List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[mighty_lions]

Imagine being afraid of a team that has never made finals.

GWS and GC have been one step away from a 10yr dynasty for 10 years.

hairy Garry has obsession with academies tried to make out couple of weeks ago he didn't know much about them, but spent 20 minutes bringing it up to tell everyone

if hairy Garry wants equality, we share around grand final day, Anzac Day, dreamtime, gather round and Melbourne clubs do more travelling

 

[briztoon]

I don't think this is as big a link as you claim though.

Not sure if you are missing the point.

The majority of the elite kids come from families that already are AFL families.

Our academy isn’t pulling in many talented kids from other sports or kids saying they want to play AFL from elsewhere.

Gold Coast has been putting in a lot of effort in getting AFL in to schools, where the sport becomes an option for kids from any background.

I'd done stats on the overall numbers coming out, which have undoubtedly increased over the years of the academy.

I wasn’t talking about the numbers coming out. Just whether the kids who do make it come from an AFL family or not.

Jake Rogers is on Fox right now, talking about how his family is originally from Vic.

There's always been families in Queensland with Victorian links. From memory Voss's family moved up from Victoria. Aker too. Riewoldt came from Tassie. The elite always made it, but the next level weren't anywhere to be seen. Now we're seeing quantity more in line with what we should be producing - regardless of where they moved from. Focusing on those links is ignoring the actual shift we've seen.

 

[dlanod]

Not sure if you are missing the point.

The majority of the elite kids come from families that already are AFL families.

Our academy isn’t pulling in many talented kids from other sports or kids saying they want to play AFL from elsewhere.

Gold Coast has been putting in a lot of effort in getting AFL in to schools, where the sport becomes an option for kids from any background.

I wasn’t talking about the numbers coming out. Just whether the kids who do make it come from an AFL family or not.

Jake Rogers is on Fox right now, talking about how his family is originally from Vic.

I don't believe I'm missing the point - this was your original exchange:

Without us funding and running the academies many of these prospects don’t exist in the AFL system. It is unreasonably to expect us to fund and run academies for no benefit and even worse to the benefit of our competitors.

I’ll argue this is actually a fallacy.

The vast majority of successful academy graduates come from families that moved from Victoria/SA/WA, or come from local QAFL hardcore families, many of whom are very active with their QAFL club.

I researched this for both the Suns and Lions academy back around 2018.

These kids weren't making it to the AFL system before the academy. That's true, it's reflected in the number of draftees, and what Elixuh originally said. You claimed it's a fallacy because academy kids come from southern immigrants, but those kids were only making it to QAFL, etc, level or switching to league or just dropping out for the better part of a decade or two. It's not like the increase in Qld draftees can be ascribed to immigration because the number of Victorian families in Queensland hasn't spiked significantly until about 2020 with the COVID lockdowns, which is too recent to be reflected in our academy - there's always been a fairly consistent immigration northwards.

 

[Elixuh]

I don't believe I'm missing the point - this was your original exchange:



These kids weren't making it to the AFL system before the academy. That's true, it's reflected in the number of draftees, and what Elixuh originally said. You claimed it's a fallacy because academy kids come from southern immigrants, but those kids were only making it to QAFL, etc, level or switching to league or just dropping out for the better part of a decade or two. It's not like the increase in Qld draftees can be ascribed to immigration because the number of Victorian families in Queensland hasn't spiked significantly until about 2020 with the COVID lockdowns, which is too recent to be reflected in our academy - there's always been a fairly consistent immigration northwards.

I know one of our academy graduates and his family and there is next to zero chance he would have been drafted but for the fact he had been in our academy for many years prior to being drafted.

 

[Nunez]

I know one of our academy graduates and his family and there is next to zero chance he would have been drafted but for the fact he had been in our academy for many years prior to being drafted.

 

[rye]

I actually don’t have a problem with that. If you are a top 8 team, getting access to a top 5 prospect, it’s an unfair double whammy for bottom teams.

They don’t have access to a top rated kid, plus it sees a good team getting better and potentially extending their ability to remain at the top.

And if your are a good team with a production line of good players, and able to pick up kids far above your draft position across multiple rounds, that’s genuinely against competition balance.


Nor should we be complaining about access to “our kids”, while then complaining about Vic teams wanting to bring “their kids” home.

been reading the norf board?

 

[The Flying Belgian]

briztoon just want more draft & trding

 

[Elixuh]

 

[Nunez]

I need a second opinion.

Donald Trump

 

[M Malice]

I need a second opinion.

Donald Trump

 

[briztoon]

I don't believe I'm missing the point - this was your original exchange:



These kids weren't making it to the AFL system before the academy. That's true, it's reflected in the number of draftees, and what Elixuh originally said. You claimed it's a fallacy because academy kids come from southern immigrants, but those kids were only making it to QAFL, etc, level or switching to league or just dropping out for the better part of a decade or two. It's not like the increase in Qld draftees can be ascribed to immigration because the number of Victorian families in Queensland hasn't spiked significantly until about 2020 with the COVID lockdowns, which is too recent to be reflected in our academy - there's always been a fairly consistent immigration northwards.

