List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[gringo2011]

Last year, around this time, Clark was a top ten pick according to many posters here.

I know it's mean but i gotta lol

He probably was worth that nominally on potential. The reality check came after his very uninspiring 2023.First round picks have a potential value until a certain point and then they are worth nothing. Carlton would have shopped Stocker and got no bites because that potential value had dropped off.

 

[stavro#4]

Last year, around this time, Clark was a top ten pick according to many posters here.

I know it's mean but i gotta lol

He has had a better career at the same point as Liam Henry….


Who Peter Bell is asking for our first round pick

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You would have to be very unlucky to have a repeat of Paddy and Hugh Goddard injuries to high picks. There was some real bad decisions - like the pick they gave for Tom Lee and trading a future secound rounder swap to get Clavarino (When the next draft was supposed to be stronger). I thought Brandon White should have got more games (Not sure why?). Dmac a little unlucky being a high pick come good but it looks like injuries might prematurely end his career. Still some hope for him.

Better coach, better assistants and development now. Current list manager had made a promising start. Also, they are actively looking for midfielders now. I would back the current mob.

Coffield and Clark still might come good.

Tom Lee didn't really affect us badly, unless we were into Grundy. Late first round that year was very lack lustre. Actually a lot of the draft was. I'm worried that if we go all out for late draft picks this year it'll be a similar result.

 

[John2010362340]

Exactly what I was thinking.
A game plan that relies heavily on defence trading away one of the few KPDs in the competition?
Makes no sense at all.

It doesn't rely on back 6 defence. It relies on team defence, like all good teams do. We got scored against heavily on Saturday because what was happening up the ground not what was happening in our D50.

 

[stavro#4]

It doesn't rely on back 6 defence. It relies on team defence, like all good teams do. We got scored against heavily on Saturday because what was happening up the ground not what was happening in our D50.

Correct.

Cordy was Infact positioned correctly a few of the times people highlighted he got burnt.

The problem was there was no defensive pressure to slow the ball down.

 

[stavro#4]

And for what it’s worth.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Clark says he wants to go to North.

They still very much like him

 

[bergholt]

It doesn't rely on back 6 defence. It relies on team defence, like all good teams do. We got scored against heavily on Saturday because what was happening up the ground not what was happening in our D50.

Mids, mids and more mids.

 

[John2010362340]

Question to those who have spoken to Gresham or know more about him then myself, is he a bit of a prick?

Just the vibe i get.

He's a mess when he drinks, best mates with Ro, thinks there's a click happening at the club. I think there's just a bunch of super driven kids that want to get the max out of themselves, where Gresh kinda liked it the old way where half arsed was enough to get you by.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

given we have put Howard in for surgery I don't believe he is on the table.......

Or…..
Who would want to trade in a player that hasn’t had simple finger surgery post season? If contracted players need surgery they get it.

 

[Imtellingya]

Look, this is just a very small observation of Heath, and one that I had very soon after his selection. So he was very young and raw.
In that context: he had the ball in a pack, bent over and in that split second before being tackled, he leaned into the tackle with his shoulder.
I saw that and immediately knew that he had a sense of the game.
Whether he has the ability to play, I have now seen enough to say yes.
Good mark, can kick and kick goals, plays a little like Roma in that he will follow up his ruck work with tackles.
The question remains at what level.
That’s the essence of the current debate.

I too saw Heath in a training session not long after he was selected. He was very involved in running, kicking and marking in amongst the main group and didn’t look out of place at all. I have watched him at Sandy and training a number of times since and there seems to be gradual improvement. Contrasting with that though was his performance in the time trials where he struggled and was often lapped by a few players

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Yes I agree.

The the point is that you can’t expect to make the leap into the top 4 - which in my opinion is the hardest leap to make by selecting 15th in the draft as your big list change.

There is also a very real scenario we go backwards with this exact same list aswell.

I’d rather say bye to Clark Gresham Howard and try improve in the draft

I think you’re right. Retaining those players will hold us at ninth to sixth, thereby stuck with mediocre draft picks for an eternity without ever hitting top four.
We probably really need to trade out and have a quick bottom six bottom out before theoretically meteorically shooting back up the ladder.

I also think Rtb will be introducing a whole new game plan next year based very closely around the Hawks plan. We saw a bit of a shift towards it towards the end of the season. He’ll be looking for fast hard running players with a strong and accurate short game.

 

[The Cobra]

He's a mess when he drinks, best mates with Ro, thinks there's a click happening at the club. I think there's just a bunch of super driven kids that want to get the max out of themselves, where Gresh kinda liked it the old way where half arsed was enough to get you by.

Believe he might have been part of the group that didn’t take it too seriously last year under Ratts and got up to some heavy drinking and other antics (not drugs) post game.

 

[Veer Right]

And for what it’s worth.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Clark says he wants to go to North.

They still very much like him

Last year we had pick 19 wasn't it? What are we looking at this year?

 

[gringo2011]

Yes I agree.

The the point is that you can’t expect to make the leap into the top 4 - which in my opinion is the hardest leap to make by selecting 15th in the draft as your big list change.

