List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[Sab22]

I miss when this board was sweating balls over Nas, and now everyone is back to arguing with each other

 

[stfan]

We’re already getting a second round pick for free in Fincher this year so the net loss for those 3 players will literally be ~second round pick

Fincher is in our NGA, so we do not get for free unless his name is not called, or is called only very late when there is no points cost.

If another Club uses say a second round pick on him, Saints can match and get him at a discount, but that is not for free.

 

[botts]

He mentioned him abit the other night in agenda setters and windy was quoted yesterday as saying a deal should hopefully be done soon

What did windy mention that on

 

[gringo2011]

Careful mate, a lot of these negative campaigners will also think the moon landing didn't happen

Ironically being negative and shitting up the forum.

 

[bergholt]

Another bit of evidence to question whether St Kilda "knows what they are doing".


Are we trying to break an AFL record for having the highest number of overpaid guys on one team?

Or the highest percentage of a salary cap taken up by new signings? TDK, Aleer and Ryan, say $3.0 - $3.5mil between them?

I get that we have banked cap for 2026 and 2027, but these deals go into 2028, 2029, and in some cases longer.

Meanwhile we offer Windy 2 years.

Sorry for being a wet blanket but my enthusiasm about Nas is souring by the hour.

We won't maximise his potential long-term, and leverage his elite ability into building a successful team around him if we don't make wise decisions around list management and salary cap.

There's more money than you think.






Total salary cap for next year (including ASA) is $19,560,498. We can spend up to 105% of that which is $20,538,523.

Last year we paid 95% of a much lower number, in total $16,202,749.

This year 95% of a lower number, in total $18,077,837.

So compared to last year, there's basically $4.35m extra to spend next year; compared to this year $2.46m extra.


Average player salary next year will be about $500k. If you have Nas on $2m, that means you need about 4 new draftees on $150k to cancel out his wage.

We have a bunch of youngish players on below or well below average: Barrat, Boxshall, Dodson, Said, Hastie, Garcia, Schoenmaker, Collard, Keeler, Caminiti, Carroll, Heath, Byrnes, Boyd, Dow, etc. And a few older players on smaller and smaller contracts: Webster, Hill, Wood, Jones, Howard, Butler.

In fact, we benefit because we don't have many in the middle band. Those are the guys - on $600k or $700k or $800k - who take up most of the cap. We don't have many there which is what has made it hard for us to hit the cap floor, and makes it relatively easy for us to make this work.


Look, I'm sure there's some maths for SOS to do here. We probably lose guys like Butler, Webster, Jones, Howard a little before their time. Maybe Marshall or Steele go too. But realistically they weren't part of the next serious Saints team anyway.

I don't think it's as bad as you think it is.

 

[thekizzler]

Not at all.

If you've been following this thread I've been arguing against TDK all year.

It's precisely because we've signed Nas that it becomes even more crucial to get everything else right.

St Kilda's future is looking bright for the next 2 years - but we need to consider the next 5, 6 years to maximise the chances of keeping him into another deal. We want to put ourselves in a position to utilize him effectively over his prime, and sell a future where he'll want to play his prime at Moorabbin.

Signing a nearly 29-year-old small forward for 4 years when it's already one of the most clogged positions on our list, and offering a backman $900k a year when he's played 22 games, are simply not smart moves.

I'm not sold on Ryan, the money or the length, but our small forward position is not clogged with quality. So I don't see an issue with pursuing hopefully 30-40 goals in that area.

Higgo has kicked 46 goals. Next best small forward is Hall with 21, who is likely moving up the ground and then Butler with seven. That's an area we could use some more goals in. So like your ruck plan, I would argue your small forward assessment isn't great either.

As for Aleer, who knows what he has been offered, but latest reports have been 600k, not 900k. Believe what you want to believe. The media is struggling at the moment. But the 900k is really not a great basis for an argument either.

 

[kernelT]

Irony is Naz taking all the money leaving none for his best mate Windy.

Reality is that Byrnes, Jones & Dow would have made up a similar figure to Nas salary.

