List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[gringo2011]

I did say within reason - that was my reason.

AS you said if he plays, No issues.

If we are expecting Heath and Campbell to carry us we might aswell book september holidays months in advance

Sorry but that's bullshit. Plenty of sides play with shit ruckman and win matches. Plenty have won premierships with guys that I could take down. We should get some better mids to cover the midfield depth if we are an injury to Marshall off plummeting.

 

[gringo2011]

Silence = Carlton. In my opinion its where he wants to get to, but they have bigger fish to fry right now and they dont need the distraction of trade discussions. Which is why i think 'Carlton discussions have cooled'. He has had six months of think music. He knows exactly what he wants already. He doesnt need another fortnight to make up his mind. Mad Carlton fan growing up and his brothers NGA links would have made his desire to get there even stronger.

Likewise with Coffield - if Dogs are really keen he will jump over in a heartbeat. Brisbane not so much, unless it was purely for opportunity. He was privately devastated when we took him one pick before WB could do so.

Not sure about that, no player gives a **** about their junior team once they get inside the system. Doubt it would be of any interest unless the pay is more or terms are better. If Coff doesn't want to go to Brisbane it will be because moving cities is a pain in the arse, not because he still fetishises the Dogs.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Byrnes > Billings

By which metric?

 

[sauce_head]

Barassi learned from his coach the legendary Norm Smith, who learned from his coach the legendary coach Frank ‘Checker’ Hughes, who was a devotee of the legendary coach John ‘Jack’ Worrall.

All of them coached multiple Premierships and had golden eras. Hughes with two clubs (Richmond and Melbourne) and Worrall at two clubs (Carlton and Essendon). All of them were “super coaches” of their times. All of them handed down the principles that Barassi learned and espoused.

The principles of team sport have been the same forever, the differences over time being the learnings, data and application.

Barassi also said that the saying that “practice makes perfect” was crap. Rather, he said “perfect practice makes perfect”. Natural ability is nothing to be respected, rather uncompromising effort is the only thing to be respected. Basic stuff. Honesty and integrity.

In simple terms, Barassi believed teams won’t succeed until they ruthlessly implement exemplary standards for people, skills, expectations and culture.

Among all of the coaches in the AFL, the one with a similar ruthless mindset to Barassi is our coach, Ross Lyon. He may not have the talent or resources of other clubs, but there is no doubting his intent and his transparency. That’s why we are now in good hands.

So true. Great post. The apologists will be scurrying away for cover.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

But Jon Ralph couldn’t believe we were getting rid of him cos he polled Brownlow votes in 2021

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Dodoro stepping aside for Matt Rosa after this draft. A sad day indeed

 

[sammm]

But Jon Ralph couldn’t believe we were getting rid of him cos he polled Brownlow votes in 2021

he obviously got paid out for his last year.

 

[sauce_head]

If we get Dow, Jordon and Henry.

Lose only Billings, Gresham and maybe Coffield to get the deals done.

• I can't see Gresham staying if he wants 800K+
• Billings is of use to other sides and he isn't in our top 22
• Coffield is of use to other sides and he isn't in our top 22

Then I think we will be ahead, have an improved midfield and be ready for another dig at the finals.



Liam Henry can play... this excites me to have someone like this wanting to come to us

He won’t get those free kicks paid if he is in a saints jumper!

 

[Leap of Faith]

I’m not done with Billings - nice skills and really had no chance to show what he had this year under RTB given the broken leg and then soft tissue injuries (lack of load after broken leg?). Anyway maybe RTB doesn’t rate him, and to be fair to him probably a new start at another club is what he needs.

Gresham - I‘ve been consistent all season - meh! Not a midfielder, lousy disposal - smart forward on his day. If he wants big money bye bye!

