20th AFL Team

[Navy2005]

The awarding of the 20th AFL License presents a brilliant opportunity for the AFL to take the greatest sport in the world and start to put it on the International map. The best place to launch this is New Zealand. New Zealand has a big enough market, suitable ground/stadium, travel costs are manageable and their are a large number of ex pats that will at least form a starter supporters base. There are also Aussie Rules already being played there.
Whilst knockers will say that it can't co-exist with Rugby. It doesn't have to be the dominate code in the country. It possess all the infrastructure to be successful if the AFL is prepared to be patient. The ideal launching pad to start taking the sport to the rest of the world.

 

[Coolangatta]

The awarding of the 20th AFL License presents a brilliant opportunity for the AFL to take the greatest sport in the world and start to put it on the International map. The best place to launch this is New Zealand. New Zealand has a big enough market, suitable ground/stadium, travel costs are manageable and their are a large number of ex pats that will at least form a starter supporters base. There are also Aussie Rules already being played there.
Whilst knockers will say that it can't co-exist with Rugby. It doesn't have to be the dominate code in the country. It possess all the infrastructure to be successful if the AFL is prepared to be patient. The ideal launching pad to start taking the sport to the rest of the world.

Nah. Canberra is the best choice for team 20.

New Zealand maybe for team 21-22 but a lot of work needs to be done first.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

The awarding of the 20th AFL License presents a brilliant opportunity for the AFL to take the greatest sport in the world and start to put it on the International map. The best place to launch this is New Zealand. New Zealand has a big enough market, suitable ground/stadium, travel costs are manageable and their are a large number of ex pats that will at least form a starter supporters base. There are also Aussie Rules already being played there.
Whilst knockers will say that it can't co-exist with Rugby. It doesn't have to be the dominate code in the country. It possess all the infrastructure to be successful if the AFL is prepared to be patient. The ideal launching pad to start taking the sport to the rest of the world.

I like the premise of your argument, although the stadium situation is a major factor that is holding New Zealand back. If Sky Stadium (the cake tin) was based in Auckland then there’d be a bloody good chance that there’d already be a game or two being played in NZ. However, it’s based in the much smaller Wellington and Auckland’s main cricket ground is Eden Park, which is unsuitable for Aussie rules due to its odd dimensions. Hopefully Auckland can get their act together soon and develop a better oval stadium so we can start to see some progress in this space.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I like the premise of your argument, although the stadium situation is a major factor that is holding New Zealand back. If Sky Stadium (the cake tin) was based in Auckland then there’d be a bloody good chance that there’d already be a game or two being played in NZ. However, it’s based in the much smaller Wellington and Auckland’s main cricket ground is Eden Park, which is unsuitable for Aussie rules due to its odd dimensions. Hopefully Auckland can get their act together soon and develop a better oval stadium so we can start to see some progress in this space.

This is pretty much it.

If Auckland had started converting Western Springs when the idea was first mooted (~2015), NZ would absolutely be in the race for Team 20. It may have even beat Tassie for Team 19.

It'll probably be too late for Team 20, but with Tasmania coming in, that'll at least free up some Victorian teams to potentially play a few games there.

NZ seems like the perfect addition to a Friday night double header. It could be played early enough that people on the east coast can watch it at the pub after work, but it'll be late enough that locals in New Zealand can still get to it after work.

 

[RedV3x]

New Zealand maybe for team 21-22 but a lot of work needs to be done first.

A lot of work has been done but unfortunately it's been languishing due to unforeseen circumstances.

 

[Coolangatta]

Unless the push for northern population really ramps up, NT and NQ mightn't even be preferable for the 21/22 expansion round.

Assuming Canberra/WA3 for 20/21 (order TBD), the next expansion round would be ~2050-60. Other options could've jumped the queue by then.

The Sunshine Coat will have ~700k people and could still be without a full-time NRL team. Brisbane's northern suburbs will likely stretch pretty close by then, too.

Auckland should surely have its new cricket/AFL-standard stadium by then. Would assume building up to at least a few games a year in NZ by that point.

Greater Newcastle will have ~1m people. You'd assume with three NSW/ACT teams, there'd be more presence and Newcastle might be too big to ignore.

Greater Adelaide will hit 2.3m by then, if WA3 goes well, could be an impetus for SA3.

There's a few different aspirational targets for the northern cities, but they'll all likely still be under 400k by then.

Population isn't everything, but NT and NQ might have to settle for being secondary markets in a 22-team comp.

