VFL 2023 - Reserves Game Day discussion Rnds 1 - 22 (Merged threads)

[teddy-hopkins]

Plowman still ahead of Kemp IMO

So we’ve gone past a player who for the majority of the game was to good for the level, until he was effectively tagged as a full back? Makes sense - I guess it upsets the narrative that he played so well.
Best 22 - probably not. Extremely solid as a depth option - it’s beyond argument that’s what he can provide, which is an important part of list strategy whether you like it or not.

Too good for VFL not good enough for AFL.

Turning 29 this year - that is list clogging.

 

[thylacine60]

as someone said on the twitter, simmo used to drop in front of the monsters too.........

 

[chipzac]

How do they improve if they leave the game because a bunch of supporters say they should? Enough young people are hounded out of the sport by abuse from over the fence and online. Perhaps the supporters need to change?

Not much thought put into what I wrote (just came out from the heat of the moment).
I just prefer to see a game that's more free-flowing, not too over-umpired either for us or against us.

To me, it at times appeared like there were 3 teams out there and that the umpires were too much of an influence on the game.
I, personally, would prefer them them to be more low-key and not to stand out so much, but sure, give the free when it's due.
But, I do enjoy watching games most when I can't remember noticing the umpires much.

I don't think umpires are much different from the players in that they can have good and bad performances, too.
As long as they are not personal attacks on people involved (as mine probably was), I see no reason why supporters can't comment on particular decisions as they do on the players. I'm not too worried by one or two glaringly bad decisions here or there, but when the complexion of the game itself starts to change because of a number or series of them, I find it hard to enjoy (even if it is benefitting us).

We all want to get better at what we do, so I hope they are critiquing each other's performance and receiving plenty of feedback from people other than supporters so they can improve which I'm sure they are getting. Right or wrong this is just an opinion.

 

[BartSimpson]

Plowman has all the talent in the world and none of the mental durability required.
It's not that he can't seriously play, it's that he constantly goes to water in the ones.
Has proven he can't keep it together.
We should just move on.

Don't forget, every game and training whether 2s or 1s is an opportunity to develop and improve.
He's just not taking his chances and seems pretty comfortable with it.

Sure he has moments in games he’d like to take back, but so does everyone. In my opinion he doesn’t have more or less than most players, it’s just that he’s viewed with a different lense. And I think questioning his mental durability is a very long stretch.
That said, everyone has an opinion which they are entitled to - they only one that really matters is that of the coaching staff, until now they’ve been happy to have him in the AFL team, and time will tell what the future bodes.

 

[BartSimpson]

Too good for VFL not good enough for AFL.

Turning 29 this year - that is list clogging.

Yeah nah can’t agree with you there. It’s not SuperCoach where you fill a list with guns and rookies, depth players play a massive role in a list.
But each to their own - I’d rather a depth/role player to rely on when we are pushing to contend rather than a late draft pick/rookie pick who’s several years away at best. If we were in full rebuild mode it might be a different story, but that’s not us right now.

 

[Brackets]

This is a bit strange

How would anyone know what is asked of him at a forward stoppage?

The VFL is where you tweak a players responsibility, role, positioning, etc

Trial him as a HHF, give him some centre bounces, especially with his burst speed

Yet the coaches haven't made the move, what does that tell you?

Honey has traits worth persisting with. Until he shows the aptitude to break away from a forward stoppage though he won't suddenly get thrown in the middle.

 

[thylacine60]

Not much thought put into what I wrote (just came out from the heat of the moment).
I just prefer to see a game that's more free-flowing, not too over-umpired either for us or against us.

To me, it at times appeared like there were 3 teams out there and that the umpires were too much of an influence on the game.
I, personally, would prefer them them to be more low-key and not to stand out so much, but sure, give the free when it's due.
But, I do enjoy watching games most when I can't remember noticing the umpires much.

I don't think umpires are much different from the players in that they can have good and bad performances, too.
As long as they are not personal attacks on people involved (as mine probably was), I see no reason why supporters can't comment on particular decisions as they do on the players. I'm not too worried by one or two glaringly bad decisions here or there, but when the complexion of the game itself starts to change because of a number or series of them, I find it hard to enjoy (even if it is benefitting us).

