List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[botts]

CEO of the AFL was a Saints supporter, how much of an advantage did we get from them. Example Ben King was done after two years at Fold Coast, had told them he wanted a trade to the Saints, AFL stepped in and gave him 150k a year for three years on top of his contract as 'Ambassador Money'
Yeah great help having the bloke ruinning the AFL sabotaging our trading.

Reckon they will turn out to be the 'All Ordinaries' - boom tish, beat you on the dad jokes.

There is a Nasdaq joke there somewhere. Just can’t work it out. I got the nas bit so far.

 

[saintmike65]

I hope he doesn't decide to stay. We could struggle to put up 3 midfielders some weeks.

Not exactly a vote of confidence offering one year, that’s normally reserved for 30 plus year olds & injury prone players…Dow is neither!

 

[jimmytigs]

Not exactly a vote of confidence offering one year, that’s normally reserved for 30 plus year olds & injury prone players…Dow is neither!

i think its french for"thanks for your efforts and good luck in your future endeavors"

 

[L_W_P]

There is a Nasdaq joke there somewhere. Just can’t work it out. I got the nas bit so far.

When Wanganeen-Milera lays a tackle his opponent gets"Naz Dacked"

 

[BrutThough]

Not exactly a vote of confidence offering one year, that’s normally reserved for 30 plus year olds & injury prone players…Dow is neither!

It's a 'we know you're leaving but we want a pity pick back in return' offer.

 

[pebblesofsand]

From memory, us getting financing was dependant on moving the pokies to South Rd. Without that, no funding, without funding no Moorabbin redevelopment.

It was a stuff up all round.

Council actually approved the move of the pokies to South Rd but also said that when the formal application went to the Gaming Commission, they'd make a submission approving the move but also wanting a reduction in the numbers.

I can't remember how big a reduction they wanted but I think both parties then backed themselves into respective corners and the rest was history.

Stubborness and not wanting to lose face - not the most admirable human traits.

 

[#gosaintas]

It was a stuff up all round.

Council actually approved the move of the pokies to South Rd but also said that when the formal application went to the Gaming Commission, they'd make a submission approving the move but also wanting a reduction in the numbers.

I can't remember how big a reduction they wanted but I think both parties then backed themselves into respective corners and the rest was history.

Stubborness and not wanting to lose face - not the most admirable human traits.

from memory it was a reduction of 4 machines

 

[Jayman15]

You can't make them competitive straight away. The AFL aren't as interested as they are in the Northern expansion. Doubt they let the competition take a huge hit for them. Since government money has dried up I'm not even convinced that it won't be pushed back. The Tasmanian people aren't as on board as hoped either.

The AFL will try and have Tassie competitive early… less drain on the competition longer-term. Grant O’Brien (Tas chairman) has seen firsthand how GWS setup with experienced bodies early so wants us to follow a similar path, albeit I agree Tas won’t have anywhere near as extensive draft concessions as GWS/GC had but greater access to FA market.

Tas football has being on a downward spiral for a period now but at least they’re investing in young kids. We’re already handpicking 12yo youngsters with promise and sticking them into 3 night development programs.

 

[bird_man]

Carltons one year offer to Dow puts his trade value about the same as what it cost them to get Acres from Freo.

But given all the late picks that will get eaten up by Academy etc our 4th rounder seems around the marmark

Acres was at least getting a regular game at Freo

 

[CaptainRisky]

Any chance people stop high jacking this thread, take your Moorabbin pokies elsewhere

 

[kernelT]

Dow lured with 3 years, got a bit of Dean Kent

25

Dean Kent

Age

31

Ht

181cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

10.4

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.0

4star

G

1.2

5star

D

7.6

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.0

5star

G

0.6

3star

about it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's not covering we need. Gresham gets back to his best and stays fit he's an A grade X factor player. People on here have a tendency to only see the last few months.

A first round pick that is taken between 1 and 5 probably has about a 5% chance of being an absolute star, 70% of being good to very good and 90% of playing 100 games. 5 to 10 you are probably at 3/4 of those stats. 10 to 15 and halve it again and 15 to 20 year are getting more speculative again. These is without any actual stats but just as a rough guide. Being a weaker draft would make those stats even worse.

The chances of turning a pick between 15 and 20 into a player as good as Gresham is extremely low. If we went to market to buy the equivalent player in FA we'd probably be paying $800k+ over 3 or 4 years. Jack Martin is probably a similar equivalent.

I'm not sure this is a way to improve the list and has a higher percentage chance of actually making us worse in the long term. We have very few players in Gresham's age range too.

We claimed that we needed to chase Howard, Hill, Butler types because poor drafting had made a huge hole in the age ranges. If we cull this age bracket off we will be back to trading in a bunch of mid career players in a couple of years. Right now we are on a cycle that looks remarkably like the same thing that got us were we are but with a better recruiter. It all looks very Lethlean still.

To me you'd be much better to chase a guy like Hollands than lose Gresham for a pick. This draft doesn't even have many of the types we desperately need.

That's what i think. Find the talent , get them to come to the Saints , THEN Get rid of others if you need the cap space.
Keep reading things here which have the vibe of...
" He's been no good this year, we should trade him ". WRONG He's been no good , so he's not worth much, lets get him back to where he was ".
" I was all for trading XXX , but now he's playing good footy". THEN it might be the best time to trade him.

No-one wants the old crap you sit on the nature strip and they'll take it for free if they got stoned enough to want it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Dow lured with 3 years, got a bit of Dean Kent about it.

