List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[austinnn]

**** sake. I started this shit and even I’m sick of it.

Mission accomplished, agents. Return to HQ

 

[mad-saint-guy]

I'm not judging off last nights game only, it's across all games he has played.

Like I said it's a very early call and I obviously hope I'm wrong.

Tackling is great and all, but I don't want a top 10 picks strength to be tackling. That's for Garcia type pick.

I get the sense that his strengths are tenacity, running and versatility...which I agree, aren't the traits that you look for with a top 10 pick. They need to be complementary traits to talent and skill. He has a pretty clear weakness with his kicking. Hopefully that can be cleaned up but it would mean a change to his kicking action which isn't easy to do at that age.

It's plain for everyone to see that Viking's elite traits are marking and his intercept game. Complemented with great athleticism, a bit of mongrel and decent skills. That's the kind of set of attributes that you look for in a top 10 pick.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Agree, SOS is a fraud imo
Has done very little so far thats changed my opinion

You don't rate his terrible drafting at GWS and then trying to recruit them all again at Carlton and now trying to fill out list with Carlton players?

 

[akaifu]

Any reason not to compare Travaglia's attributes with Noah Anderson

15

Noah Anderson

Age

24

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.0

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

CL

0.0

1star

?

This was part of Anderson's draft profile:

STRENGTHS:

Scoreboard impact
Power
Strength/size
Kick penetration
Contested ball winning
Leadership

IMPROVEMENTS:

Kicking consistency
Lowering the eyes

Noah Anderson Draft Profile

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "Anderson is a complete prospect who has the ability to tear games apart with his presence inside 50 and around the ball."

central.rookieme.com

 

[ThomasR]

Tobie is genuinely the least of our problems now. Still 18yo and way ahead of schedule. It's funny to watch him off the ball, he is working so hard on his game, learning the system, where he has to be and what he should be doing. It's like watching someone thinking their way through a football game rather than playing it.

Makes a howler every now and then and admonishes himself for it, you can tell he desperately always wants to be doing the right thing by the team and his coaches. It'll still be a while before he crosses that threshold of feeling like he belongs, and he will be a slow burn, but if and when he gets there he has some pretty rare attributes in terms of his size, athleticism and hands. A few pre-seasons and the chance to play against guys younger and smaller than him will make a world of difference.

From a footballing perspective his VFL performances are a much better guide than what he has shown in the ones. Not everyone will be Daicos, Sheezel or Reid in their first year. Especially if they are being named sub every second week

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Any reason not to compare Travaglia's attributes with Noah Anderson?

This was part of Anderson's draft profile:

STRENGTHS:

Scoreboard impact
Power
Strength/size
Kick penetration
Contested ball winning
Leadership

IMPROVEMENTS:

Kicking consistency
Lowering the eyes

Noah Anderson Draft Profile

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "Anderson is a complete prospect who has the ability to tear games apart with his presence inside 50 and around the ball."

central.rookieme.com

Powerful goalkicking mid vs half back/winger. I wouldn't list scoreboardimpact, power, strength or contested ball winning on Travaglia's strengths. No idea about leadership. He can bomb it a fairly long way though

 

[akaifu]

Powerful goalkicking mid vs half back/winger. I wouldn't list scoreboardimpact, power, strength or contested ball winning on Travaglia's strengths. No idea about leadership. He can bomb it a fairly long way though

Even after watching any of these?

 

[TheJackal]

One more thing regarding the criticism of recent drafting. I’ve mentioned this maybe a thousand times.

Firstly, feel free to criticise but KNOW that we are not using the same recruiter that we’ve had previously.

RIP -Toice
Liberatore
Trout

We have Simon Dalrympal who is now making our draft decisions.

This is the guy who drafted McRae
Bont
Stringer
Ed Richards
Baily Dale

Chad Warner etc etc.

This is not to say he is perfect.
What it means is, if you criticise our current draft choices and compare it to taking Billings before Bont or something like that … you need to understand how illogical that is.

Dalrympal is also known for finding absolute draft steals all over the draft.

Eg Max Hall is exactly the type of player Dalrympal would pick.

Recruiting successes are as much about injuries, load management and development within a successful system as it is a God given talent. Selecting kids is a calculated gamble that is never guaranteed.

I'd be wary of putting any recruiter up on a pedestal, actually, I think Toce (RIP) may have been an outlier.