There is also a very real scenario we go backwards with this exact same list aswell.

I’d rather say bye to Clark Gresham Howard and try improve in the draft

If Gresham gets a second round pick I think it's a probable down grade. Clark not fussed on but would almost be zero return now. Probably close to zero value. Howard will get a decent return but could end up being a scenario where you sell McEvoy then pay more for Hickey and Longer to replace him and end up with nothing.

 

[stavro#4]

I think you’re right. Retaining those players will hold us at ninth to sixth, thereby stuck with mediocre draft picks for an eternity without ever hitting top four.
We probably really need to trade out and have a quick bottom six bottom out before theoretically meteorically shooting back up the ladder.

I also think Rtb will be introducing a whole new game plan next year based very closely around the Hawks plan. We saw a bit of a shift towards it towards the end of the season. He’ll be looking for fast hard running players with a strong and accurate short game.

I don’t know about entire new Gameplan.

But they think they will be able to do a lot more skill and connection work this off-season compared to last.

Fitness shouldn’t be an issue. It will be about body fat and hitting time trial goals. Tick them off and it’s ball work.

Players fails. Then he runs in the fat club

 

[gringo2011]

Last year we had pick 19 wasn't it? What are we looking at this year?

Phillipou went at 10. We had nominally pick 9.

 

[stavro#4]

If Gresham gets a second round pick I think it's a probable down grade. Clark not fussed on but would almost be zero return now. Probably close to zero value. Howard will get a decent return but could end up being a scenario where you sell McEvoy then pay more for Hickey and Longer to replace him and end up with nothing.

You can package them all up Gringo and get a better pick. It’s not the individual returns I’m overly concerned about.

It’s the overall return.

 

[stavro#4]

Last year we had pick 19 wasn't it? What are we looking at this year?

We wanted a first rounder for Clark.

We offered 9 and Clark for 3. With us requesting other picks back and forth. Like a second rounder.

They said no.

They wanted our future first involved etc.

Edited. Sorry mate. Misread your post.

We had pick 9 and it became 10.

 

[Veer Right]

We wanted a first rounder for Clark.

We offered 9 and Clark for 3. With us requesting other picks back and forth. Like a second rounder.

They said no.

They wanted our future first involved etc.

Edited. Sorry mate. Misread your post.

We had pick 9 and it became 10.

I wasn't punctual. Didn't North offer up pick 19 for Clark as their last offer to us?

 

[gringo2011]

Correct.

Cordy was Infact positioned correctly a few of the times people highlighted he got burnt.

The problem was there was no defensive pressure to slow the ball down.

He can't contest the ball drop though. He might have stood in the right spot but was unable to spoil, move his player or mark. Most of the time he was barely an impediment. Dougal isn't flash but he would have spoiled half those entries maybe all of them. Cordy was having a shocker at the worst possible time. He lost all confidence and you could see him panic as the ball came near him. We sat behind the goals and you could see fear in his eyes. He was barely serviceable. I thought up until then he was the answer but I'm pretty much off that idea now. I think playing Van Es into experience would be preferable if we are going to go backwards.

 

[gringo2011]

I think you’re right. Retaining those players will hold us at ninth to sixth, thereby stuck with mediocre draft picks for an eternity without ever hitting top four.
We probably really need to trade out and have a quick bottom six bottom out before theoretically meteorically shooting back up the ladder.

I also think Rtb will be introducing a whole new game plan next year based very closely around the Hawks plan. We saw a bit of a shift towards it towards the end of the season. He’ll be looking for fast hard running players with a strong and accurate short game.

The Hawks are a very inside contested side who handball it to the outside and then move it fast. Not sure we have the side to do that game plan. It relies on a lot of inside mids.

 

[puppy_dog7]

He has had a better career at the same point as Liam Henry….


Who Peter Bell is asking for our first round pick

The issue is comparing those 2 is that Henry is younger and trending upwards.
Clark is older, and trending downwards.

Recency bias, whether you like it or not is big determinant when it comes to the trade period.

 

[gringo2011]

You can package them all up Gringo and get a better pick. It’s not the individual returns I’m overly concerned about.

It’s the overall return.

We have to find someone that wants our pile of dirty laundry for a new shirt though. GC will have some really good offers on the table for pick 4. Maybe Dogs want to exchange their second round pick to use on Croft for some junk time picks. Who else needs points?

 

[Tommy Wigs]

How are Port going to get all these blokes they’ve told to come over?
They’ll have to give us Bergman that’s how.

Because they’re three pretty average players

 

[stavro#4]

The issue is comparing those 2 is that Henry is younger and trending upwards.
Clark is older, and trending downwards.

Recency bias, whether you like it or not is big determinant when it comes to the trade period.

Henry has been largely dogshit at Freo bar his last 3 months.

Clark whilst not spectacular played 19 games for a side who played finals

And has performed on the finals stage for us prior.

You can see why we wanted a first round pick last year and thought that was a fair price - which is roughly what he would have been valued at in that pick 3 for Clark + 9 deal.

Considering freos opening gambit according to the media is wanting our pick 12.