List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[StCicatriz]

You don’t seem to grasp how precarious our position was when Finnis took over.

We absolutely did not have to leave Moorabbin at all. It was a battle of egos that Archie Fraser failed dismally at. 70 poker machines had to be relocated 200m according to the mad Scot… that’s why he pushed the board to move. Ego.

Access to govt $ to redevelop Linton St was available but Fraser got everyone so off side that we had to scramble to find somewhere else to spend the $ (Frankston then Seaford). That cash could easily have been spent at Moorabbin (although doubtful it would be as grand as it is now).


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This is madness. The rebuild at morrabbin from phase 1 was 80m from memory. It's going well north of 100m.

There is absolutely no way we had the money to fund a redevelopment of moorabbin...

Can you tell me where the money was coming from a complete demo... ground works... rebuild.

What about a training ground when that happened?

It's so far removed from reality it's not funny.

Leaving moorabbin well and truly sucked but I don't know how there was ever going to be a different outcome given the long term neglect.

In the end the short term pain of seaford has set up longer term gain. The AFL and local state government had no choice to step in and we ended up with a far better outcome than even the wildest expectation of morrabbin could have produced.

 

[EddieMurphy]

GC had a fair bit of talent running around today…Holland and Chol likely departing…loved Joel Jeffrey’s game too!

Russells lad, should have been with us morally anyhow

 

[Speck]

I still don't understand how we messed up Seaford that bad, and how it turned out so different to other clubs moving bases.

Essendon train next to the airport in an industrial estate yet no one seems to complain. Hawthorn currently train in Mulgrave and are moving to Dingley on an old tip with nothing around it. Melbourne often train down at Casey.

The move and location was bad, but the marketing of it was even worse.

 

[CursingFijian]

I heard a whisper that we’re strongly interested in acquiring the draft rights to Bailey Rice - likely a future 2nd to Carlton, you would think.

Take it with a grain of salt, though.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Carltons one year offer to Dow puts his trade value about the same as what it cost them to get Acres from Freo.

But given all the late picks that will get eaten up by Academy etc our 4th rounder seems around the mark.

 

[botts]

A token offer some they can get a trade for him. Instead of nothing as a dfa

 

[PoppedCorn]

God damn is that actually some trade talk?
In the trade thread?!

 

[Remboy]

Surely we're offering more than one year and a bigger role

I heard a whisper at training a couple of months ago that Carlton were going to offer him 2 year and if we offered three he was ours. Now that Carlton are only offering one he woukd be a certainty to come if we are happy to give three years.

 

[Remboy]

This is madness. The rebuild at morrabbin from phase 1 was 80m from memory. It's going well north of 100m.

There is absolutely no way we had the money to fund a redevelopment of moorabbin...

Can you tell me where the money was coming from a complete demo... ground works... rebuild.

What about a training ground when that happened?

It's so far removed from reality it's not funny.

Leaving moorabbin well and truly sucked but I don't know how there was ever going to be a different outcome given the long term neglect.

In the end the short term pain of seaford has set up longer term gain. The AFL and local state government had no choice to step in and we ended up with a far better outcome than even the wildest expectation of morrabbin could have produced.

From memory, us getting financing was dependant on moving the pokies to South Rd. Without that, no funding, without funding no Moorabbin redevelopment.

 

[gringo2011]

I wouldn’t trust the AFL to avoid the mistakes they have made in the past. The AFL will want Tasmania to be competitive from the beginning.

It would be prudent to try and get stuck in to the next few drafts, assuming the depth of talent is there. Which means brave and bold decisions.

You can't make them competitive straight away. The AFL aren't as interested as they are in the Northern expansion. Doubt they let the competition take a huge hit for them. Since government money has dried up I'm not even convinced that it won't be pushed back. The Tasmanian people aren't as on board as hoped either.

 

[gringo2011]

An early draftee from a only few years ago and he’s contracted. A pick in the low 30 (late second) is bargain basement.

Presumably there will be interest among clubs. That in itself will push up the trade value.

There is but Carlton seem to be where he wants to go.

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

Gresham struggles to kick over cones.

I struggle to kick over cones as well...partaking in them is a much better option

 

[gringo2011]

I no don’t get this
IF we do the Shiel/Gresham thing we get a 1st round pick
Toce already has delivered…we have form
You’ve said it yourself…
It’s obvious we need to go lateral to improve this list
I think Gresham is absolutely coverable

It's not covering we need. Gresham gets back to his best and stays fit he's an A grade X factor player. People on here have a tendency to only see the last few months.

