List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[joydivision22]

That's Impossible

The maximum possible excess from the last 4 years is less than this

But even if true, we're paying Nas $4mil over the next 2 years.

Which is more than your "saved SC" figure (that gets spread over 4 years anyway).

So where do we find the $12mil for TDK over 8 years?

From the existing cap.

We paid Brouch 600+ out of this years cap + include the fact we are already paying Nas 400 (?) so its not a full $2m increase to next years cap. oop found you a mil right there

Add in a couple of senior retirements jweb wouldve been 400+ rookie wage takes his spot so up another 250k. Cordy to rookie wouldnt be more than +100k

Think its a lot more comfortable than panic media is making out as per

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

I thought we took Barratt before Shanahan--my mistake. I wouldn't have sacrificed Tauru or Trav for him.

I like Trav, but thought Shanahan was more of a need.
We need someone developing behind King.
Who knows how that's going to pan out?

 

[Joffaboy]

I thought we took Barratt before Shanahan--my mistake. I wouldn't have sacrificed Tauru or Trav for him.

Yeah Jobe is a great get at 30, Murphy Reid a great take at 17, so was Boxshall at 45 and Dodson @ 53. Win some lose some.

 

[PJays]

Talking about humility…..

It gets a bit old when someone doesn't listen and keeps condescendingly talking down to you, while refusing to acknowledge indisputably salient points you've gone to effort to explain.

 

[True Blue Saint]

I think Hardwick moved him out of midfield where he was thriving and hasn’t been influential since then ended up a sub. Happy to be corrected

Correct.

Also played some good football in 2024 playing the distributor role off half back, so could even have that role with us

 

[hangdog]

So in footy terms, are you saying he gets enough of the ball but needs to lower his eyes when kicking into the forward 50 rather than just blazing away?

Ha, yes, which would make him legit St Kilda.

 

[gringo2011]

HIs evidence is based on clickbait media reporting without any skerrick of real insider knowledge of the finer details of each individual contract .... and its from that basic platform from which he claims our list management have no idea what they are doing

So we can't discuss anything unless we are insiders? Sounds like you guys have just decided that you don't like him and go after everything he writes.

The only place I have seen anyone saying that Windhager wants $900k is Stavro and you all eat out of his hands like he's reading the gospel.

 

[ESPN8 The Ocho]

Nas is on 2 mill for 2 years
TDK front ended 1.7 mill
King 1 mill a season
All reported
4.7 mill next year

Your original post is misleading because: you stated the $4.7 million as if it was permanent.
At best, the $4.7 million is valid for two years only.
I see you qualify yourself here.
Good.

This post is misleading too.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Yeah Jobe is a great get at 30, Murphy Reid a great take at 17, so was Boxshall at 45 and Dodson @ 53. Win some lose some.

Dodson and Box were absolute steals for their picks.

 

[gringo2011]

Don’t you think that was some of the thinking behind getting TDK?
Based on our usual injury “luck”, and our two KP players who were out for a year, and badly missed, a little extra height insurance, being able to use him or Marshall forward can only be a good thing.
I also think Marshall’s body is not 100%, nor will be, which is why I’m not unhappy with TDK while Dodson builds into the role.

We look a key position player short not a ruck. Honestly can't see what the point of TDK was except to trade away Marshall for picks. Aleer is a tall defender but doesn't look like what I imagine we need. He's not taking Howard's spot.

 

[gringo2011]

Its not all ... its a few that continually flinch and shoot at shadows .... crapping their dacks

What could be a glorious red sunset ... its forever nuclear armageddon before the sun even sets

WTF are you happy clappers on. We have done a lot of list repair and structured up the footy department.....but at the same time have gone backwards every year until we look like a bottom 4 side. The club was talking about challenging for a flag in 2025. Even if we grab a heap of established players I think that we will need a fair bit of luck to jump hard. Even with a really good run mid table looks the likely scenario.

Most of you guys freaked out at the thought of ditching Richo and Ratts.

 

[Diehard Saint]

It gets a bit old when someone doesn't listen and keeps condescendingly talking down to you, while refusing to acknowledge indisputably salient points you've gone to effort to explain.

Just pointing out that you, too, have a condescending style of posting at times.
No one is obliged to acknowledge “salient points” that you might believe to be “indisputable”, while others might disagree.

I think we should all acknowledge this is an opinions forum.
There is no obligation to agree with any or everyone, while there probably is one to have a discussion that is respectful of the difference of opinion of others, otherwise it tends to descend into an abyss of childishness and becomes quite unedifying, to be quite honest.

This last, is aimed at all of us on here, ultimately, all supporters of the Saints.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

We look a key position player short not a ruck. Honestly can't see what the point of TDK was except to trade away Marshall for picks. Aleer is a tall defender but doesn't look like what I imagine we need. He's not taking Howard's spot.

He'll take Howard's spot, if his hamstrings continue to go twang.
I don't overly rate Aleer either, but he will be important depth at the least.
And at 24y.o, there is hopefully still development in him & we have Enright to teach him some tricks.
And we actually are short in the Ruck.
Heath & Dodson have shown potential, not proven yet.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Yeah Jobe is a great get at 30, Murphy Reid a great take at 17, so was Boxshall at 45 and Dodson @ 53. Win some lose some.

reid has peaked, he's only gonna get slower and fatter from here, he's dunstan 2.0


huffs copium

 

[wannabewinner]

Top 4 contenders if we land SDK TDK Ryan Aleer and get Winx back

Besides Nas who is an A grade mid?

 

[billings2paddy]

Your original post is misleading because: you stated the $4.7 million as if it was permanent.
At best, the $4.7 million is valid for two years only.
I see you qualify yourself here.
Good.