Regardless, I do want to say for every Chad Warner, there is a Dylan Stephens - taken a couple of picks before Hayden Young and Caleb Serong - every club/recruiter has them if we look closely enough. There's hits and misses everywhere but I'm hopeful all or at least most of our under 23s will become hits with the right amount of luck!

 

[bergholt]

I feel for TDK. As it stands his choices are Carlton or St Kilda. Probably better to retire from footy and become a broccoli farmer rather than have a lifetime of disappointment.

 

[Mowman]

Even after watching any of these?

Think every Saint is happy with Toby

But no made a case more than you at the last draft that he wasn’t a mid

 

[Mowman]

Powerful goalkicking mid vs half back/winger. I wouldn't list scoreboardimpact, power, strength or contested ball winning on Travaglia's strengths. No idea about leadership. He can bomb it a fairly long way though

I think the whole football world can see it except for Stkilda

1.7 million for a ruck lol and he’s a good ruck no more than that

 

[ScrappyDo]

I reckon we probably go backwards next year as a few sides like North move up. Thin the list out a bit more and a few of the regular injuries and we are probably bottom 3. Possibly bottom 2. The year after that a lot of the older guys start to slow. If we don’t have a lot step up we are going to be starting a long way back.

It’s a shame that we didn’t go hard last year with the super draft.

I think we went as hard as we could at last year's draft. It's worked out for us not bringing in this year's 1st..

 

[dudeintheswamp]

I feel for TDK. As it stands his choices are Carlton or St Kilda. Probably better to retire from footy and become a broccoli farmer rather than have a lifetime of disappointment.

$12 million smackaroos, poor kid.

 

[beside the seaside]

Think every Saint is happy with Toby

But no made a case more than you at the last draft that he wasn’t a mid

Obviously no idea if he makes it as a mid but he has already had some promising VFL games as a midfielder. Whether he can make it in there at AFL level is still a big question mark but I don't think it's a certainty he can't.

Jeez the sub rule is annoying. You have to play someone there so it often ends up a kid so he misses VFL footy and plays a quarter. This is now a development year so we need to look at how we use it, please not Tobie again.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Even after watching any of these?

A lot of tackling and handballs. A kick every now and then, hitting the target maybe half the time...

 

[MightySaintas]

Obviously no idea if he makes it as a mid but he has already had some promising VFL games as a midfielder. Whether he can make it in there at AFL level is still a big question mark but I don't think it's a certainty he can't.

Jeez the sub rule is annoying. You have to play someone there so it often ends up a kid so he misses VFL footy and plays a quarter. This is now a development year so we need to look at how we use it, please not Tobie again.

Zac or Byrnes are surely the logical sub candidates

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Tobie is genuinely the least of our problems now. Still 18yo and way ahead of schedule. It's funny to watch him off the ball, he is working so hard on his game, learning the system, where he has to be and what he should be doing. It's like watching someone thinking their way through a football game rather than playing it.

Makes a howler every now and then and admonishes himself for it, you can tell he desperately always wants to be doing the right thing by the team and his coaches. It'll still be a while before he crosses that threshold of feeling like he belongs, and he will be a slow burn, but if and when he gets there he has some pretty rare attributes in terms of his size, athleticism and hands. A few pre-seasons and the chance to play against guys younger and smaller than him will make a world of difference.

From a footballing perspective his VFL performances are a much better guide than what he has shown in the ones. Not everyone will be Daicos, Sheezel or Reid in their first year. Especially if they are being named sub every second week

I totally agree. Tobie is a Sainter now we cant live in the past - he has all the attributes to make it, he is just a bit physically raw. Give him time he becomes the player we all crave. Tauru will do the same they are just going to take time.

List wise we have taken 3 steps back to hopefully go eventually 6 steps forward. But we (including myself) have to be patient and remember just how young and inexperienced these kids are.

The biggest disappointment this year is the drop off of the more senior players - but I guess even that shouldnt be unexpected given the WORK LOAD they have been carrying for so long. Wilkie, Marshall, Steele, Woods, Webster, Sinclair, Hill, Butler have been carrying more than their fair share of responsibility for our results.

I dont think the club considered/calculated the affect on them when they decided to have another rebuild!

 

[gringo2011]

Irrespective of if Marshall is better than TDK (based on 2025 form he isn’t).

It gives you an option to go get another first rounder + change from a list management lens.