Coff - agree would hate to lose him - lot of upside - hopefully gets a season to show what he can do under RTB and Enright

I’m done with Billings. 152 games, 107 goals mostly as a half forward. 10 years at the club. Patchy, inconsistent and frustrating were all fitting adjectives when he was fit. And now consistently injured. You’d reckon his best is behind him. 29 next year. Hanging on and hoping for a miraculous rebirth is exactly what we’ve done with players like Hannebery and Zak Jones. “If he gets fit……….” Meh.
If we can get any value trading him then let him go and move on.

 

[Sun Ra]

EDIT: Jack Silvagni

3

Jack Silvagni

Age

28

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

MG

176.9

3star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

MG

91.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

MG

131.4

3star

has re-signed w/Carlton for 2 years.

 

[malevu]

That’s fine but everyone demanding that Gresham go for his kicking might need to come to terms with his disposal

Everyone knows we need to improve our midfield depth but not by recruiting more ball butchers and turn over merchants. It has to equally be a priority to fix that element of our play. If you've listened to Lyon throughout the year he's made it quite clear where he's sees our deficiencies. Midfield depth and disposal efficiency.

I for one don't want any more players brought to the club who struggle to kick 50 metres and can't hit a pass to a team mate 30-40 metres away. I've seen that story play out for too long now

 

[gringo2011]

As a club as a list we are moving forward.

Moving on players like Howard Billings Clark Membrey etc to invest in our future. To help us become a contender isn’t confusing.

But by doing so there is every chance we get found out because the kids might not be ready to step up.

That doesn’t make the plan bad or confusing. It’s the reality of trying to avoid bottoming out where the access to the best kids are.

We missed out on TDK. Out of the McKay running pretty early on in the piece.

Henry Jordan and dow make the list better but don’t necessarily turn us into a top 4 side.


All of that can be true. Like wise we can set ourselves up for a flag and not play finals next year.

It’s not hard to understand even for you.

The core of this list is the group of kids from King through to Caminiti & Pou.

Everyone else will eventually fall away until we are left with a small group who have shown they are good enough to stick around when this core is at its peak.

Or keep most of the older guys and cull the shit ones so that we don't drop away? Not all the kids will be stars, some might not go any better than the old guys have.

Lethlean had the idea of trading out players for picks and buying up players. The only problem was that we didn't have anything anyone else wanted so had to pay top dollar for middlers and sold all ours for loose change.

So far the only way that we have significantly improved on the last decade is hitting quality in the front end of the draft with King, Nas and Phillipou and arsing a haul in the NGA with Owens and Windhager. All the other moves have been pretty much shifting sideways.

Could easily say that we'd be better off seeing if we can get a few older guys that were injured fit and firing to step up a level.

 

[stfan]

Jack Silvani has re-signed w/Carlton for 2 years.

And in breaking news Jack Silvagni has also re-signed

 

[DougalHoward]

By which metric?

Disposal efficiency

 

[StFly]

Dodoro stepping aside for Matt Rosa after this draft. A sad day indeed

We have a chance, Dodoro sat on the panel that appointed Rosa, we might just be upgrading the dodo to having a dodo holding a flower.

he obviously got paid out for his last year.

22 kicks, 41 handballs as a Demon, must be some sort of payout, maybe they gave him a manicure voucher.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Disposal efficiency

Your mate Dougal has them both covered in that sense

 

[gringo2011]

Everyone knows we need to improve our midfield depth but not by recruiting more ball butchers and turn over merchants. It has to equally be a priority to fix that element of our play. If you've listened to Lyon throughout the year he's made it quite clear where he's sees our deficiencies. Midfield depth and disposal efficiency.

I for one don't want any more players brought to the club who struggle to kick 50 metres and can't hit a pass to a team mate 30-40 metres away. I've seen that story play out for too long now

We are likely bringing in a guy who would be close to the worst kick in the AFL. Dow kicks at about 35% DE in the VFL some weeks. Not sure the coach is as obsessed with good ball use.

Guys like Mathieson would be best 22 at the Saints easily. If he's pushed to depth we have developed some kids really well.

