 

[Dockeroo]

After 3 academy players, 2 father son selections, a north priority pick, McKay compo, and a possible Doedee compo it'll probably be a pick after 25.

Two north PP they are saying

 

[s_wd6]

Two north PP they are saying

They can get ****ed

 

[Dockeroo]

They can get ****ed

Actually im wrong.
Pick 19 this year
Pick 19 next year
2nd round pick next year

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

For those saying we lost the Cerra trade: firstly I think the "if x was worth y then a should be worth b" discussion goes in circles, and if you look at what I think is the best way to evaluate a trade (did you leave the trade better than you entered it) I think the answer is clearly yes (Amiss for Cerra is a deal I do 1000 times out of 10).

But secondly, even if we do the whole "should have got x" stuff, show me the trade in the last 3 years or so that justifies a price significantly higher than pick 6 (became pick 8) and F3. Reality is that this ain't the market where 28 year old Gibbs gets you 2 firsts anymore. The rules for trading a great player seem to be:

• Being uncontracted reduces the trade price a little, but PSD threat is probably a bigger influence than being OOC
• Great player usually = 1 early-ish first or 2 late-ish firsts
• If a player was picked in the first round, is traded fairly early in their career and hasn't disappointed thus far, there's a correlation btwn where they were picked and what trade compo you get

Exceptions to these generic rules usually happen when a team trades their F1 and it's unexpectedly high/low (Jackson and Hopper were traded for F1s that none of the 4 clubs involved would've anticipated being picks 5 and 6 respectively).

For context of similarly priced recent trades in the last 3 years, not including the Jackson and Hopper exceptions where the F1 just ended up a lot higher than expected (these are what the picks were at the time of trading, not what they became on draft night):

• Taranto got GWS 12 + 19
• Dunkley and 2 x F3 got Bulldogs 21, F1, F2 and F4
• Rankine, 46 and F4 got Gold Coast 5, F3 and F4
• Saad got Essendon pick 8
• Cameron and 2 x F2 got GWS 13, 15, 20 and F4
• JHF and pick 1 got North picks 2, 3 and F1 (only trade which netted the receiving club a lot more than Cerra value, and that's a #1 pick getting traded after his first season)

I just don't see how, against that context, you can argue that Cerra was unders by any significant degree (unless you somehow think Cerra in 2021 was way more valuable than any of those players were when they were traded). If you wanna argue that maybe we should've gotten like pick 6 and a F2 rather than pick 6 and a F3 then I guess that's your prerogative, but any fantasy where we should've got pick 6 and another first is crazy talk.

 

[Righteo]

I think we did okay, as shown above it ranks similarly with other recent trades. Ultimately these trades usually result in unders but that's the nature of the beast when you're trading a known commodity (entrenched best 22 player) for an unknown one (17/18yo undrafted kids).

 

[FreoRicci]

The JOM bashing on this thread is unbelievable it’s hardly his fault he played the role better then Brodie & Erasmus.

He will be valuable if Brodie & Erasmus step up next year as he can also be dangerous up forward & if they move young into midfield full time he could also go to half back.

Think the fact it is versatile helps him get picked over the other 2. Where does Brodie & Erasmus go if they aren’t in the middle?

No he didn’t. Young came in and did more in his first game in midfield then JOM all season.
The better JOM is pushed out of the side, the better for the side’s chemistry and development.

 

[FreoRicci]

Some people take a long time to grow up looks like he finally has.

Not about growing up. More the fact he didn’t process his grieving as well as personal cancer. Young guy playing AFL then that happens, both within short timeframes.
The shit he went through in that time wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
Fremantle was never it. Unfortunate

 

[Swiggy]

No he didn’t. Young came in and did more in his first game in midfield then JOM all season.
The better JOM is pushed out of the side, the better for the side’s chemistry and development.

And again with the bashing haha shock. you can hardly blame JOM for what has gone on this year with the midfield. He has played some good games, he’s was clearly important & is great on field leader.

 

[DQ 4EVER]

Look if we were getting a player from an oppo team who played some of the worst footy I’ve ever seen and hadnt shown anything in his previous three years at the club and only played about 5 good games in the back half of the year after being stuck in the seconds for the whole middle of the season then I would not expect to pay more than pick 30 ooc.