Webster, Hill, Macrae, SInclair, Howard, Butler, Cordy, Clark all or most on the cusp of winding up or being cut in the next couple of years

There's plenty of money to go around judging by the TDK & Aleer offers.

 

[akaifu]

Fincher is in our NGA, so we do not get for free unless his name is not called, or is called only very late when there is no points cost.

If another Club uses say a second round pick on him, Saints can much and get him at a discount, but that is not for free.

Free was meant to be hyperbolic - I meant very cheap

But in the scenario he goes beyond pick 36, we only need a pick to match him, whether its pick 37 or pick 364

 

[akaifu]

I miss when this board was sweating balls over Nas, and now everyone is back to arguing with each other

Everyone was already arguing with each other about Nas lmao

 

[gringo2011]

I guess the point is why are you choosing to be negative less than 48 hours after the happiest news since, well, forever.
Using inaccurate stats/figures to bolster your negativity all the while.

Horrible way to exist.

Stop arguing about it and it gets shuffled down into obscurity. Who cares if he’s got a different opinion. I’m still in relief mode and need time to get my rage going again but each to their own.

 

[phantom13]

I personally (as in if it was my unilateral decision) wouldnt go for TDK either given what we have in hand and coming through but i also respect what he represents and the list management strategy.

Aleer is fine provided were not paying the world for him.

Ryan i dont really get in any capacity. That one does seem odd to me.

Provided we keep Windy and Nas is staying the rest doesnt really bother me one way or the other.

 

[stfan]

Pay Windy his worth

Most of us agree with this.

and stop trying to shaft the players who we should be loyal to.

However at present (well at least a fortnight ago anyway) his manager wants more than his worth, and so it appears that you are advocating to pay him what his manager wants, and not what he is worth.


PS> My guess is that Windy will stay on more than his first offer (We had already upped anyway ) and maybe more than our second offer, but not as much as what he wants.

 

[kernelT]

Stop arguing about it and it gets shuffled down into obscurity. Who cares if he’s got a different opinion. I’m still in relief mode and need time to get my rage going again but each to their own.

How bout' that Max King contract ?

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I would argue we have precisely 0 smalls who are good overhead and can inject speed/goal nous/midfield speed.

As a collective our list are poor marks and are constantly out marked in contests, excluding a couple of individuals.

 

[thekizzler]

Stop arguing about it and it gets shuffled down into obscurity. Who cares if he’s got a different opinion. I’m still in relief mode and need time to get my rage going again but each to their own.

Different opinions are fine but when they have so many flaws pointed out in them, they become irrelevant and lose credibility.

 

[Sab22]

Everyone was already arguing with each other about Nas lmao

I only remember arguing with the misso who accused of me having an affair bcos i was on my phone too much but the whole time i was checking BF day in day out for any Nas update

 

[PJays]

Well, I have no interest in debate with someone not arguing in good faith.

$900k, lol

It's been widely reported we're offering Aleer $900k a year.

Have you got other information?

Small forwards clogged, lol

Higgins, Hall, Butler, Henry, Collard.

How many do we need?

If Butler and Phillipou are fit, and Henry starts showing his potential more consistently (he's still 23 and coming off a 9-month knee injury), and Hall is rotating between forward and mid... will Liam Ryan even be in our best 22?

Or will he add that much value over those guys (who would be jettisoned to VFL with Ryan playing)

And the other thing I mentioned- offering Windy 2 years when he's amply demonstrated his worth. 36 disposals and 3 coaches votes 2 weeks ago.

St Kilda is just making unwise moves.

I don't understand why so many fans here seem so sycophantic towards our own club. We should be holding the club to account and wanting them to make smart moves.

Criticising poor moves is considered "negative" instead of what it is- wanting success for your club by arguing for better decisions.

It's bizarre TBH.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

How much we were offerring that spud from North Melbourne (LDU), WIndy is worth every $$$ as much as he was offerred. We made the same mistake in NWM negotiations, if we had of offerred him an attractive offer early days he might have taken it then and there. The longer it went on the the more his form grew and the more of a sniff the Adelaide clubs thought they had. Hence his price escalated to record margins.