We all want to get better at what we do, so I hope they are critiquing each other's performance and receiving plenty of feedback from people other than supporters so they can improve which I'm sure they are getting. Right or wrong this is just an opinion.

Quality post.

 

[Arr0w]

Yet the coaches haven't made the move, what does that tell you?

Honey has traits worth persisting with. Until he shows the aptitude to break away from a forward stoppage though he won't suddenly get thrown in the middle.

It tells me they haven't tried it, hasn't told me it couldn't work

 

[ferrisb]

Forward entries were appalling just bombing it in & outnumbered every time

They do say it's important to ensure the seniors and reserves teams have a similar gameplan...

 

[ferrisb]

Binns reminds me alot of Lachie Hunter in terms of playing style and the way he moves.

Fingers crossed he avoids Hunter's extra curricular activities...

 

[Michael Jezz]

Hoping we stick with Kemp mainly as third tall defender.

Probably his best position and chance of making the 22.

Gov and marchbank always injured and I'd rather not go back to Plow if we can.

Kemp will always be in my best senior 22. This might be controversrsial but he will quickly surpass Mcgovern and Marchbank. He has earnt a chunk of senior time since mid last year. He is also a better key defender than durdin and improved his ground ball game. He will be a trade target of other clubs. I still see a 200 game player in Kemp. Kemp has never been given the opportunities like Dow, Cowans and Hollands. Voss has got it wrong with kemp

 

[Michael Jezz]

If a player can not kick, he can not play midfield @ Afl finals level. Do you think Carrol can make it?

What was Binns disposal like, can it hit the level?

 

[El Topo]

Kemp will always be in my best senior 22. This might be controversrsial but he will quickly surpass Mcgovern and Marchbank. He has earnt a chunk of senior time since mid last year. He is also a better key defender than durdin and improved his ground ball game. He will be a trade target of other clubs. I still see a 200 game player in Kemp. Kemp has never been given the opportunities like Dow, Cowans and Hollands. Voss has got it wrong with kemp

he was extremely stiff to get dropped after the second Freo game, particularly since we must have known by that point that Stocker was goneski at the end of the season

 

[CCurnow3picks]

Not suggesting he should play as a mid.

Suggesting he starts as a HF, pushing up to the edge of a stoppage, a few cameos at centre bounces

Think that would get him more involved, which, with his xfactor traits, could take him to another level

Might sounds daft - but he could be our Dagoey, Heeney, midfield power pack -pushing forward off the front of the midfield or off a wing - project player I grant you

 

[CCurnow3picks]

Kemp will always be in my best senior 22. This might be controversrsial but he will quickly surpass Mcgovern and Marchbank. He has earnt a chunk of senior time since mid last year. He is also a better key defender than durdin and improved his ground ball game. He will be a trade target of other clubs. I still see a 200 game player in Kemp. Kemp has never been given the opportunities like Dow, Cowans and Hollands. Voss has got it wrong with kemp

Id love to see this in Kemp - I’ve seen nothing to date that reflects 20 games let alone 200. Always wishful - he doesn’t seem tall, big, smart, skilful enough - not sure what he is really , yet.

Maybe Voss et al can mould him - he’s probably an inside mid - but lacks a bit of pace & calm under pressure at AFL level. I don’t see him as a spine player.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

If a player can not kick, he can not play midfield @ Afl finals level. Do you think Carrol can make it?

What was Binns disposal like, can it hit the level?

I think Carroll is a good kick.

 

[gbatman]

Looked like Dow spent most of the game on the ball. He played pretty well, he has some tricks, he does things such as break away from opponents that others cant do.

Carroll looked to be playing mostly half forward. Does nice clean composed things but didn't have a huge game. Expecting more onball time but that does not look like it's in our plans yet. Could he put a bit of pressure on some of our more out of form half forward flanks? Could he fill a forward/mid role for us?

Kemp looks to be maturing and playing that 3rd tall defender role really well. Better over head. He has pace to burn if he needs to use it which is a real bonus for us.

Plowman is a smart footballer, the slower pace smaller matchups you get in the VFL suite him to a Tee. In the AFL everyone and the game is a lot quicker, they play taller and he can't implement the required offensive part of his game that he can at VFL level.

Binns looks a natural footballer. Looks to be playing mostly wing.

