List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[The Punter]

In 2020, Webster turned 27 and didn't play a game that year. It would have been easy to think his career was over.

But to play just under half of his career games after that point (93 before, 87 after) is a testament to him and his determination and honesty. Happy to hear other suggestions, but probably the best wearer of the 29 jumper at St Kilda to never graduate to a lower, more famous number.

I know we didn't manage it this year for whatever reason, but it'd still be lovely to see Seb Ross and now Webster do a lap together before a St Kilda game next year, especially considering they were drafted the same year.

Jack Sinclair now the longest tenured Saint.

 

[sauce_head]

Jimmy!!!! I used to bag the hell out of you until I realised how unassumingly good you were about five years ago.

I will miss you and look forward to bidding you farewell on Sunday.

 

[StFly]

Is now on Stocker to fly that flag, as Jimmy is a hard act to follow.

 

[FQFjt]

In 2020, Webster turned 27 and didn't play a game that year. It would have been easy to think his career was over.

But to play just under half of his career games after that point (93 before, 87 after) is a testament to him and his determination and honesty. Happy to hear other suggestions, but probably the best wearer of the 29 jumper at St Kilda to never graduate to a lower, more famous number.

I know we didn't manage it this year for whatever reason, but it'd still be lovely to see Seb Ross and now Webster do a lap together before a St Kilda game next year, especially considering they were drafted the same year.

Jack Sinclair now the longest tenured Saint.

Webster was a shining light in a very bleak time, and he earned the respect of multiple coaches. Tenacious, quick and reliable team player with an underrated bullet kick (most famously seen when setting up Spencer Buddy White for his VFL goal of the century).

 

[sauce_head]

Re TDK, given our lack of height and playing Pou as a crippled forward for structure, I am welcoming you to the club with open arms (if we get you) regardless of whether or not you are a better ruck than Marshall right now. You definitely will be in three years.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[Sully111]

Really sad to see Jimmy go. Even this year he was one of our better players.

 

[ThomasR]

Was hoping Jimmy would go around again. Maybe his body has had enough. Always gave it 100%. Thanks for putting your body on the line and giving your all for our great club. Wishing Jimmy and his family the very best for whatever the future holds.

Me too. Super reliable, underrated left peg and brave as they come. Did a great job to stick fat through some pretty dark periods. Set the tone when we decimated Freo earlier in the year and looked like he still had plenty of good footy left. Would've loved for him to get up for a farewell game

He's seen plenty come and go in his time - I think Clark is the next longest serving player on the list we originally drafted (excluding rookies), a whole six years later. In the words of TDK "all the best" Jimmy

 

[Spider Eater]

I was lucky enough to be at the game. That tackle happened right in front of me. Heatly kicked 7(?) and Wakelin killed Carey. What a night! The best game of forty I have ever been to, sadly.

 

[PJays]

The plan is to play both in the same team.

Here is what we have done this season in terms of all game ruck (primary named first, others after):

Round 1: Boyd, Marshall
Round 2-3: Marshall, Keeler
Round 4: Marshall, Keeler (subbed out), Owens
Round 5-6: Marshall, Owens
Round 7: Marshall, Keeler
Round 8-12: Marshall, Owens
Round 14: Marshall, Keeler, Owens
Round 15-16: Marshall, Keeler
Round 17: Marshall, Owens
Round 18-19: Marshall, Heath
Round 20: Marshall, Owens
Round 21: Marshall, Heath
Round 22: Marshall, Heath (subbed out), Boxshall (!)
Round 23: Marshall, Dodson (subbed out) Boxshall

Now, clearly the club considers those Owens/Boxshall minutes as unacceptable, and rightly so. Keeler is a satisfactory alternative but not great. Heath looks good at ball-ups and throw-ins, but not at centre bounces. We didn't see enough of Dodson, who did some rucking but never got to a centre bounce.

So the club has decided it needs two ruckmen in the side so it can have a ruck on the ground at all times.

In 2020 we were 8-5 with both Ryder and Marshall in the team and 3-3 with only Marshall. They only played 7 games together in 2021 (5-2 with both, 5-10 with one missing). In 2022 they played 11 games together for a record of 6-5, with St Kilda going 5-6 in games with only one of them playing.

So when we had two top-15 ruckmen in the league for a three year period, we went 19-12 when they both played and 13-19 when only one of them played. Almost opposite records.

I think it's been identified as an issue and the club has decided to rectify it by signing Tom De Koning.

Good post, I like the analysis

There is a major problem though

If you're Rowan Marshall, and you'd prefer to be #1 ruck, and suddenly the club wants you to ruck 40% of the time, what would you do? Fair chance you'd explore other opportunities.

On balance, I wouldn't mind this strategy if Marshall's on board. But ultimately it's the money that worries me. It's just too much in my book.

 

[Mat Mann]

We all know Carlton have a sorded history of arrogance and corruption, but how would we feel if we lost the best ruckman we have had in sometime. I strongly believe in karma in footy and things like this have an odd way of coming back and smacking you in the face. So lets be the bigger group and not rub it in their faces.

not a chance, our turn to rub it in, and do it proudly boys

 

[SaintJunior]

God they were an awful club when Elliott and Collins were in charge. Absolutely detestable.

The Karma bus hit them when they were pinched for salary cap cheating in 2003.

They haven’t been the same since.

And football is better for it.