Pay Windy his worth and stop trying to shaft the players who we should be loyal to.

When we have a top 4 list and a real chance of winning a flag thats when we start asking players to take less, until then we should pay top dollar to keep our better players. If anyone thinks Windy is not one of our more important players they will be proven very wrong if he leaves.

LDU just re-signed for $1.2m a season.

Windy wants $800k+ while producing at a $600k level.

I'll be very surprised if Windy is top 10 in our B&F to be honest. Maybe in the lower reaches at best.

 

[SainterinSydney]

How bout' that Max King contract ?

If King gets fit and lives up to his potential, the $1 million a season will be a bargain based on the contracts now going around. But he has to get fit and on the park.

 

[Klaatu]

This might make some sense for other positions on the ground. Like a mature key back insurance option to replace Cordy. Especially given Howard's injury issues this year.

But why Liam Ryan? We have an endless supply of small forwards. Higgins, Hall, Butler, Henry, Collard.

Brisbane = Ah Chee,Lohman,Cameron & Bayley just to name 4 small forwards they can all kick 25+ goals a year, Henry & Collard won't at the moment Butler needs to find his form so that leaves Higgo & Hall we need more fire power from smaller players potential for Ryan to kick his 25+ especially at Marvel stadium.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Stop arguing about it and it gets shuffled down into obscurity. Who cares if he’s got a different opinion. I’m still in relief mode and need time to get my rage going again but each to their own.

What gets shuffled? Unfounded and outright incorrect ramblings? Then good.

Or, pollute the joint for months on end then when proven wrong immediately retort oH wELL wHO cARes Im JuSt gLaD ‘x’ HaPpEnEd LeTs mOVe oN

Love that playbook.

 

[stavro#4]

As a collective our list are poor marks and are constantly out marked in contests, excluding a couple of individuals.

Ross made clear he wants to be a side who controls the air.

Everything looks very targeted to improve that part of our game

 

[Dard Ball Get]

It's been widely reported we're offering Aleer $900k a year.

Have you got other information?

Higgins, Hall, Butler, Henry, Collard.

How many do we need?

If Butler and Phillipou are fit, and Henry starts showing his potential more consistently (he's still 23 and coming off a 9-month knee injury), and Hall is rotating between forward and mid... will Liam Ryan even be in our best 22?

Or will he add that much value over those guys (who would be jettisoned to VFL with Ryan playing)

And the other thing I mentioned- offering Windy 2 years when he's amply demonstrated his worth. 36 disposals and 3 coaches votes 2 weeks ago.

St Kilda is just making unwise moves.

I don't understand why so many fans here seem so sycophantic towards our own club. We should be holding the club to account and wanting them to make smart moves.

Criticising poor moves is considered "negative" instead of what it is- wanting success for your club by arguing for better decisions.

It's bizarre TBH.

The fact you’re happy to lump all “small forwards” together says enough.
Imagine saying all mids are the same.

Makes no sense and is not worth discussing.

 

[botts]

Riley beverage on gettable also said he was really impressed with kye finchers best on ground performance at sandy. Said he’s firmly in the top 30 now. Happy days saints. It’s all coming up red black and white

 

[PJays]

I'm not sold on Ryan, the money or the length, but our small forward position is not clogged with quality. So I don't see an issue with pursuing hopefully 30-40 goals in that area.

You realise Ryan is almost 29, and in his 8-season career has never kicked over 30 goals?

Not once.

Higgo has kicked 46 goals. Next best small forward is Hall with 21, who is likely moving up the ground and then Butler with seven. That's an area we could use some more goals in.

Butler and Henry were injured for most of the year.

Butler's goal kicking stats are similar to Ryan's - 172 goals over 151 games, compared to Ryan's 158 goals in 124 games- and they're the same age.

Hall, like Henry, is 23 so you'd expect further improvement.