Hopefully he's a bit more resilient than Kent was. Kent wasn't the worst depth player, but he was hardly available ( Like Dan and Zac )

 

[SaintsSeptember]

When Wanganeen-Milera lays a tackle his opponent gets"Naz Dacked"

Generally refer to the midfield as "Dow-Jones and the All Ordinaries "

 

[kernelT]

Hopefully he's a bit more resilient than Kent was. Kent wasn't the worst depth player, but he was hardly available ( Like Dan and Zac )

He wasn’t bad depth but was on decent money vs his output. I’d rather we roll the dice on more kids or cheap state league players than add list cloggers on 400k

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He wasn’t bad depth but was on decent money vs his output. I’d rather we roll the dice on more kids or cheap state league players than add list cloggers on 400k

Paddy Dow is 23.
At worst he can be another Dunstan.
If he's a bit quicker he can do a tagging role.
If he can tidy up his disposal he can be a good midfield extractor type.

 

[gringo2011]

Dow lured with 3 years, got a bit of Dean Kent about it.

He's either going to be an inspired pick-up or a list clogger. Everyone has been blowing their load about him recently but he's still a pretty low production blind bomber. If we can get him into Lyon's system and make him work he could be perfect but has a bit of Zac Jones about him.

We need ready to play mids desperately so we can't be too picky and he's definitely not the worst gamble considering that he'll come pretty cheap.

 

[gringo2011]

Paddy Dow is 23.
At worst he can be another Dunstan.
If he's a bit quicker he can do a tagging role.
If he can tidy up his disposal he can be a good midfield extractor type.

I think his best role is an inside extractor in the Jack Steven mould. Hits the ball moving and emerges with it. He's a horrible kick so if he can get it on the outside to the wings/HBs we can use him to full advantage. He's similar to how Zac Jones played in 2020 as that dynamic tempo mid. Maybe how Gresham played last year as well.

 

[Remboy]

I think his best role is an inside extractor in the Jack Steven mould. Hits the ball moving and emerges with it. He's a horrible kick so if he can get it on the outside to the wings/HBs we can use him to full advantage. He's similar to how Zac Jones played in 2020 as that dynamic tempo mid. Maybe how Gresham played last year as well.

If he can find the ball and get it out to Hill and Henry, we’ll look a lot better. Just need to play him to his strengths.
Dow is probably another one who struggles because he was a high draft pick so the expectations are higher. If we get him for a late third/fourth he won’t have the same issue at StKilda. Much like Stocker.

 

[gringo2011]

If he can find the ball and get it out to Hill and Henry, we’ll look a lot better. Just need to play him to his strengths.
Dow is probably another one who struggles because he was a high draft pick so the expectations are higher. If we get him for a late third/fourth he won’t have the same issue at StKilda. Much like Stocker.

Like any midfielder there is only so many opportunities for touches and in a side with multiple inside bulls he was probably unable to get as much of it. Perhaps with less around him his production will go up and if we dish it out he could be ideal. Lyon loves guys who can run because they can cover more ground in his press. He's never been into one position inside plodders. He's definitely worth a gamble on.

 

[kernelT]

At least he's a genuine mid, you just don't want too many 400k players running around in the VFL or perpetually re-habbing.

Jones, Coffield, Clark, Billings, Membrey, Allison, McKenzie, Paton. Fair bit of cash for a handful of games in that lot.

 

[gringo2011]

That's what i think. Find the talent , get them to come to the Saints , THEN Get rid of others if you need the cap space.
Keep reading things here which have the vibe of...
" He's been no good this year, we should trade him ". WRONG He's been no good , so he's not worth much, lets get him back to where he was ".
" I was all for trading XXX , but now he's playing good footy". THEN it might be the best time to trade him.

No-one wants the old crap you sit on the nature strip and they'll take it for free if they got stoned enough to want it.

There is a lot of wanting to punish players who disappoint us too. Billings is a good player but not exceptional. He's exactly like an Aish type who was picked too high for his output but if we'd paid a pick in the 20s or 30s for him no-one would even care that he's just a solid middler.

Good sides have about 8 to 10 Billings types who are vanilla in the cake more than flour or eggs.

Gresham seems to have fallen out of favour for not becoming a superstar when that looked like his trajectory early on. Our impatience seems to have intensified recently and we are quicker to turn on players than ever before. String 5 poor games together and people wanted them delisted. Like cutting your feet off when you get a blister.

 

[kernelT]

If he can find the ball and get it out to Hill and Henry, we’ll look a lot better. Just need to play him to his strengths.
Dow is probably another one who struggles because he was a high draft pick so the expectations are higher. If we get him for a late third/fourth he won’t have the same issue at StKilda. Much like Stocker.

I don't know if Henry is going to be a kicking weapon like Nas, Hill & Sinclair. Dockers fans lament his turnovers a bit. I'm just hoping we walk away if Fremantle get silly with the asking price, any more than a 2nd rounder and we're get bell-ended again.

 

[gringo2011]

At least he's a genuine mid, you just don't want too many 400k players running around in the VFL or perpetually re-habbing.

Jones, Coffield, Clark, Billings, Membrey, Allison, McKenzie, Paton. Fair bit of cash for a handful of games in that lot.

Yeah, that said you phase a few out that can't get through injury or want out and you haven't overpaid a few young players and have to move them on. Acres seemed to be dumped because we didn't want to pay him $650k because we needed it for Hill. Same as what happened when Freo wanted to pay Luke Jackson a million a year. Most players don't want a hair cut unless they are shit and no-one else wats them.

 

[gringo2011]

I don't know if Henry is going to be a kicking weapon like Nas, Hill & Sinclair. Dockers fans lament his turnovers a bit. I'm just hoping we walk away if Fremantle get silly with the asking price, any more than a 2nd rounder and we're get bell-ended again.

Yeah, his field kicking looks a bit scatter-gun. Might be composure that will come with age and experience though.