Jordan Clark was similar but had at least shown quite a bit in his first year and was contracted, and he went for pick 22. I just don’t see how we’d get more for an ooc Henry than Geelong got for a contracted Clark.

Shhhhhhhh

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Joao]

I feel like I'm living in bizarro world where Vic journos are advocating for us to get a higher pick for one of our players then what I think we'll get.

Usually these guys are low balling our players.

I'm guessing they really hate the Saints. I doubt it is love for us. Either that or they are talking up his value to indicate how good he is so they can go all Acres on us when he has a couple of good moments in a final next year.

I don’t look at other club boards, but do other supporters have as much trouble moving on as we do? FFS!

Not sure but I'd say probably yes, we're all human after all. The Saints were still talking about Acres in their trade thread.

No he didn’t. Young came in and did more in his first game in midfield then JOM all season.
The better JOM is pushed out of the side, the better for the side’s chemistry and development.

After we get him to 100 games... convinced he's producing quality offspring.

 

[malpaso]

I'd just like us to stick with Brodie in the side. We need an inside player like him that tackles and has elite handball skills and is a bull. The accountability excuse wears thin when your asking a bash and crash type player to do that throughout a match. I don't see Cripps and players like him being any sort of defensive geniuses.
With Brayshaw, Serong, Young and Johnson there's enough to cover the 'outside'.

 

[Ge3ks]

I'd just like us to stick with Brodie in the side. We need an inside player like him that tackles and has elite handball skills and is a bull.

Agreed. He is a big guy he with exceptionally long arms that can scoop up a ground ball at speed and fire out the handball. We need him in there if we want to win more centre clearances.

 

[go_the_dockers]

No mater how you look at our midfield setup, it is clear we need more outside class.

A brodie, serong and Brayshaw starting midfield is fine with good wings.
Young is a midfield rotation, but we must improve our wings

 

[mightymouse75]

No mater how you look at our midfield setup, it is clear we need more outside class.

A brodie, serong and Brayshaw starting midfield is fine with good wings.
Young is a midfield rotation, but we must improve our wings

Young to the wing ?
Old man fyfe and jom are not the inside bulls we are looking for.

 

[Lach72]

Melbourne with 5 and 13 and GWS with 6 and 15 after where they finished .

Yes, I know what it happened. But still

 

[go_the_dockers]

Young to the wing ?
Old man fyfe and jom are not the inside bulls we are looking for.

Just highlighting how imbalanced our list is, and the need for outside mids in the draft.

No idea why we though O'Meara would help

 

[freo_leo29]

Does 13 and 32 for Henry, 21 and 40 work for us?

Values at 37 but obviously points valuation doesn't mean anything for the Saints

Feels like its close if they are getting 13 for losing Gresham, I'm not overly happy on it which tells me its probably fair enough

Saints draft hand goes from 12,13,32 to 13, 21, 40 but they get Henry

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Does 13 and 32 for Henry, 21 and 40 work for us?

Values at 37 but obviously points valuation doesn't mean anything for the Saints

Feels like its close if they are getting 13 for losing Gresham, I'm not overly happy on it which tells me its probably fair enough

Saints draft hand goes from 12,13,32 to 13, 21, 40 but they get Henry

I really struggle to believe we are getting a top 15 pick in any way (though acknowledging this draft is different), I feel like this is all too good to be realistic but we’ll see

 

[Joao]

I really struggle to believe we are getting a top 15 pick in anyway (though acknowledging this draft is different), I feel like this is all too good to be realistic but we’ll see

I agree in principle, but I wonder how much the expected bids affect that. It is a minimum of 3 before that pick and could be as many as five.

Would love to be a fly on the wall for this one.

 

[King Huskii]

I really struggle to believe we are getting a top 15 pick in anyway (though acknowledging this draft is different), I feel like this is all too good to be realistic but we’ll see

I'm no draft expert. So I'll ask this. What players at or around pick 13 would benefit our best 22?

Freo need something worth while otherwise it will slow down our rebuild