And if letting a member of the senior core go in 23 + 24 is a guide for 2025 - it can only be Marshall or Steele.

So it’s a good move irrespective of the fact we are paying the rumoured amount.

You said we'd keep Marshall.

 

[gringo2011]

I think Tauru will make it because he has the ceiling mixed with the hunger.

Travaglia lacks polish and looks workmanlike but watch the standards he commands of others over the coming years. Top 5 runner at the club and there'll come a time where he makes a game saving tackle, win a one on one or break the lines with a running effort that will make him a fan favourite. We're all impatient and things needs to fall our way, but as RTB said, 'someone's gotta do the work to get us there'

Trav's not workman like IMO. Workmen are more Geary. His skills set looks pretty but he likely ends up an attacking running HB. They don't tend to get the respect of the footy world.

 

[stavro#4]

You said we'd keep Marshall.

Read what I’ve previously written.

I said they want to keep Marshall.

Marshall might want to leave. Of which I don’t know it’s just media speculation.

 

[Pardon me]

I'm not as bullish as some on the inclusion of King back into the forward line. Unless we change the mentality of dump kicks to hitting leading targets ratio I cant see it working and the quick rebound goal will be seen over and over again.

Once he inevitably returns (at this stage it's hope more than a fixed timeline from the club) how do we see all of Sharman, Owens, King, possibly Roma if we land TDK to work?

Does Owens move to a wing? Or can he fix his terrible routine?
How do we guarantee regular supply with our current midfield setup?

I realise these are mostly coaching and structure questions but my concerns are we go too top heavy forward of centre and the supply dries up or we rely on rebound D50 movement to setup the majority of goals.

What I'm really looking for is some much more upbeat posters on this forum to allay some fears

 

[phantom13]

Trav's not workman like IMO. Workmen are more Geary. His skills set looks pretty but he likely ends up an attacking running HB. They don't tend to get the respect of the footy world.

It should be no surprise that Bailey Dales return to form coincided with the dogs looking like world beaters (Bont coming back helps too).

Guys that can transition the footy with line breaking pace and carry make a world of difference

 

[stavro#4]

Even after watching any of these?

He probably doesn’t become a full time midfielder. That’s okay if we draft one this year. We have done to death the late season spike hurting us in 2024.

What his ceiling does look like is an elite player who can play 4-5 positions depending on opposition & task.

He has an elite tank. He is good overhead. He is going to be as competitive as any listed player we have. He has a good read of the play and appears to have some nous to get the ball and move in and out of traffic.

He gives some serious Will day vibes.

 

[phantom13]

I'm not as bullish as some on the inclusion of King back into the forward line. Unless we change the mentality of dump kicks to hitting leading targets ratio I cant see it working and the quick rebound goal will be seen over and over again.

Once he inevitably returns (at this stage it's hope more than a fixed timeline from the club) how do we see all of Sharman, Owens, King, possibly Roma if we land TDK to work?

Does Owens move to a wing? Or can he fix his terrible routine?
How do we guarantee regular supply with our current midfield setup?

I realise these are mostly coaching and structure questions but my concerns are we go too top heavy forward of centre and the supply dries up or we rely on rebound D50 movement to setup the majority of goals.

What I'm really looking for is some much more upbeat posters on this forum to allay some fears

I’m about as negative as anyone on here (just ask) but honestly the plan is pretty clear.

King returns and Sharman and Owens become 2-3 and they’re much much better (Sharman has 18 goals from 11 games as the number 1 forward). It also gives the smalls something to rove to.

Defensively Camma has been a great find. Wilkie has 4-5 more years likely as elite to very good. Throw in Barrat and Tauru and the key posts are set (and all very solid).

We’ve stacked the side with run and carry players and we’re clearly trying to develop a gameplan to suit. Nas, Sincs, travag, Wilson.

The midfield remains the question but again I think we’re going for competitive and hardworking than truly game breaking. Pou is the unknown but Boxshall, Garcia even Macrae, windy and Steele are all solid. If Travag or whoever we draft next comes on then it goes from a B- (after some development) to a B+.

No it could all go to shit. We lose Nas and don’t get TDK, Kings knee keeps ****ing up and then referees pressure to the kids stunts their development and we’re nowhere but the plan is pretty obvious I think.

 

[botts]

Apparently Neil Erasmus is selling all his freo stuff online including his best on ground medal in the wafl. Wonder if we are into him