"Goddess" - Thread starter
- Moderator
- #5,203
-
Mobile App Discontinued
Due to a number of factors, support for the current BigFooty mobile app has been discontinued. Your BigFooty login will no longer work on the Tapatalk or the BigFooty App - which is based on Tapatalk.
Apologies for any inconvenience. We will try to find a replacement.
List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃
- Thread starter Aphrodite
- Start date
- Tagged users None
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
- Status
- Mar 25, 2019
- 26,076
- 53,138
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Bottom 8 material imo.
Acres, Saad, Gov, Motlop and Fog need to go too. Acres I'll give the excuse of off season surgeries at least, the rest have been deplorable.
bradfisher14
Not actually Brad Fisher
Definitely a good chance for top 4 if we're playing footy in 2021
3 years they busted a gut, injuries, crash and bash gameplan… then a crappy off season (dikpic), treatment of certain players (Kennedy), slow football related changes (cook)… eventually it wears thin and motivation wanes. Hence why Voss needs to go, if his strength is motivation and speaking he’s run his course.
It seems to be justified, though, right?
Bolton went off the rails (without the guidance of Craig). His coaching in 2019 was actively costing us wins, a team starved of wins (what was it, 4 in 43 when we moved him on?).
1 in the first 11, for a team that should have been (and proved to be) roughly 50/50.
Teague was a terrible coach. Took us backwards each year after his caretaker start.
And then now.
It’s also not the same group of players. More than half the list arrived after Teague was sacked.
Log in to remove this Banner Ad
4flagsin5yrs
Norm Smith Medallist
No, the problem is those blokes are performing at about 35% of their 'best' output.
Walsh and Harry sidelined most of the season, Cripps likely playing injured for months....
Charlie doing Charlie things.
Weiters just dog tired!
Yep. It's very hard to blame the players.
People try to say "I always do my job professionally even under poor management/leadership", but it is very different trying to maintain that in a job requiring huge physical effort and extreme mental focus to achieve results.
The players have been set up to fail again and again, and as outlined by others, this for mine is the sole reason Silvagni is entertaining the Pies offer. He's had enough.
It’s such a chicken or the egg argument - blame the players or blame the coach. Over the past 3 years our form line has swung like a pendulum, suggesting we are capable of playing damn good football and utter dross. This year we have been consistently crap. Too many black marks against the coaching team to suggest the coaches aren’t the problem or at least not a substantial part. If we have a few bad apples then flush them out. But I’d be confident to say that aside from TDK, all the other so called “disgruntled” players will change tune once the formal announcements are made of Voss and co being moved on.
JJBagger
Club Legend
- Sep 6, 2022
- 2,783
- 8,151
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Charlie 3 pre season surgeries - including an ankle reco in December. The fact he’s on track for 40 goals this year is almost freakish based on what he went through pre season
- Mar 25, 2019
- 26,076
- 53,138
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Plus that the team is absolutely shockingly crap this year around him too.
I disagree with this … market says 1.7 for tdk so we should pay that … nah .. I always feel and maybe I’m old school , if a team has backed you in, you should pay a little less … played for 10 years , we gave him his opportunity so we should maybe give the same years but a little less
TENACIOUS
Premiership Player
- Aug 16, 2008
- 4,679
- 17,263
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Absolute priority (IMVHO) is a ‘modern’ midfielder. Kidding ourselves if we think the Cripps, Hewett and Cerra setup will work.
Smith will help, but he’s 19 coming off a knee reconstruction - he might not be the player he was set to be.
I actually think Cerra would thrive in that defensive/exit role the Pies use Pendlebury in.
Smith will help, but he’s 19 coming off a knee reconstruction - he might not be the player he was set to be.
I actually think Cerra would thrive in that defensive/exit role the Pies use Pendlebury in.
bluesDeluxe
Team Captain
- Oct 15, 2022
- 314
- 629
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Agree with this.
Very easy to lose trust with poor management, in any walk of life. Good managers give you a reason to trust them and foster improved performance.
The last 3 coaches haven't done this because their gameplan was not up to scratch.
Let's take hawthorn for example. They got hammered early days with mitchell, but you could see what they were trying to do. They got wins along the way which fuelled confidence eg winning by 10 goals against Port in Adelaide 3 years ago.