A first round pick that is taken between 1 and 5 probably has about a 5% chance of being an absolute star, 70% of being good to very good and 90% of playing 100 games. 5 to 10 you are probably at 3/4 of those stats. 10 to 15 and halve it again and 15 to 20 year are getting more speculative again. These is without any actual stats but just as a rough guide. Being a weaker draft would make those stats even worse.

The chances of turning a pick between 15 and 20 into a player as good as Gresham is extremely low. If we went to market to buy the equivalent player in FA we'd probably be paying $800k+ over 3 or 4 years. Jack Martin is probably a similar equivalent.

I'm not sure this is a way to improve the list and has a higher percentage chance of actually making us worse in the long term. We have very few players in Gresham's age range too.

We claimed that we needed to chase Howard, Hill, Butler types because poor drafting had made a huge hole in the age ranges. If we cull this age bracket off we will be back to trading in a bunch of mid career players in a couple of years. Right now we are on a cycle that looks remarkably like the same thing that got us were we are but with a better recruiter. It all looks very Lethlean still.

To me you'd be much better to chase a guy like Hollands than lose Gresham for a pick. This draft doesn't even have many of the types we desperately need.

 

[sammm]

Crows are chasing Chol

So

It would much quicker to name the ones we've come out better from, which is zero from memory.

Back a little further…

Luke Ball (pick 3), AA, club captain, plays 46% of the 09 grand final for 22 disposals, 7 clearances, 7 tackles, 5 inside 50's. Ross Lyon obsessed with spread data doesn't rate him, tells him as much so Ball leaves for nought. You could argue this obstinance costs us a flag, possibly two. Collingwood walk him to the draft with creative contract accmight be betterounting.

Brendon Goddard (pick 1), 2xAA, 200 gamer, bled for the club, takes one of the great marks in grand final history to put us in front. Widely regarded as the next captain, was desperate to stay. Shopped for free agency, we end up with donuts.

Nick Dal Santo (pick 13), 3XAA, 260 gamer, shopped to ******* NORTH MELBOURNE for pick 25 which use for BILLY LONGER.

Ben McEvoy (pick 9), A long term project but still manages 91 games in 5 seasons which is remarkable for a young ruckmen. Wins 2 flags and captains hawthorn plays another 160 games. We turn the picks into Dunstan, a first rounder we end up delisting.

Rhys Stanley (pick 47) A speculative pick on an absolute beast of athlete, was played forward, back ruck for 50 odd games before being flipped to Geelong, wins a premiership still playing good football. Hugh Goddard makes up the second 'twin towers for a decade'… is delisted after 10 games in 4 years.

Tom Hickey - traded in using pick 13. Battles is out for #1 ruck for Longer, is considered a bit soft and inferior to Billy in the hitout department despite being a vastly better player overall. We flip him to west coast for a bag of poo to free up salary for Dan Hannebery. He moves again and plays some excellent football helping the swans reach a GF

Blake Acres (pick 19) A goofy campaigner, oversized laconic mutant wingmen. A fan favourite affectionately referred to as GOAT, his development is crippled by positional changes but still manages some elite games in his 75 with us, yet is thrown into the Hill deal as part of a dick measuring contest, plays some good football for freo who then flip him to chase other players, freo subsequently tank and Acres helps Carlton win two finals. As suggested at the time of trade, he's playing better football than the player we got using 4 picks and Acres.

Dunstan, Newnes, Hind, Stevens, Bruce, Long never really kicked on at new homes so I won't lose sleep there.

This ^ is our track record so as Gringo mentions, the likelihood of finding a better player than Gresham with the compo pick is very low, particularly in a shallow draft. It's happening though so fingers crossed we don't flush another good player for zero return.

I'm sure people will point out any errors in there or blame the exiting players instead of the club.

why don't we check it against other clubs. i am sure its just as bad at other clubs, where 2nd time running, the players might be better.

 

[gringo2011]

I hope he doesn't decide to stay. We could struggle to put up 3 midfielders some weeks.

 

[gringo2011]

I still don't understand how we messed up Seaford that bad, and how it turned out so different to other clubs moving bases.

Essendon train next to the airport in an industrial estate yet no one seems to complain. Hawthorn currently train in Mulgrave and are moving to Dingley on an old tip with nothing around it. Melbourne often train down at Casey.

The move and location was bad, but the marketing of it was even worse.

