Past #32: Mason Wood - 65 NM games/76 NM goals - delisted end '20 - SSP selection for STK '21 - GL Mase

[GarnerSmash]

I think it was the combination of injuries, the streak of losses, the collective angst at another wasted season and then the thought of losing him as his manager is Pickers.

Any of those issues individually would have caused minor meltdowns, but as they all came at once, the combined feeling of loss meant it was a perfect storm for the naysayers.

And had he been managed by Scott Lucas or some other noob the angst wouldn't have been so severe.

You're probably spot on.

 

[Zebrah]

Hands down some of the weakest behaviour on here.

I'm trusting the posters in question can link us up to their posts emphatically arguing the contrary BEFORE Mason 're-signed?

See, the difference is, you see it as "who was right?".

I see it as calling out some of the unjustified, negative criticism that is rife on this board.

 

[King Corey]

See, the difference is, you see it as "who was right?".

I see it as calling out some of the unjustified, negative criticism that is rife on this board.

I see it as if those posters have the conviction to state an opinion on an internet forum that puts their neck out for a chop they don't need people potting them after the fact.

They really wanted Mason to stay as did we all I'd imagine and I don't see merit in ridiculing them just because it might've lead to some overzealous typing. But each to their own.

 

[Black2Blue]

Never in doubt.....

Now can just sit back and enjoy watching him play without that gnawing feeling in the gut.

 

[czero]

Why pretend when it's there in black and white, typed by you a couple of hours ago?

I'd just like to point out, that you are totally trolling me. Now I really don't mind the back and forth, or an exchange of strong opinions, but this really sucks mate.

Here is what you said to my very first response to you bagging out another person.

LOL. Interesting strategy for saving face after being proven wrong. Make your next post even more wrong. Cool.

I've asked you to try and give me some evidence of my being proved wrong, but you wont supply it. Don't continue to pretend like you didn't say it.

If you are not a troll, please stop misdirecting my question and provide a quote.

As for what I'm saying in this thread, yeah I do not understand how people, or how you in particular, can believe so strongly that we would of given him a 4 year contract, or any player a 4 year contract after seeing what was it, 10 games at the start of the year. I also find really troubling (given our old man forward line) that he had not been signed earlier, or that we could not see his development internally was going so well. If he was looking great we should of got him.

 

[Kimbo]

I see it as if those posters have the conviction to state an opinion on an internet forum that puts their neck out for a chop they don't need people potting them after the fact.

They really wanted Mason to stay as did we all I'd imagine and I don't see merit in ridiculing them just because it might've lead to some overzealous typing. But each to their own.

Can't agree. It's like congratulating Pauline Hanson or Donald Trump for 'plain speaking'. The content matters.

In this case because it was baseless, negative and ultimately unjustified. I wouldn't advocate the 'hindsight bump' as a regular practice but warranted here imho.

 

[King Corey]

Can't agree. It's like congratulating Pauline Hanson or Donald Trump for 'plain speaking'. The content matters.

In this case because it was baseless, negative and ultimately unjustified. I wouldn't advocate the 'hindsight bump' as a regular practice but warranted here imho.

But each to their own.

 

[Rooboy 96]

I'd just like to point out, that you are totally trolling me. Now I really don't mind the back and forth, or an exchange of strong opinions, but this really sucks mate.

Here is what you said to my very first response to you bagging out another person.


I've asked you to try and give me some evidence of my being proved wrong, but you wont supply it. Don't continue to pretend like you didn't say it.

If you are not a troll, please stop misdirecting my question and provide a quote.

As for what I'm saying in this thread, yeah I do not understand how people, or how you in particular, can believe so strongly that we would of given him a 4 year contract, or any player a 4 year contract after seeing what was it, 10 games at the start of the year. I also find really troubling (given our old man forward line) that he had not been signed earlier, or that we could not see his development internally was going so well. If he was looking great we should of got him.

was he looking great his time last year? still not sure he has proven he is any better the what Black was when we gave him a 5 year extension, but then when push comes to shove sometimes you have to go a little harder then you wanted. Fingers crossed this turns out better then Black.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

I'd just like to point out, that you are totally trolling me. Now I really don't mind the back and forth, or an exchange of strong opinions, but this really sucks mate.

Here is what you said to my very first response to you bagging out another person.


I've asked you to try and give me some evidence of my being proved wrong, but you wont supply it. Don't continue to pretend like you didn't say it.

If you are not a troll, please stop misdirecting my question and provide a quote.

As for what I'm saying in this thread, yeah I do not understand how people, or how you in particular, can believe so strongly that we would of given him a 4 year contract, or any player a 4 year contract after seeing what was it, 10 games at the start of the year. I also find really troubling (given our old man forward line) that he had not been signed earlier, or that we could not see his development internally was going so well. If he was looking great we should of got him.

Stop sooking. You made some incorrect, conflicting statements and I called you on them.

Earlier in the thread, you were pushing the line that Wood would either leave, or we would pay well overs to retain him. I argued along the lines that posts like that (many others made them) were needlessly hysterical, because the most likely scenario was that he would stay but appropriate remuneration was still under discussion. Know why I was confident? Because this was by far the most likely outcome based on the club's history, what Wood has actually achieved, and what people with some inside knowledge were saying.

