List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[austinnn]

Don't stress, we've got another tow ball..Eamman Armstrong

Apart from his gleaming pate, what's your analysis of Armstrong, SaintMike? Did you get to see him at training late in the year? Any views on how he could slot into our team?

 

[CaptainRisky]

Flanders is literally a no-brainer. Will end up being our best recruit since the Gehrig and Hamill days.

You mean Fraser and Mr Two weeks

 

[Moquo]

What if 2025 ends up being the best season of Nas' career. I can't believe I, of all people, am saying this, but can't live it what ifs

Ya never know how things will pan out. All the experts are too busy on forums to actually sort the club out. Best we can do is to hire the best people we can find to make the best informed decisions that they can, while we hold on to our seats.

So be loud. Be annoying. It's our time

 

[Bill Crouse]

Flanders is literally a no-brainer. Will end up being our best recruit since the Gehrig and Hamill days.

Steele, Membrey, Dempster, Higgins and Gram are the names who stand out to me.

Steele was top 10 in our b&f 7 years in a row iirc. Flanders will have a great career if he can top that.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Yes and what I'm saying is if this was a generational draft, this would be a clear overpay based on what we know of Flanders and the likelihood of picking up a gun with that pick considering the probabilities. If it's an average draft I'd argue it's still an overpay. If it's a shithouse draft then I'm fine with it.

Unfortunately, there will be is 1 player, picked somewhere between 11 and 40, that becomes an absolute gun.

Would we have drafted him? Probably not. Would he have become a that good if he was drafted to St.Kilda? Almost certainly not. Will a few posters say "we could have had player x instead" over and over and over for the next decade? Absolutely.

Happened when we traded our first pick in 2012 (that became Kristian Jacksh) with people saying we could have had Grundy (even though he was taken well after our pick, every single pick between our original pick and him were busts, and we were never ever drafting Grundy).

Yes there was one pick that came good. But that was also a garbage draft, like this one, so the odds of hitting that one pick were tiny.

The comments about the 2012 draft only stopped after we traded our first pick in 2019 (that became Fisher McAsey) with people saying we could have had Young or Serong instead. That is fair call because it was a strong draft with pleanty of good talent.

However, pick 9 (Henry) and pick 11 (Flanders) are on our list. Pick 17 (Kemp) was almost a Saint 12 months ago, and pick 19 (DeKonig) is a non zero chance to be a Saint by this time next week. And at the end of 27 we are a fair chance to walk pick 14 (Bergman) to us as a FA. So we are still a chance to have a fair output from that 2019 draft, just not immediate impact.

Most people can look at what we did in 2019 in totality (with Hill, Ryder, Howard, Jones and Butler) and see it as a win. Especially with what Ryder and Hill have bought to the club cuturally. We are undoubtably better for doing that, rather then taking a single pick that may have been McAsey or may have been Serong. Hell, it might even have been Flanders. People really do forget just how big of a mess our list was back then, and no one player was not going to change that on his own.

But again, that will not stop a few people from refusing to look at what we do in totality, and instead constantly pulling out "we could have had player x rather than Flanders" for at least the next decade.

 

[TassieSaint]

Unfortunately, there will be is 1 player, picked somewhere between 11 and 40 that becomes an absolute gun.

Would we have drafted him? Probably not. Would he have become a that good if he was drafted to St.Kilda? Almost certainly not. Will a few posters say "we could have had player x instead" over and over and over for the next decade? Absolutely.

Happened when we traded our first pick in 2012 (that became Kristian Jacksh) with people saying we could have had Grundy (even though almost all of the picks after our original pick are busts and we were never ever drafting Grundy).

That was also a garbage draft, like this one.

The comments about the 2012 draft only stopped after we traded our first pick in 2019 (that became Fisher McAsey) with people saying we could have had Young or Serong instead. That is fair call because it was a strong draft.

However, pick 9 (Henry), pick 11 (Flanders) are on our list. Pick 17 (Kemp) was almost a Saint 12 months ago, and pick 19 (DeKonig) is a non zero chance to be a Saint by this time next week. And at the end of 27 we are a fair chance to walk pick 14 (Bergman) to us as a FA. So we are still a chance to have a fair output from that 2019 draft, just not immediate impact.

Most people can look at what we did in 2019 in totality (with Hill, Ryder, Howard, Jones and Butler) and see it as a win. Looking at out draft period in total at the end of next week, most will likely see that as a win too.

But again, that will not stop a few people contantly pulling out "we could have had player x rather than Flanders" for at least the next decade.

Off topic but we traded one of those picks for an unknown Tom Hickey when we could have just saved it and drafted Grundy. That was a garbage decision at the time even without the benefit of hindsight and it's only gotten worse with time.

 

[SainterinSydney]

We’ll probably end up with overs for butler if he ends up going up there, or Ainsworth very cheap if he doesn’t go to Carlton

Overs for Butler. I can feel that in my plumbs!

 

[gringo2011]

What if 2025 ends up being the best season of Nas' career. I can't believe I, of all people, am saying this, but can't live it what ifs

Probably be happy that we didn’t sign him for 10 year at that point. He’s likely a club legend and superstar anyway

 

[SainterinSydney]

You mean Fraser and Mr Two weeks

What other Gehrig?

Mr Two Weeks was a gun until he went fortnightly!

 

[True Believer]

When deciding on a list management decision, it's all about what ifs.

Considering the different possible scenarios and their probabilities.

Right.

And you could spend eternity with your thumb up your arse, contemplating every imaginable scenario and never making a decision, or making a change. IF nothing changes, then nothing changes!