It was such a half arsed effort. It looked like a toilet block in the outer suburbs. Hard to find, hard to park...literally the worst spot they could have found.

 

[Sun Ra]

Correct

Surely this is an advantage for us. Don't think any other club presidents have a brother on the AFL commission ?

 

[sammm]

Very unlucky. There are always a pile of VFL players that are so unlucky to not be on a list. I'd keep a few spots open every year to give a few a run and churn through them. Gold Coast's VFL side is so stacked it's insane. They'd beat West Coast based on this season.

The best VFL guys would have to be worth more than speculating on some guys that you're not quite sure on in the later stages of the draft.

Mannaugh has had 24 disposals and 5.2 against a star studded Gold Coast 10 minutes into the last quarter. I reckon Ross and Sos can hit the pub now. He's done enough to convince anyone.

and probably convince another 10 clubs besides us.

 

[sammm]

We never had to do anything.
Fraser tried to be the big ******* man on campus against a local council of all things. We moved purely because of 88 ******* God forsaken pokies.

And then to make Kingston Council jealous he moved us to bum* nowhere in Seaford.

And it was only half a move as the Social Club still stayed at Linton St. Because of the Pokies.

The council was stubborn but Archie Fraser blinked first and we suffered for it.

and then when the AGM occured and Arxcie and told us this, most if not all agreed with it. noone said anything.

 

[Joffaboy]

This is madness. The rebuild at morrabbin from phase 1 was 80m from memory. It's going well north of 100m.

There is absolutely no way we had the money to fund a redevelopment of moorabbin...

Can you tell me where the money was coming from a complete demo... ground works... rebuild.

What about a training ground when that happened?

It's so far removed from reality it's not funny.

Leaving moorabbin well and truly sucked but I don't know how there was ever going to be a different outcome given the long term neglect.

In the end the short term pain of seaford has set up longer term gain. The AFL and local state government had no choice to step in and we ended up with a far better outcome than even the wildest expectation of morrabbin could have produced.

One thing that True Believer mentioned in his historical context post was that there was a councillor called Topsy who hated the football club, instigated a group of cranks to plant trees on the field next to Linton St, and block the movement of the poker machines.

Saints move councils to Seaford. Years go by and the Topsy idiot and her minions are gone from council and Bayside realise the absolute boon having an AFL club in the area is and welcome back STKFC to Linton St with open arms.

Finnis was the driver for this, he was the driver for the reconstruction and he was key stakerholder from the STKFC who presented to the business case and cost benefit analysis to the council and the AFL. He procured funding from the AFL and with AFL backing.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

This is madness. The rebuild at morrabbin from phase 1 was 80m from memory. It's going well north of 100m.

There is absolutely no way we had the money to fund a redevelopment of moorabbin...

Can you tell me where the money was coming from a complete demo... ground works... rebuild.

What about a training ground when that happened?

It's so far removed from reality it's not funny.

Leaving moorabbin well and truly sucked but I don't know how there was ever going to be a different outcome given the long term neglect.

In the end the short term pain of seaford has set up longer term gain. The AFL and local state government had no choice to step in and we ended up with a far better outcome than even the wildest expectation of morrabbin could have produced.

Ok mate. You know better.


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[L_W_P]

I hope Zak Jones

3

Zak Jones

Age

30

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.1

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.1

4star

CL

4.9

5star

D

7.0

2star

K

2.8

1star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.6

4star

CL

1.0

3star

can get fit and find his way back into the team, if only so that we can call our midfield "The Dow Jones Index"

I'll show myself out...

 

[BrutThough]

The entire Moorabbin complex is one of the best things the club has ever produced.

Everyone involved in its creation deserve a huge amount of kudos for the magnificent job they did.

 

[Joffaboy]

Surely this is an advantage for us. Don't think any other club presidents have a brother on the AFL commission ?

CEO of the AFL was a Saints supporter, how much of an advantage did we get from them. Example Ben King was done after two years at Fold Coast, had told them he wanted a trade to the Saints, AFL stepped in and gave him 150k a year for three years on top of his contract as 'Ambassador Money'
Yeah great help having the bloke ruinning the AFL sabotaging our trading.

 

[Joffaboy]

I hope Zak Jones can get fit and find his way back into the team, if only so that we can call our midfield "The Dow Jones Index"

I'll show myself out...

Reckon they will turn out to be the 'All Ordinaries' - boom tish, beat you on the dad jokes.