There might not ever be an expansion round for team 21 and 22. I'd like there to be, all of these markets sound promising, especially if the Suns and Giants become successful, but I'm sure if they fail that a third NSW or QLD side will never see the light of day.

The uncertainty of the AFL going beyond 20 teams is why I've always said Canberra should be team 20.

The NT, I think, in a capped 20 team comp, could always work as a Vic relocation model, as long as that club gets 11 games in Melbourne with extra access i.e. North Roos, 7 Darwin, 3 Melbourne, 1 Alice; 8 away Melbourne, 4-5 interstate trips.

Perth just seems like a waste to slam the door of expansion shut on.

If you're going to cap the comp at 20 teams, at least make it a new market.

 

[Walshawk]

Yeah probably a 7 and 4 split.

Populations including surrounding areas:
Darwin 130k
Cairns 170k
Alice 30k

Might make more sense to be based in cairns off that. Not sure.

I still like Canberra and Perth, but I know Eddie was pushing north qld and he often knows what the AFL is thinking.

Eddie has no idea about this stuff. Logistics and practicalities are not his thing. The AFL is not even thinking about a 20th club. They don’t even know if there will be an 19th!

NT and NQ are ridiculous concepts. Half the size of Geelong, miles from anywhere, cities which also have substantial RL support (majority in Cairns), horrible humid slippery conditions, very limited corporate support opportunities.

 

[Aussie in exile]

I like the premise of your argument, although the stadium situation is a major factor that is holding New Zealand back. If Sky Stadium (the cake tin) was based in Auckland then there’d be a bloody good chance that there’d already be a game or two being played in NZ. However, it’s based in the much smaller Wellington and Auckland’s main cricket ground is Eden Park, which is unsuitable for Aussie rules due to its odd dimensions. Hopefully Auckland can get their act together soon and develop a better oval stadium so we can start to see some progress in this space.

It won't come cheap with the stadium situation in New Zealand. They won't get the backing they have had in Tassie and will be expected to contribute a large amount to any rebuild or pay a high hire charge.
In my opinion it won't happen for many years it at all

 

[RedV3x]

NT and NQ are ridiculous concepts.

The Northern concept is closer to being with recent models.

cities which also have substantial RL support

WTF cares. It's about how much AFL support there is.

horrible humid slippery conditions, very limited corporate support opportunities.

Yes, but people are suggesting political opportunities and as we've seen Tasmania is very political.
Though political opportunities are fraught with danger.

 

[Canberra Pear]

There might not ever be an expansion round for team 21 and 22. I'd like there to be, all of these markets sound promising, especially if the Suns and Giants become successful, but I'm sure if they fail that a third NSW or QLD side will never see the light of day.

The uncertainty of the AFL going beyond 20 teams is why I've always said Canberra should be team 20.

The NT, I think, in a capped 20 team comp, could always work as a Vic relocation model, as long as that club gets 11 games in Melbourne with extra access i.e. North Roos, 7 Darwin, 3 Melbourne, 1 Alice; 8 away Melbourne, 4-5 interstate trips.

Perth just seems like a waste to slam the door of expansion shut on.

If you're going to cap the comp at 20 teams, at least make it a new market.

I think there'll be teams 21/22 in the future, but I do expect it to be a much longer gap. It'll be at least 2050.

If Canberra gets in, the comp will be as "complete" as it can be for a while.

 

[Coolangatta]

I think there'll be teams 21/22 in the future, but I do expect it to be a much longer gap. It'll be at least 2050.

If Canberra gets in, the comp will be as "complete" as it can be for a while.

I'm hoping that the ACT government are waiting to see if Tasmania does enter the competition or not before they bid for the 20th team. If Tassie comes in by 2028 and talk of a 20th team starts to ramp up, hopefully the ACT will put their hand up for a 2033 entrance. I suspect the AFL would consider it if the ACT comply with the standards they set, whether that be a new stadium or an upgraded Manuka.

I'm not sure if the ACT government would need federal funding or not; you would hope not, because they might not be as hungry for the team as Tasmania are, so I'm not sure they'd necessarily accept the AFL's requirements. As you've said before, though, the AFL will want the 20th team more than they wanted a 19th team, so maybe they'll be more lenient. I actually think that's a clever way they could market a rivalry between Tasmania and Canberra, with Tasmanians despising them for having an easier time entering the league. Despite even number teams logically going to have an easier time, the people of Tasmania may resent Canberra not having to enter under as stringent terms. Tassie v Canberra could make for a good, regular rivalry double up match.