 

[crasha301]

Dodoro stepping aside for Matt Rosa after this draft. A sad day indeed [emoji17]

Very sad indeed. Everyone should put out their dildo's in respect.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Very sad indeed. Everyone should put out their dildo's in respect.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Last time I saw mine Sun Ra was sprinting down Fitzroy St. grasping it very tightly screaming something about something

 

[Nomis2933]

Not sure about that, no player gives a * about their junior team once they get inside the system. Doubt it would be of any interest unless the pay is more or terms are better. If Coff doesn't want to go to Brisbane it will be because moving cities is a pain in the arse, not because he still fetishises the Dogs.

We shall see. I dont profess to be on the inside on this, but I know how strong their allegiances once were as teens. If those two clubs are showing any love, it will quickly be reciprocated.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

 

[Mr_R0b0t]

If we get Dow, Jordon and Henry.

Lose only Billings, Gresham and maybe Coffield to get the deals done.

• I can't see Gresham staying if he wants 800K+
• Billings is of use to other sides and he isn't in our top 22
• Coffield is of use to other sides and he isn't in our top 22

Then I think we will be ahead, have an improved midfield and be ready for another dig at the finals.



Liam Henry can play... this excites me to have someone like this wanting to come to us

One thing I don’t really understand is the term top or best 22 as it is rarely on the field, top or best 26 is more appropriate

 

[Premium]

We shall see. I dont profess to be on the inside on this, but I know how strong their allegiances once were as teens. If those two clubs are showing any love, it will quickly be reciprocated.

We can't worry about who wants out , if they go so be it - it must because the coaches are finally putting some heat on them to perform.
Get the best we can for them and attempt to move up in the draft or find a player that want out of another club that we need.

Everyone I have seen named as could be going really have not cemented there spot in the team , even Gresham was going to be dropped.
I fully expect Henry is already a upgrade on Gresham , no disrespect to Jade but Henry has pace and has good disposal and has picked up over 30 possessions a game which Gresham has never done in 8 years at the club.

However we still need to find a midfielder to help carry the load until Owens , Windhager and Phillipou take over.

I hope they are working on something behind the scenes , we don't need other clubs midfielders if they can't get into there current team - time to get agressive - offer Butters or Rozie million $ contracts - Billings and Gresahms contract would cover it.

Yes I could be dreaming but one of these teams would have one or 2 players wanting out - Merrit (Bombers)or Brayshaw(Dockers)

 

[tomjoad]

It's hard to be excited about someone if their selling point is being better than Bytel.

I agree, but this is where we sit. I suppose that not every trade target needs to set our pulses racing. I think we can all agree though that we need better depth; 22-24 year old guys with a bit of experience in top tier clubs, but overall starved of opportunity, that may still have a little more unrealised potential. They may not be perfect, but they should theoretically offer more than what we've had. It's not a bad thing.
As for us, we need to move on from the guys that have been given every opportunity to reach their potential with our club, but for whatever reason haven't been able to.
I know people have their attachments to players, but I'm frankly over it. The last decade has been a sick and sorry debacle resulting in a team full of timid mediocre lackadaisical hacks on big money (good on them, nice job if you can get it...but f*CK me, enough is enough)
Anything that improves the club by any means is what's important. If that means getting rid of players that either want to leave - because they think they're worth more than what the club believes - or simply just don't make us better...then good...and I don't care if the door hits their arse on the way out, just as long as it nets us improvements through trade, and improved picks at the draft table.
As others have said we've had a year of exploration, and that also entails SOS & Gubby doing their jobs and going over every aspect of our list. The jury is understandably out and I understand the reservations, but so far nothing has happened. It's all madness, but let's hope that there is method within it.

 

[beside the seaside]

I think there's a tendency at trade period to look at a players last game and go "they stink don't want".

I don't know anything about Jordon, but his numbers from last year were pretty good. Maybe he can improve as a player with some continuity? He'll basically come for free.