QLD was producing kids before the academy existed.

Beams, Zorko, Riewoldt, and I’m sure there’s more that I don’t know, because I’ve only been around since 2013. Someone else mentioned Voss.

Ben Keays, Jack Bowes, Jasper Fletcher, were all coached by their dads.

I’m sure they all would have made the State rep teams wether the academies existed or not.

QLD has had positive migration numbers for as long as I can remember. Numbers fluctuate.

A quick google search shows in the early 00’s, we experienced between 20,000 to 30,000+ each year.

3412.0 - Migration, Australia, 2011-12 and 2012-13

www.abs.gov.au

The fallacy I was talking about, is that our academy is growing the game in QLD, i.e attracting new kids to the sport.

My assertion is that this is not the case, because most of the kids making it to the AFL already come from a footy background.

And most of the successful kids up here come from families that migrated from WA or VIC when they were kids. That’s actually a fact. As I said, the only two I couldn’t find their birth state for, were Ballenden and Payne.

 

[briztoon]

briztoon just want more draft & trding

Honestly, I’d rather we win a flag or three, but in lieu of…

 

[rye]

QLD was producing kids before the academy existed.

Beams, Zorko, Riewoldt, and I’m sure there’s more that I don’t know, because I’ve only been around since 2013. Someone else mentioned Voss.

Ben Keays, Jack Bowes, Jasper Fletcher, were all coached by their dads.

I’m sure they all would have made the State rep teams wether the academies existed or not.

QLD has had positive migration numbers for as long as I can remember. Numbers fluctuate.

A quick google search shows in the early 00’s, we experienced between 20,000 to 30,000+ each year.

3412.0 - Migration, Australia, 2011-12 and 2012-13

www.abs.gov.au

The fallacy I was talking about, is that our academy is growing the game in QLD, i.e attracting new kids to the sport.

My assertion is that this is not the case, because most of the kids making it to the AFL already come from a footy background.

And most of the successful kids up here come from families that migrated from WA or VIC when they were kids. That’s actually a fact. As I said, the only two I couldn’t find their birth state for, were Ballenden and Payne.

think its pretty easy to make an argument that a lack of a true professional pathway into AFL may have been the reason zorko went undrafted as an 18 year old... on talent he is easily a top 10 pick in his draft year and one of the best queensland football talents of all time yet was passed over in multiple drafts

and i think your method of analysing whether the academies are contributing to growing the game at grassroots level in queensland is poor. most kids who go on to become professional athletes have a strong push from their parents to do so. it would makes sense that many of them have parents who are invested in AFL. this does not capture how the academies may contribute to things that are difficult to measure such as retaining interest in local clubs and growing TV audiences. its about gradually increasing market share through providing a valid pathway to the elite level which should increase interest and participation in the sport at all levels. i think the popularity of aflw in queensland may in part be a testimony to this.

 

[briztoon]

been reading the norf board?

lol, no. I rarely venture there. The chip on the shoulder there is a bit much for me to handle.

 

[rye]

lol, no. I rarely venture there. The chip on the shoulder there is a bit much for me to handle.

fwiw they want all academies abolished because theyre still crying over blakey choosing sydney over them

 

[Denno]

I would like to see the evidence of a Northern Club that is flat out unbeatable due to their Academy talent.
It’s an over reaction from the big VIC clubs because of GC draft last year.
And any rise of the Suns may, just guessing, be partially because of the countless first round talent that they already have on their list via other AFL handouts and from being so s**t for so long.

Also no different the GWS scaring the s**t out of the competition many years ago due to their academy borders and the VIC Clubs and media crying about it until a change was made.

Started before that, didn't it ? Wasn't there changes (bidding system?) after Sydney got Heeney and Mills in successive drafts?

Typical pro-Vic, myopic view. Get sick of reading of players wanting to "come home", like it's a right of passage. NGA's are a joke too (which were another knee-jerk reaction to appease the Vic clubs).

I'm really hoping, in time, as someone else here may have mentioned, that Damien Hardwick makes some noise at some point about the local challenges. Might just get people to sit up and think.

 

[McIvor]

Imagine being afraid of a team that has never made finals.

GWS and GC have been one step away from a 10yr dynasty for 10 years.

Sounds like a scene from Usual Suspects and the Suns are Keyser Soze.

 

[M Malice]

QLD was producing kids before the academy existed.

Beams, Zorko, Riewoldt, and I’m sure there’s more that I don’t know, because I’ve only been around since 2013. Someone else mentioned Voss.

Ben Keays, Jack Bowes, Jasper Fletcher, were all coached by their dads.