"What if the wind changes direction, Jupiter is ascending in Aquarius and he trips and breaks every bone in his body?!"

OR, you could trust your domain expertise, evaluate the likely order of the draft, evaluate the players we expect to be available at our first pick, and measure their potential output against the proven output of Sam Flanders and decide which will be the better outcome for our pick and current list state.

Our guys, each with well over 3 decades of experience of football at the highest level, as players, coaches and administrators, have done that and picked Sam.

Let it go.......

 

[hayes]

Re Godson.

in terms of projecting as many know I’m an unashamed fan. Throughout the year watching his training and VFL I quickly became comfortable adjusting our entire ruck strategy around him.

I don’t think we as fans quite appreciate what he could be. He was pulling things off in the VFL what take most young ruckman 3/4 years to achieve. He had a couple BOG performances. Even his debut Ik he got subbed but you could see in the half his awareness and coordination was already up to scratch. He picked up the speed immediately. Incredibly rare for a young ruckman.

It has made me comfortable losing Ro even though I’d prefer a Ro x Godson combo than TDK. I think he will force his way in especially if Max is not ready yet.

He looked to have pretty freakish agility and coordination for someone his height. I’m more than comfortable with him being the back up ruckman.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Steele, Membrey, Dempster, Higgins and Gram are the names who stand out to me.

Steele was top 10 in our b&f 7 years in a row iirc. Flanders will have a great career if he can top that.

Out of those, though, they had promise but weren't guns yet. Flanders comes to us already showing his elite talent. Just so exciting to have a midfield gun choose us finally!

 

[True Believer]

Overs for Butler. I can feel that in my plumbs!

I hope your plums are right !!!

 

[True Believer]

What other Gehrig?

Mr Two Weeks was a gun until he went fortnightly!

The original FIFO.

3 weeks on, 8 weeks off.......

 

[Linton Street Saint]

Right.

And you could spend eternity with your thumb up your arse, contemplating every imaginable scenario and never making a decision, or making a change. IF nothing changes, then nothing changes!

"What if the wind changes direction, Jupiter is ascending in Aquarius and he trips and breaks every bone in his body?!"

OR, you could trust your domain expertise, evaluate the likely order of the draft, evaluate the players we expect to be available at our first pick, and measure their potential output against the proven output of Sam Flanders and decide which will be the better outcome for our pick and current list state.

Our guys, each with well over 3 decades of experience of football at the highest level, as players, coaches and administrators, have done that and picked Sam.

Let it go.......

Honestly needs to be put on mass ignore and let them piss and moan into the void, they've no interest in discussion in good faith just belligerently regurgitating the same dogshit with zero evaluation of input or responses

 

[Dr Spaceman]

View attachment 2450164

 

[Saints4ever]

Playing super coach in 2024 and having Flanders as a stupid sexy gun in my side I can tell you I watched him very closely and he was an absolute stud and worth every bit a top 10 pick I’m actually pinching myself we have him even though he had a down 2025 due to being played out of position and injury derailing his pre season.

Make no mistake we have an absolutely seriously good player who will plug straight into our midfield.

If we used Pick 7 at the draft and lets be honest it’s probably going to be pick 12 I’d be wrapped if they developed to the standard that stupid sexy Flanders played in 2024.

1 final stat last year stupid sexy broke the record for most possessions for a suns player across a season beating the great Gary Ablett averaging over 30 a game.

I’m pumped and couldn’t be happier and nobody’s going to bring me down.

 

[Yawkey way]

I'm certain hundreds of other players could run faster than Boyd O'Brien or Darcy - doesn't stop them from playing as a ruck in the AFL.

Boyd was picked up to be a first choice replacement for Marshall if he got injured in 2025 - Marshall didn't get injured so Boyd didn't play.

Job done!!

It wasn’t his pace that bothered me, he didn’t have much of a leap.

He was a good honest footballer but I couldn’t really see why they moved on from Tom Campbell. It wasn’t a great vote of confidence in moose moving Campbell on only to bring Boyd in.

 

[mighty_sainters]

The same half glass empty posters that are criticising the club for trading pick 7 for Flanders are the same that keep piling on the decision to draft Travaglia at pick 8.

Can’t please everyone.

 

[bakes10]

The same half glass empty posters that are criticising the club for trading pick 7 for Flanders are the same that keep piling on the decision to draft Travaglia at pick 8.

Can’t please everyone.

Not me. Happy to get Flanders for 7 because the time is right to top up now and go for broke. Last year I would have taken X Lindsay with one of our picks but still happy we got Trav, just really needs to tidy up his disposal whereas Lindsay was already an elite kick.

 

[thekizzler]

I base my viewpoints on data.

"Men lie, women lie, numbers don't"

Perfectly happy admitting I don't watch a huge amount of games not involving St Kilda.

The key data points on Flanders are:

• 24 years old
• 89 career games and 57 career coaches votes
• One top 10 B&F finish.

I don't need to watch him play 20 games to hold the view that trading a pick 10 or 11 (even in a "weak draft") isn't a good idea in this instance.

You admit?

It's f***ing obvious, mate

Just wait until you hear my opinion on gymnastics - a sport I don't watch.

I could spin a better yarn than you easily

 

[geelong sajnt]

Off topic but we traded one of those picks for an unknown Tom Hickey when we could have just saved it and drafted Grundy. That was a garbage decision at the time even without the benefit of hindsight and it's only gotten worse with time.

And yet it's agreed that you should trade not draft ruckman.....

 

[tommo7]

 

[SainterinSydney]

View attachment 2450314

Someone ask Joey if any other fish is coming our way.

 

[DT_35]

Yikes, I just vomited a little