This post is misleading too.

4.7 mill each year for 2 years is a shitload of money for just 3 players

 

[Parkysp]

We look a key position player short not a ruck. Honestly can't see what the point of TDK was except to trade away Marshall for picks. Aleer is a tall defender but doesn't look like what I imagine we need. He's not taking Howard's spot.

It's the circular argument on rucks and what they are worth and just depends on your view. I'm in the camp that we were playing from behind from the start with RoMa getting beaten (badly at times like the first 3 quarters against Melbourne). It wasn't just this year too.

You have a good read on things Gringo, but I for one am interested to see how a mid 20s ruck with a better leap changes the looks we get at both CB and around the ground. In particular one that we have seen play very good footy in that position.

Is it too much? Probably. Is it going to handcuff us? Potentially, possibly, but also we don't have the spreadsheet with actuals rather than media figures, fed from player managers. Time will tell. I think they (SOS and Dalrymple) have earnt a bit of trust so I'll give that but on a watch basis.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Besides Nas who is an A grade mid?

Besides Dawson, who’s an a grade mid at Adelaide?

 

[Diehard Saint]

We look a key position player short not a ruck. Honestly can't see what the point of TDK was except to trade away Marshall for picks. Aleer is a tall defender but doesn't look like what I imagine we need. He's not taking Howard's spot.

Didn’t mention Aleer, that’s another whole issue.

We may still be targeting a key position player in the draft, who knows?
I can’t believe you can’t see the point of TDK. Which key position player was available to us as a free agent now?

Dodson’s 19. And as promising as he appears to be, we’re not risking his body against mature men full time for another couple of years. Roma is not getting any younger and is noticeably playing through injuries. And as you’ve mentioned we need height, which either can provide both forward and back. We’d be completely stuffed should Roma go down with an injury next season.

You’ve also always mentioned we are lacking in the mid 20s age group - well on TDK we have one - the perfect age between Roma and Dodson.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Most of you guys freaked out at the thought of ditching Richo and Ratts.

Sorry - patently untrue.

Most of us were completely sick of them.
Certainly I was, and thrilled that that we got Ross back. Still am.
Yes, we’ve gone backwards short term, we have pretty much a completely different, much younger list and blind Freddy can see we have a lot more promise than we had. And that we’re moving in the right direction.

 

[Zzzed]

Besides Nas who is an A grade mid?

if he improves again over the preseason then Hall could be.
Showed some A grade glimpses this year.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

if he improves again over the preseason then Hall could be.
Showed some A grade glimpses this year.

We talk about Nas's elite kicking, but unlike Nas, l didn't see Hall miss targets too often

 

[Sarcoidevo]

So we can't discuss anything unless we are insiders? Sounds like you guys have just decided that you don't like him and go after everything he writes.

The only place I have seen anyone saying that Windhager wants $900k is Stavro and you all eat out of his hands like he's reading the gospel.

It's the doom laden bagging of the club and list management personnal without having any idea how each contract has been structured ..... yet pretending to know whats happening or going to happen

 

[PJays]

No one is obliged to acknowledge “salient points” that you might believe to be “indisputable”, while others might disagree.

If someone makes a factual statement- that should be acknowledged or accepted.

Or at least, not ignored while you mock the other person commenting.

I think we should all acknowledge this is an opinions forum. There is no obligation to agree with any or everyone

Not to be too pedantic but this needs unpacking.

Some opinions are mere preferences.

"I prefer when Saints play night games. They're more enjoyable"

"Ross Lyon's press conferences are hilarious! A laugh a minute!"

etc

Others are logical arguments built on information or assumptions.

"The Saints can easily afford De Koning because the salary cap is going up 5 million dollars next year".

That could be described as an opinion (the Saints can afford De Koning) however, it's not a preference. It's a statement that claims to be based on something. But the underlying basis is false.(The cap isn't going up 5 mill)

See the difference?

Both "opinions" but different things.

In that last example, the person expressing the "opinion" does have an obligation to admit they were wrong. Doing otherwise is failing your responsibility to the other person who went to the effort to explain the incorrect basis on which the opinion was claimed to be founded.

If the person wants to honestly and ethically keep their opinion, there needs to be another basis for it. (And maybe there is!).

But digging in heels and refusing to admit you made a factually false claim, (the cap goes up 5 mil) and instead claiming otherwise and mocking, is, I'd say, unethical and failing your obligation to the person you're discussing with, and evading your responsibility towards other readers. It doesn't move the discussion forward. It wilfully stalls people's progress towards understanding, which is a morally wrong action to take.

We should all share in the goal of exploring issues the right way- which includes establishing underlying facts and ensuring our views are based on those, or at least consistent with them. And trying to ensure our views are rational and robust.

 

[True Blue Saint]

Like most I too rate Dodson. Looks to be our best young drafted ruck since Everitt or MacEvoy.

However, I do not think he is a direct comparison to Jackson who is quicker and more athletic. Not that Dodson is not good athletically, as he is, and he is quite agile too.

Dodson certainly can gather and use the ball, so he has the follower capability that Marshall has.

But he is not super quick, and I am not sure his leading speed is quick enough to play as a permanent forward.

He has not been a ruck forward prior to this year. He played forward often at Sandy as we had Heath and Harry....and Keeler too. Heath often played FF too when we has Campbell.

It is great for Dodson's development as all ruckman really needs these days to be threats when they play forward, or push forward.

I am hoping that Dodson becomes a big Marshall, but who can actually ruck

FWIW, I agree entirely on the inaccurate comparison with Jackson.

I think the ceiling comparison given the way Dodson looks would be more like Dean Cox