I’m sure they all would have made the State rep teams wether the academies existed or not.

QLD has had positive migration numbers for as long as I can remember. Numbers fluctuate.

A quick google search shows in the early 00’s, we experienced between 20,000 to 30,000+ each year.

3412.0 - Migration, Australia, 2011-12 and 2012-13

www.abs.gov.au

The fallacy I was talking about, is that our academy is growing the game in QLD, i.e attracting new kids to the sport.

My assertion is that this is not the case, because most of the kids making it to the AFL already come from a footy background.

And most of the successful kids up here come from families that migrated from WA or VIC when they were kids. That’s actually a fact. As I said, the only two I couldn’t find their birth state for, were Ballenden and Payne.

eg. Former Coorparoo legend Jason Dunstall.

 

[McIvor]

eg. Former Coorparoo legend Jason Dunstall.

A story I’d never heard before until recently was that Dunstall tried out at Fitzroy along with Scott McIvor. A Fitzroy official apparently said we’ll keep the skinny one (McIvor) and the fat one (Dunstall) can go. Geez, and this is an extraordinarily long bow perhaps, but if Dunstall had have been kept by, just maybe Fitzroy would still be in existence today. But then again, maybe without those great Hawks players of that generation contributing to Dunstalls success, he doesn’t become the legend he became.

 

[martinson]

A story I’d never heard before until recently was that Dunstall tried out at Fitzroy along with Scott McIvor. A Fitzroy official apparently said we’ll keep the skinny one (McIvor) and the fat one (Dunstall) can go. Geez, and this is an extraordinarily long bow perhaps, but if Dunstall had have been kept by, just maybe Fitzroy would still be in existence today. But then again, maybe without those great Hawks players of that generation contributing to Dunstalls success, he doesn’t become the legend he became.

It's true.

 

[Viceregal]

get used to multiple Grand Finals featuring the Giants and Suns....

Wasn't this supposed to happen a decade ago ... good to know that they can reuse the same predictions when they didn't come true the first time ... actually if they end up completely failing as sports journalists (cough) they have enough of a track record of failure to be economomists, apocolyptic preachers, or climate 'scientists'!

 

[AFLQLD]

Good news that Shadeau is locked in for a couple more years! Sometimes the unheralded signings end up being the important ones further down the road.

 

[scoman]

Good news that Shadeau is locked in for a couple more years! Sometimes the unheralded signings end up being the important ones further down the road.

Indeed. Just got to find a way to get him into the team.

 

[briztoon]

think its pretty easy to make an argument that a lack of a true professional pathway into AFL may have been the reason zorko went undrafted as an 18 year old... on talent he is easily a top 10 pick in his draft year and one of the best queensland football talents of all time yet was passed over in multiple drafts

and i think your method of analysing whether the academies are contributing to growing the game at grassroots level in queensland is poor. most kids who go on to become professional athletes have a strong push from their parents to do so. it would makes sense that many of them have parents who are invested in AFL. this does not capture how the academies may contribute to things that are difficult to measure such as retaining interest in local clubs and growing TV audiences. its about gradually increasing market share through providing a valid pathway to the elite level which should increase interest and participation in the sport at all levels. i think the popularity of aflw in queensland may in part be a testimony to this.

I haven’t mentioned anything about grass roots football, and that’s certainly not a role for the academy.

Grass roots football feeds in to club football and local league football.

If you were to jump on to the QLD Football forum on BigFooty, and jump in to the QAFL thread, you’d experience a pretty big backlash about our academy.

Most posters there blame our academy for an increased drop out rate of kids between colts and reserve/league football.

And most of the posters there are QAFL club presidents, ex-presidents, board members, coaches, colts coaches, etc. they’re all involved in local footy, and to a man believe the academies have a negative impact on retention rates post Colts football.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Pike’s Falcons teammate Liam Kershaw started strongly and showcased his elite ball-use on the outside, going at 83 per cent efficiency from his 18 disposals, and also tallying eight marks, five inside 50s and five tackles.

Kershaw was among the players to catch the eye of Vic Country’s coach Paul Corrigan, who is also the coach of the Falcons, having seen him excel first-hand in his over-age campaign.

“I thought Kershaw was really good on the wing, I thought he just played his wing really well – pretty similar to what he does at Coates League at the Falcons for us in holding his channel,” Corrigan said.

“He was covering exits really well, he was also getting a lot of ball in hand, holding his width as well which was impressive.”

Sandringham Zebras wingman Tarkyn O’Leary and Eastern Ranges forward-wingman Ry Cantwell also kicked two majors, with O’Leary hitting the target with 13 of his 16 disposals.

Couple of interesting prospects who performed well at the Young Guns vs Vic Country game, if we're chasing an outside player with kicking skills.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/draft/afl-draft-2024-top-performers-from-young-guns-clash-against-vic-country/news-story/9b61dfb8ed08e1d36a363c5e06eaca3e