There was very rarely a confidence to how we were winning, and the last quarter, late season drop off's prove it.
I would say that out development at vfl level has been good, and there are many examples. It's the development at afl level which is stunting growth.
We need modern thinking, modern tactics and we will flourish.
Players are not blameless though. Contracted '26 players like fogarty, L young, durdin, fogarty, Acres should be depth only and play the majority in the vfl. If we can get best 23 players to replace them with solid B grade types, that's where the improvement will come from.
Removing players from the list who offer very little like fantasia, McGovern, Cincotta , Evans, lemmey, with suitable rookie replacements like Dean etc with be a massive benefit.
2 Irish boys can stay 1 more year or go, it's inconsequential either way.
We were winning by 60+ every week for some time.
- Oct 8, 2006
- 2,083
- 4,889
- AFL Club
- Carlton
That's an all around better deal!
We paid the hectare rate
bringdoullback
Debutant
- Mar 31, 2018
- 143
- 376
- AFL Club
- Carlton
You highlighted a good reason why this is a high risk SC structure. It's the hero model I see this with a lot of start up tech companies, with the few gun tech developers. You are so reliant on them. You become a slave to their availability and form. And like you say they have not delivered.
When was the last time we had all 6 playing together for an extended period.
Yeah even if we had peak Leigh Matthews coaching us next year we’re not playing finals with SOS back in the forward line and Boyd, Fogarty, Acres & Gov in the starting 18…
With the possible exception of Gov those four would simply not get a game in the current top 8 sides.
Last edited:
- Nov 27, 2016
- 20,568
- 40,639
- AFL Club
- Carlton
I thought Pitto and Cez took less per year for a longer contract.
It's the only reason I could see to extend Pitto for 4 years and Cez for an extra extension when he still had a fair while left on his contract.
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
- Sep 1, 2016
- 8,565
- 14,034
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Hasnt he been in the same "average side" he seems to want out of?
- Sep 1, 2016
- 8,565
- 14,034
- AFL Club
- Carlton
I swear to god I've been reading this for a decade now. I genuinely dont think much of our list is A grade at all. IMO, we've seen the best of the top of our list. All we seem to be doing now is pushing the hope for our list on to the next generation that are coming in the next draft or two along with Jagga. The way Dean and Walker and the like are spoken about, its like the next coming of Christ.
- Aug 16, 2009
- 8,251
- 12,871
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- North Ballarat
Yeah, by all means have a look around as it's likely his last chance at a good contract but I'm not buying that as an excuse.
4flagsin5yrs
Norm Smith Medallist
Boyd close to a delist surely... shows signs, but...
Guv - not sure why he gets the hate, he can play....either end.
Saad - must be close to hanging them up, the drop off is very apparent.
Mots - has shown a bit, i'd likely keep (dependent on who else we can attract).
Acres and Fog - time to move past these types.
Acres played some fine games, but....
Fog - nope.
4flagsin5yrs
Norm Smith Medallist
no, you're missing the point.
Forget the money, you take most of the top 6 from any side... see how they go.
We need to understand why our blokes are side-lined, mentally or physically, seemingly so much more than other teams.
If those six were playing anywhere near their best - not an unrealistic expectation - and TDK was offering more than just lip service, we'd be top 4 comfortably.
To my mind, and there is ample evidence in now, it's on the coaches, the game plan and, in part at least, the so called, albeit spluttering, high performance crew.
While I am not enamoured that we have compromised a year where we should have been in a “window”, I feel we still have a positive future to contemplate.
As a “student” of list management and avid watcher of young talent, I remain excited by our future. The list dynamic will go through significant change in the next two to three years with a dozen or so ageing “second tier” types at or approaching their career mortality along with some culling of depth type players who are being, hopefully overtaken by our developing youngsters.
The saving grace for me is that the senior core combined with the developing youth should still give us close to thirty very capable best 22 players, and thus quickly return us to that premiership window.
Other than the probable TDK departure, I doubt we are actually going to lose any of our “stars”. Even if we do lose one of them, I firmly believe we can cover (unless it is Harry diminishing our genuine talls along with De Koning) the loss sufficiently and would benefit from increased draft cqpital and salary cap relief.