O'Brien played wing and was pretty good. IMO he has matured a little more this year, a tad more physical. He's a great player straight line kicking, his kicks are excellent, it's the more tricky kicks, snaps, round the corner kicks he's not good at.

I can see O'Keefe when he fills out in a few years time being a decent ruckman. Can't see it with Mirkov.

Probably the best game I have seen Akuei play.

Cincotta looks like he could play AFL if a spot opens up for him.

What happened to Durdin?

Lemmy has some nice skills but is a fair way away.

Honey looks a bit hot and cold. Did some nice things, looks an AFL player with ball in hand, did some nice pressure acts. Just not doing enough. Was quiet when he went on the ball. Just needs to build footy IQ and fitness to maintain intensity.

Fogarty is good at this level but would not consider for AFL.

I wouldn't say anyone played poorly. I wouldn't say anyone is screaming to be promoted. But there are plenty who put their hand up and said they could play AFL and might play it pretty well. Those would be Kemp, Plowman, Dow, Cincotta, O'Brien and Carroll.

 

[HarryFlashman]

If a player can not kick, he can not play midfield @ Afl finals level. Do you think Carrol can make it?

What was Binns disposal like, can it hit the level?

To be fair neither of them were to flash, Binns is excused as he’s been around for 2 seconds, Carrol I was hoping for a little more, which I think will come

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

If a player can not kick, he can not play midfield @ Afl finals level. Do you think Carrol can make it?

What was Binns disposal like, can it hit the level?

I think Carroll is well behind Dow in midfield abilities, and both are unlikely to make it at Carlton due to lack of senior opportunities.
Another club will lure them away like Setterfield, and with more senior experience they'll both succeed(especially Dow).
Ed Curnow is a great clubman and pretty hard at it mid(he won't be playing next year), but to give him games instead of developing our younger players is short sighted.
Unless they're extremely patient, we'll need to draft in more mid talent this year.(Carroll is contracted for next year)

 

[gbatman]

I liked Kemps game, he was clean, he marked well, he read the play well. That is when playing defence. He's got that leg speed he can turn to when needed. That's something that's really handy to have at AFL level.

I think there are a few out there who have leg speed that might play better at AFL level. Kemp is one of them, Cincotta is another. Things are different when you have really smart players out there directing you, it's also a faster more open type of footy.

O'Keefe is our third in line ruck IMO. The guys is a natural footballer. Smaller list sizes no doubt will make teams hesitant to take young ruckmen on. Probably why he was undrafted. You can imagine him with a bigger stronger body and a few VFL seasons. He's going to be a decent ruckman. Like how we are developing his forward game.

Lemmey has some nice skills, good over head, good kick, handles the ball well. When he puts on size, learns how to crash packs and deal with the lose players who will park in front of him he's going to be good.

A lot to like about McMahon, he can play a bit. Maher getting injured and playing injured really hurt us.

Just on Honey again, he's had injuries, he looks like someone who has missed a lot of development. I think his pressure acts were up and down and all over the place, last quarter they picked up, he needs to find consistency here, really use his closing speed to get to the lose ball and the man. He needs to be all about relentless pressure and good tackling and the rest will come. Was not taken with this time on the ball, he went in there and did nothing but has the tools, would like to see him given a tagging role at some stage.

Binns, how he was just in the right place at the right time and loose all the time. It reminded me a bit of what Sidebottom is doing at Collingwood at the moment. Sidebottom is short and slow and plays wing and gets plenty of it because of his footy smarts. Binns might have that which is good recruiting. Not sure what position he will end up playing but good to see a young guy play a difficult position and just nail his positioning and timing.

On Plowman. He's slow and smart. He's going to kick out, position for the handball out the back and get to the right places and rack it up at this level. We know what he's going to do at AFL level. Newman plays this role at AFL level and is an upgrade.

Jack Carroll is a good kick, not sure what people are on about. Racked them up when given midfield time, he's another who can play but might need some developing time.

We need to have another look at Dow, preferably when we have an easier run. He's got a lot of what we need in our midfield and that's leg speed. He's using it a little more do defend which will be what the coach wants to see but probably not quite enough yet. Needs time to develop around other ball winners, not as the ball winner every time IMO but can we afford to do that?