Though far from my first mascot preference, it'd be even funnier if they were called the Canberra Cardinals, as an antithesis to Devils.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I'm hoping that the ACT government are waiting to see if Tasmania does enter the competition or not before they bid for the 20th team. If Tassie comes in by 2028 and talk of a 20th team starts to ramp up, hopefully the ACT will put their hand up for a 2033 entrance.

The loudest bids for Team 20 are the ones that have no chance. NT, Cairns and Bunbury (which I'm pretty sure was a joke).

NRL bids are done out in the public, that's not really the case for the AFL (minus Tasmania). I hope that's what happens with Team 20 and there's at least some conversations behind the scene with the ACT government.

I suspect the AFL would consider it if the ACT comply with the standards they set, whether that be a new stadium or an upgraded Manuka.

I do think the standards would be a case-by-case basis. I don't think it's a case of "Tasmania had to spend $750m, Team 20 should, too."

Canberra would need some cash spent, but definitely not $750m.The major difference between Canberra and Hobart's main stadiums is the location. If Blundstone Arena were in central Hobart, I expect it'd just need a slight redevelopment.

It was actually raised at a Senate inquiry last week about the possibility of an all-sports stadium in Canberra. I still don't think it'll happen, but would be great if it would (from an AFL team perspective). But, unsurprisingly, the NRL wasn't happy with the idea.

 

[RedV3x]

The loudest bids for Team 20 are the ones that have no chance. NT, Cairns and Bunbury (which I'm pretty sure was a joke).

Actually of those locations mentioned Bunbury is easily the most solid.
You have a region that loves football, has it's own league and people "commute" to Perth.
A boutique stadium in Bunbury and play the big games in Perth.

Canberra would need some cash spent, but definitely not $750m.

It was actually raised at a Senate inquiry last week about the possibility of an all-sports stadium in Canberra. I still don't think it'll happen,

Yes, it's rare that the sensible road is taken.

Cricket and football combined at the MCG though still flawed.
Cricket and football combined at Adelaide Oval quite sensationally.
Cricket and football eventually combined at the SCG after much shafting of football.
Cricket and football combined at the Gabba for mutual benefit.
Cricket and football didn't combine at the WACA for a major loss to cricket.
Cricket and football should combine at Hobart for mutual benefit.
An all-sports stadium would be sensible and a big boost to Canberra.

 

[Tigerlaird]

The AFL needs more Tiger teams. I reckon Glenelg should join the AFL.

Richmond v Glenelg can be known as the Tiger derby and could also be a mini state of origin as it’s the Vic Tiges v SA Tiges. (Missed opportunity from the AFL in regards to Port Power!)

Basically Glenelg should pull a Brisbane Tigers!

 

[Canberra Pear]

Hawthorn is building a presence in Cairns with their AFLW team.

They hosted their pre-season camp (including school visits) earlier this month, and they'll be hosting one of their five home games at Cazalys Stadium.

Considering they've had a two-decade partnership with Launceston, I would've assumed York Park would be the obvious choice for a game.

Is this a part of Hawthorn transitioning from Launceston to a new secondary home? Will it lead to Hawks men's games in Cairns?

Cairns was already a ridiculous option for Team 20, but you wouldn't think Hawthorn would be investing there if they thought they'd be coming in just after Tasmania.

 

[Coolangatta]

Hawthorn is building a presence in Cairns with their AFLW team.

They hosted their pre-season camp (including school visits) earlier this month, and they'll be hosting one of their five home games at Cazalys Stadium.

Considering they've had a two-decade partnership with Launceston, I would've assumed York Park would be the obvious choice for a game.

Is this a part of Hawthorn transitioning from Launceston to a new secondary home? Will it lead to Hawks men's games in Cairns?

Cairns was already a ridiculous option for Team 20, but you wouldn't think Hawthorn would be investing there if they thought they'd be coming in just after Tasmania.

Would like to see the Hawks play 3 games in Cairns from 2028. If the AFL is keen on a NQ team as part of an expansion to 22 teams, they need a team to test that market. Get the Roos up in Darwin for 3 games a year and the top end could really get a good trial run for long term expansion.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Would like to see the Hawks play 3 games in Cairns from 2028. If the AFL is keen on a NQ team as part of an expansion to 22 teams, they need a team to test that market. Get the Roos up in Darwin for 3 games a year and the top end could really get a good trial run for long term expansion.

I'd like to see regular games in all three major NQ cities.