 

[gubby88]

Good post, I like the analysis

There is a major problem though

If you're Rowan Marshall, and you'd prefer to be #1 ruck, and suddenly the club wants you to ruck 40% of the time, what would you do? Fair chance you'd explore other opportunities.

On balance, I wouldn't mind this strategy if Marshall's on board. But ultimately it's the money that worries me. It's just too much in my book.

If im Marshall, im putting that aside as i want success...i would rather cut down my role and be pivotal else where if it means getting close to a flag


and also, its quote clear that the Saints dont see it as too much on the book either

 

[stavro#4]

Good post, I like the analysis

There is a major problem though

If you're Rowan Marshall, and you'd prefer to be #1 ruck, and suddenly the club wants you to ruck 40% of the time, what would you do? Fair chance you'd explore other opportunities.

On balance, I wouldn't mind this strategy if Marshall's on board. But ultimately it's the money that worries me. It's just too much in my book.

If Marshall wants to leave. Go get us a good FRP.

That gives you plenty of options to build either via draft or trade.

If you do a best 23 as of right now.

We can slot Howard at FB and Camma up forward and Dodson/Heath as the 5th man on the bench

Or we retain Marshall. Trade Heath and Howard probably plays in our 2s

 

[akaifu]

Good post, I like the analysis

There is a major problem though

If you're Rowan Marshall, and you'd prefer to be #1 ruck, and suddenly the club wants you to ruck 40% of the time, what would you do? Fair chance you'd explore other opportunities.

On balance, I wouldn't mind this strategy if Marshall's on board. But ultimately it's the money that worries me. It's just too much in my book.

Marshall himself has said multiple times that he's fine with playing second fiddle AS LONG AS we are winning and proving that the formula works

 

[PJays]

Marshall himself has said multiple times that he's fine with playing second fiddle AS LONG AS we are winning and proving that the formula works

Where'd he say that? Link?

 

[PJays]

To be honest, even though its Carlton, I'm a little uneasy with all this gloating about one of their players leaving in free agency for an irresistible offer

I think footy's better when the good players stay with their clubs.

 

[LeonardHayes87]

Stuff like this give me so much energy

View attachment 2402766

There’s low IQ supporters everywhere and it’s an emotional sport but clearly that guy has no idea.

A club offers large contracts to players they really want on their list, it has nothing to do with being relevant or irrelevant. Tom also has to want to come, it’s not purely financial otherwise North Melbourne would be a top 4 team with all their recruits.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Where'd he say that? Link?

Saints ruck quizzed on future amid De Koning chase

 

[The Punter]

Good post, I like the analysis

There is a major problem though

If you're Rowan Marshall, and you'd prefer to be #1 ruck, and suddenly the club wants you to ruck 40% of the time, what would you do? Fair chance you'd explore other opportunities.

On balance, I wouldn't mind this strategy if Marshall's on board. But ultimately it's the money that worries me. It's just too much in my book.

I mean, Rowan Marshall is free to do whatever he sees fit.

But he's under contract and our public rhetoric is pretty strong we won't be giving him away because the strategy moving forward involves him.

Marshall is underrated. He should have been AA squad last year and in 2019. Many rate him on outdated metrics: that a ruckman's sole focus in 2025 should be hitouts, like the way the ruck is played right now makes them important. He's a fantastic around the ground big man who at his best grinds opponents into the ground with four quarters of gut running. He's very dangerous as a ruckman drifting forward.

I understand the trepidation regarding TDK's salary but I don't share it. I also think we've run the Marshall on his own experiment and without an elite forward/ruck (someone in a Luke Jackson/Joe Daniher/Riley Thilthorpe class), we lose too much when he is off the ground so its probably time to try something different. Dodson is not yet ready.

With our midfield improving (Nas isn't the only one to kick a goal bursting from centre stoppage this season, Garcia did it v Sydney), it would be problematic to deliberately section off 15% of the game where we are at a clear disadvantage due to a makeshift ruckman getting beaten in the air (eg Owens and Boxshall). Also we've been too short almost all year.

I'm on board with recruiting TDK.

 

[Mat Mann]

Sad to see him go, shame he doesn't get the send off he deserves so much, echo the sentiment of a lap of honor, Jimmy's such a lovely guy, and imo, so underrated by not only us but the wider AFL.

go well champ

 

[SainterinSydney]

The bottom line is Marshall is under contract for a further 2 years. We hold all of the power.

 

[Lightsxo]

I think footy's better when the good players stay with their clubs.

Footy feels infinitely better when we’re winning mate.

I couldn’t give a **** about the rest of the flogs.

 

[Mat Mann]

Good post, I like the analysis

There is a major problem though

If you're Rowan Marshall, and you'd prefer to be #1 ruck, and suddenly the club wants you to ruck 40% of the time, what would you do? Fair chance you'd explore other opportunities.

On balance, I wouldn't mind this strategy if Marshall's on board. But ultimately it's the money that worries me. It's just too much in my book.

Hopefully Rowan can see that if he sacrifices a bit of his game for the betterment of the team, he has a greater chance of success.

 

[Mat Mann]

To be honest, even though its Carlton, I'm a little uneasy with all this gloating about one of their players leaving in free agency for an irresistible offer

I think footy's better when the good players stay with their clubs.

you must be young, no way any St Kilda supporter who had to sit through the 80s says this