Our out of contract list is starting to sort itself. We still have some question still to answer. There is probably a little movement among some of our contracted players either through trade or delisting to facilitate space. (Dogs very much barking that Elijah Hollands “has to go”). The other contracted players who may have questions asked regarding tenure for mine, are Jaxon Binns, Lewis Young (raised every year), perhaps out of favour Jordan Boyd and the prematurely extended, but rumoured retiring Adam Saad.
Uncontracted
1. Jack Silvagni - Likely stay on multi year deal. The Collingwood interest is real, but difficult to see Jack moving despite his mate being on the dark side. If he leaves we get more draft capital. Give a year of development for HOF and Dean may not be catastrophic bar the cultural implications.
3. Jesse Motlop - divides us supporters, but his best is very good and difficult to see us shopping him. If he wants a big pay day might be in for a shock though. Surely better suited with improved game plan. For mine, would just give a one year extension to assess under new regime, but suspect would get a two year extension.
11. Mitch McGovern - rumoured to have an auto extension clause, but yet to be confirmed. His best gives us “layers” but we too rarely see it. Struggles to produce consistently and can appear very conditional. It is time to part company, hopefully a reasonable pick can be obtained in return.
12. Tom De Koning. - Likely gone as free agent. The draft capital will/would be invaluable. Likely creates problems for others if he re-signs. No right minded person would begrudge him accepting the outlandish reported offer.
14. Orazio Fantasia - Injury continues to punctuate his career. Difficult to see him kept over other options, but on ability could be retained pending other decisions. Some mentorship ability which would be a positive.
15. Sam Docherty - RETIRED - Thanks mate.
17. Brodie Kemp - we are hearing very little. Clearly his rehab is a consideration. His versatility is a big positive and people quickly forget his early season form, which included a five goal haul. Surely gets another deal for two or three years.
26. Nick Haynes - Revelation and great mentor. Has had a quality season, perhaps slowing a little as the season goes on, but hard to imagine not giving an extension for another season due to his form and value mentoring the kids.
31. Harry Lemmey - Slow burn, showing enough in the reserves to be retained. With Harry, Charlie, Kempy and likely HOK in front of him, we may consider trade offers if, as rumoured, they come. With H and Chas contracted until the end of the decade, we would have time to develop a replacement. Interesting call.
34. Rob Monahan (R-B) - Cat B showing improvement in the twos. Might go either way if we feel an NGA prospect is a better bet with a Cat B spot.
35. Billy Wilson - favourite of many. Hard to get a read on his internal rating. Unless we desperately need to make space surely gets at least another year to build on his debut game.
38. Will White(R) - Thinking Thursday moved him ahead of the other rookies vying for a spot(we need to cut two absolute minimum). Still building and his left foot gives POD. Heart and soul Blueboy.
39. Alex Cincotta(R) - difficult read. Brought back after injury with limited impact. Needs promotion to the main list, and that may cost him with spots tight. Still see him as a defender who can go in to the middle rather than the Jack of all trades Voss sees him as. One rumour has him gone, which could have credence given his injury run and aging body.
41. Matt Duffy (R-B) - Likely has two years on his contract, so expect him to go on.
44. Francis Evans (R) - Supporters are finally coming around to him. Solid depth, but think he is going to struggle to maintain his spot given we are two rookies over quota.
45. Flynn Young (R) - Was excited at his signing, but, while getting some games, has not really shown enough of his quality left peg. Low possessions question if he is up to the level. Toss of a coin guven last in first off possibility.
With Doc retired, we will have ten other players turning 30 or older in 2026 and we need to manage their exits sensibly.
McGovern, Haynes and Fantasia are in the uncontracted and it would be good business to exit at least two of them this year. Potentially Saad could join them. Newman, Cripps, Williams, Acres, Hewett and Pittonet are the others who would all be considered best 22 if TDK defects.
As a “student” of list management and avid watcher of young talent, I remain excited by our future. The list dynamic will go through significant change in the next two to three years with a dozen or so ageing “second tier” types at or approaching their career mortality along with some culling of depth type players who are being, hopefully overtaken by our developing youngsters.
The saving grace for me is that the senior core combined with the developing youth should still give us close to thirty very capable best 22 players, and thus quickly return us to that premiership window.