Cairns, Mackay and Townsville have all had AFL/W games, so they've got the stadiums. If you get each of them up to hosting three games each, then that shows they're likely capable of hosting a team combined.

 

[Coolangatta]

I'd like to see regular games in all three major NQ cities.

Cairns, Mackay and Townsville have all had AFL/W games, so they've got the stadiums. If you get each of them up to hosting three games each, then that shows they're likely capable of hosting a team combined.

So would I, but who’s going to host the games?

Dogs have Ballarat, Saints want to stay in Melbourne, Roos and Hawks after Tassie maybe can take two of the three. Suns would not play more than 2 games in NQ if they did leave NT. Dees have Alice Springs. Just not sure where it’s coming from.

 

[Bjo187]

Doesn't it makes sense for the suns to play in North Queensland, maybe along with the hawks, then for the kangaroos to play in Darwin?

I think that is a better spread. Gold coast don't even need the n.t with their local academy punching out quality now and it just makes sense for them to increase their footprint in their own state.

 

[Coolangatta]

Doesn't it makes sense for the suns to play in North Queensland, maybe along with the hawks, then for the kangaroos to play in Darwin?

I think that is a better spread. Gold coast don't even need the n.t with their local academy punching out quality now and it just makes sense for them to increase their footprint in their own state.

Sure but not 3 games.

Should be minimum 9 games at the GC.

If the Hawks are keen on Cairns, maybe the Suns could play 1 each in Townsville and Mackay.

Presumably, a NQ team would play the majority of its games in Cairns so they’d need to have more than 1 game to test out.

So:

Hawks 3 Cairns, Suns 1 Townsville and Mackay, Roos 3 Darwin, Dees 1 Alice Springs, Dogs 2 Ballarat. Secondary markets sorted.

Would also like to see the Giants play 1 in Newcastle and see if they can get the Saints playing 1 Sunshine Coast game but there’s just no way all the interesting prospective markets can be tested at once.

 

[Tigerlaird]

North Queensland Hawks

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Doesn't it makes sense for the suns to play in North Queensland, maybe along with the hawks, then for the kangaroos to play in Darwin?

I think that is a better spread. Gold coast don't even need the n.t with their local academy punching out quality now and it just makes sense for them to increase their footprint in their own state.

Yes, I know they have the NT Academy but the Suns should ideally play their two current NT games in Queensland secondary markets like Cairns. Maybe even rebrand as the Queensland Suns, as an alternative to the Brisbane based Lions?

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Hawthorn is building a presence in Cairns with their AFLW team.

They hosted their pre-season camp (including school visits) earlier this month, and they'll be hosting one of their five home games at Cazalys Stadium.

Considering they've had a two-decade partnership with Launceston, I would've assumed York Park would be the obvious choice for a game.

Is this a part of Hawthorn transitioning from Launceston to a new secondary home? Will it lead to Hawks men's games in Cairns?

Cairns was already a ridiculous option for Team 20, but you wouldn't think Hawthorn would be investing there if they thought they'd be coming in just after Tasmania.

I think it’s good that the Victorian clubs are taking games to secondary markets. However, I thought in the immediate aftermath of the Tasmanian T19 decision, Hawthorn were looking at still playing a couple of matches in Launceston based on the fans, members and sponsors they had established during their almost two decades relationship there. Also Hawthorn’s big enough, unlike Norths, to move all its 4 Launceston home games back to Melbourne?

 

[Canberra Pear]

I think it’s good that the Victorian clubs are taking games to secondary markets. However, I thought in the immediate aftermath of the Tasmanian T19 decision, Hawthorn were looking at still playing a couple of matches in Launceston based on the fans, members and sponsors they had established during their almost two decades relationship there. Also Hawthorn’s big enough, unlike Norths, to move all its 4 Launceston home games back to Melbourne?

I can't see any Tasmanian government money left to buy Hawthorn games after how much they've committed to the Tasmanian team.

And I can't see Hawthorn playing a game down there out of the goodness of their heart.

Hawthorn have also relatively recently sold off their pokies, so their Tassie well and pokies well are drying up just a few years apart.

Cairns (or any secondary market) could plug a hole while they transition to pokie-free operations.

 

[RedV3x]

Is this a part of Hawthorn transitioning from Launceston to a new secondary home? Will it lead to Hawks men's games in Cairns?

No, it's just Hawthorn being a professional outfit.
They put a huge amount of work into New Zealand, a lot more than Tasmania.