 

[AlecDuncan]

Not suggesting he should play as a mid.

Suggesting he starts as a HF, pushing up to the edge of a stoppage, a few cameos at centre bounces

Think that would get him more involved, which, with his xfactor traits, could take him to another level

Yes, he's clever enough to make cameos there, and should learn to do so.

 

[Sonny Jim]

Sure he has moments in games he’d like to take back, but so does everyone. In my opinion he doesn’t have more or less than most players, it’s just that he’s viewed with a different lense. And I think questioning his mental durability is a very long stretch.
That said, everyone has an opinion which they are entitled to - they only one that really matters is that of the coaching staff, until now they’ve been happy to have him in the AFL team, and time will tell what the future bodes.

Meh.
I call it like I see it.

 

[windows1]

Just got around to watching the game properly. I think most of my observations have been covered. Just little extras:

• Dow is definitely trying to step out of traffic and use that as his point of difference. It’s a big change over his past 12 months. Once it hurt him but I don’t mind. His defensive running is better. Intensity to tackle still not quite where I want it but a bit better. Very very good backup. Persist!
• Kemp was terrific. If anything happens to MCG he is an auto in and a very good one. He’s afl ready now. Kicking has imrovoed. Decision making good. Marking great. He can’t fill in as a second tall so don’t ever hope for that. He’s never going to be strong enough body to body for that. But he’s very good.
• Binns surprised me. I thought he was superb. His kicking is never going to be amazing but it was a lot better than it was preseason. Eveything else is good. I didn’t agree with the poster who said he neeed to add kilos. They wouldn’t hurt but his body is afl strong now. His running is ridiculously good. He is very hard at it. Hands very good. Wouldnt at all mind seeing him in the ones soon.

To me they were easily the most afl ready out there for us.

 

[The Bighouse]

Just got around to watching the game properly. I think most of my observations have been covered. Just little extras:

• Dow is definitely trying to step out of traffic and use that as his point of difference. It’s a big change over his past 12 months. Once it hurt him but I don’t mind. His defensive running is better. Intensity to tackle still not quite where I want it but a bit better. Very very good backup. Persist!
• Kemp was terrific. If anything happens to MCG he is an auto in and a very good one. He’s afl ready now. Kicking has imrovoed. Decision making good. Marking great. He can’t fill in as a second tall so don’t ever hope for that. He’s never going to be strong enough body to body for that. But he’s very good.
• Binns surprised me. I thought he was superb. His kicking is never going to be amazing but it was a lot better than it was preseason. Eveything else is good. I didn’t agree with the poster who said he neeed to add kilos. They wouldn’t hurt but his body is afl strong now. His running is ridiculously good. He is very hard at it. Hands very good. Wouldnt at all mind seeing him in the ones soon.

To me they were easily the most afl ready out there for us.

No love for the Plow?

 

[Accidental genius]

Just got around to watching the game properly. I think most of my observations have been covered. Just little extras:

• Dow is definitely trying to step out of traffic and use that as his point of difference. It’s a big change over his past 12 months. Once it hurt him but I don’t mind. His defensive running is better. Intensity to tackle still not quite where I want it but a bit better. Very very good backup. Persist!
• Kemp was terrific. If anything happens to MCG he is an auto in and a very good one. He’s afl ready now. Kicking has imrovoed. Decision making good. Marking great. He can’t fill in as a second tall so don’t ever hope for that. He’s never going to be strong enough body to body for that. But he’s very good.
• Binns surprised me. I thought he was superb. His kicking is never going to be amazing but it was a lot better than it was preseason. Eveything else is good. I didn’t agree with the poster who said he neeed to add kilos. They wouldn’t hurt but his body is afl strong now. His running is ridiculously good. He is very hard at it. Hands very good. Wouldnt at all mind seeing him in the ones soon.

To me they were easily the most afl ready out there for us.

Good news. I’m glad the club is putting in effort to develop players in a focussed/meaningful way. And it’s great that Dow is willing to work with the club to get better, rather than tell the club to stick it. A good personality trait. shows he is a team player.

if the rumour from last year that swans were interested is true then to me that is an encouraging sign that Dow has potential to be a good/very good player. From where I sit swans do an excellent job with player development. This is an area we need to get better at and I think we are working towards that.