Other than the probable TDK departure, I doubt we are actually going to lose any of our “stars”. Even if we do lose one of them, I firmly believe we can cover (unless it is Harry diminishing our genuine talls along with De Koning) the loss sufficiently and would benefit from increased draft cqpital and salary cap relief.
Our out of contract list is starting to sort itself. We still have some question still to answer. There is probably a little movement among some of our contracted players either through trade or delisting to facilitate space. (Dogs very much barking that Elijah Hollands “has to go”). The other contracted players who may have questions asked regarding tenure for mine, are Jaxon Binns, Lewis Young (raised every year), perhaps out of favour Jordan Boyd and the prematurely extended, but rumoured retiring Adam Saad.
Uncontracted
1. Jack Silvagni - Likely stay on multi year deal. The Collingwood interest is real, but difficult to see Jack moving despite his mate being on the dark side. If he leaves we get more draft capital. Give a year of development for HOF and Dean may not be catastrophic bar the cultural implications.
3. Jesse Motlop - divides us supporters, but his best is very good and difficult to see us shopping him. If he wants a big pay day might be in for a shock though. Surely better suited with improved game plan. For mine, would just give a one year extension to assess under new regime, but suspect would get a two year extension.
11. Mitch McGovern - rumoured to have an auto extension clause, but yet to be confirmed. His best gives us “layers” but we too rarely see it. Struggles to produce consistently and can appear very conditional. It is time to part company, hopefully a reasonable pick can be obtained in return.
12. Tom De Koning. - Likely gone as free agent. The draft capital will/would be invaluable. Likely creates problems for others if he re-signs. No right minded person would begrudge him accepting the outlandish reported offer.
14. Orazio Fantasia - Injury continues to punctuate his career. Difficult to see him kept over other options, but on ability could be retained pending other decisions. Some mentorship ability which would be a positive.
15. Sam Docherty - RETIRED - Thanks mate.
17. Brodie Kemp - we are hearing very little. Clearly his rehab is a consideration. His versatility is a big positive and people quickly forget his early season form, which included a five goal haul. Surely gets another deal for two or three years.
26. Nick Haynes - Revelation and great mentor. Has had a quality season, perhaps slowing a little as the season goes on, but hard to imagine not giving an extension for another season due to his form and value mentoring the kids.
31. Harry Lemmey - Slow burn, showing enough in the reserves to be retained. With Harry, Charlie, Kempy and likely HOK in front of him, we may consider trade offers if, as rumoured, they come. With H and Chas contracted until the end of the decade, we would have time to develop a replacement. Interesting call.
34. Rob Monahan (R-B) - Cat B showing improvement in the twos. Might go either way if we feel an NGA prospect is a better bet with a Cat B spot.
35. Billy Wilson - favourite of many. Hard to get a read on his internal rating. Unless we desperately need to make space surely gets at least another year to build on his debut game.
38. Will White(R) - Thinking Thursday moved him ahead of the other rookies vying for a spot(we need to cut two absolute minimum). Still building and his left foot gives POD. Heart and soul Blueboy.
39. Alex Cincotta(R) - difficult read. Brought back after injury with limited impact. Needs promotion to the main list, and that may cost him with spots tight. Still see him as a defender who can go in to the middle rather than the Jack of all trades Voss sees him as. One rumour has him gone, which could have credence given his injury run and aging body.
41. Matt Duffy (R-B) - Likely has two years on his contract, so expect him to go on.
44. Francis Evans (R) - Supporters are finally coming around to him. Solid depth, but think he is going to struggle to maintain his spot given we are two rookies over quota.
45. Flynn Young (R) - Was excited at his signing, but, while getting some games, has not really shown enough of his quality left peg. Low possessions question if he is up to the level. Toss of a coin guven last in first off possibility.
With Doc retired, we will have ten other players turning 30 or older in 2026 and we need to manage their exits sensibly.
McGovern, Haynes and Fantasia are in the uncontracted and it would be good business to exit at least two of them this year. Potentially Saad could join them. Newman, Cripps, Williams, Acres, Hewett and Pittonet are the others who would all be considered best 22 if TDK defects.
- Status
Similar threads