As I explicitly stated, I had no inside knowledge, but it was a fairly straightforward exercise in logic. That's why I was suggesting people should stop panicking and accusing the club of messing up a situation that frankly, looked well in hand.

And so the likely scenario is what transpired. Many of us weren't surprised by yesterday's announcement. Sure, I had no inkling of the timing of the re-signing announcement, length of contract, or amount he would be paid (so don't go suggesting I believed "strongly" he would be given a 4-year contract, I never said anything like that). But I was comfortable that the announcement that Wood had re-signed would come out sooner or later.

Yes, you were more concerned and we all would hate to lose Wood. What I took exception to was the criticism of the club before the deed was even done. And then you come out yesterday and make factually incorrect statements to prop up your "bad list management" hypothesis.

So cop it sweet, dude, you got it wrong. No biggie. In the end, we all got what we wanted.

 

[Jeremy Jordan]

4 year contract. That is a long time. To put that into perspective, if a child was born today, in 4 years time they will be 4 years old.

Love Mason though. He is the closet thing to Carey since Roy Ramsay.

 

[DunderHead]

Five weeks of losses and the negativity and criticism reaches epic proportions on this site. People can post whatever they choose but damn some people make it difficult to want to come here sometimes. For most of us this is a pasttime. We talk footy because we enjoy it but this forum becomes a cesspool of negativity and unsubstanciated snide remarks which isnt an enjoyable place to be around.

Some people need to ask themselves before they post whether they're adding anything to the forum or they are simply expelling anger and disappointment with the way the season is unfolding. You know when its an emotional response because theres no real logic or facts to backup what people are saying.

Im not saying that Im above all that either. Im sure ive posted a lot of negative stuff over the years but there comes a time when you have to move on.

 

[jclei]

 

[Shermanator]

Five weeks of losses and the negativity and criticism reaches epic proportions on this site. People can post whatever they choose but damn some people make it difficult to want to come here sometimes. For most of us this is a pasttime. We talk footy because we enjoy it but this forum becomes a cesspool of negativity and unsubstanciated snide remarks which isnt an enjoyable place to be around.

Some people need to ask themselves before they post whether they're adding anything to the forum or they are simply expelling anger and disappointment with the way the season is unfolding. You know when its an emotional response because theres no real logic or facts to backup what people are saying.

Im not saying that Im above all that either. Im sure ive posted a lot of negative stuff over the years but there comes a time when you have to move on.

Soooo.... you're happy/not happy we re-signed Mason for another 4?...

 

[Phillyroo]

Pfft - We would have to be very ignorant to think that mason leaving wasn't a good chance.

Remember, we just paid a hell of a lot more than we needed too to make it happen. Start of the year we could of offered 2 years on less money, but our people did not see the talent (somehow into his 4th year with us they dont see it).

If you want a gamble with me, then I'd say this is an almost certainty that Petrie is now gone next year, possibly Waite too.

This is BAD LIST MANAGEMENT.

Its GREAT that we have mason, but our list management team needs to have a good look internally.

Wow... Making a big pitch for crappest post of the year here.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

Was going to bump Arjen's post for a laugh but he's copped enough. We all make predictions that don't come off.

Why don't you bump all the morons that had a go at me for saying pay the kid $450k x 4, 3 months ago?

That would make more sense.

 

[czero]

Stop sooking. You made some incorrect, conflicting statements and I called you on them.

Earlier in the thread, you were pushing the line that Wood would either leave, or we would pay well overs to retain him. I argued along the lines that posts like that (many others made them) were needlessly hysterical, because the most likely scenario was that he would stay but appropriate remuneration was still under discussion. Know why I was confident? Because this was by far the most likely outcome based on the club's history, what Wood has actually achieved, and what people with some inside knowledge were saying.

As I explicitly stated, I had no inside knowledge, but it was a fairly straightforward exercise in logic. That's why I was suggesting people should stop panicking and accusing the club of messing up a situation that frankly, looked well in hand.

And so the likely scenario is what transpired. Many of us weren't surprised by yesterday's announcement. Sure, I had no inkling of the timing of the re-signing announcement, length of contract, or amount he would be paid (so don't go suggesting I believed "strongly" he would be given a 4-year contract, I never said anything like that). But I was comfortable that the announcement that Wood had re-signed would come out sooner or later.

Yes, you were more concerned and we all would hate to lose Wood. What I took exception to was the criticism of the club before the deed was even done. And then you come out yesterday and make factually incorrect statements to prop up your "bad list management" hypothesis.

So cop it sweet, dude, you got it wrong. No biggie. In the end, we all got what we wanted.

I appreciate the more detailed response. If I have to sook to get it then I'm ok with that.

We got the player we wanted, sure, but not for the terms we should of.

I've been consistent in my opinion, I'm not sure where I have been conflicting? Once we learnt about the offers from other clubs, my views were that it was bad list management to got us in that position, and that we would indeed sign him and have to pay a long term contract similar to blacks. Thats been my view, posted many times in this forum, and it has not changed. You might also like to go back and find that I suspected very early on that other clubs (saints specifically) were after him from seeing the post match comments from early in the season.

I'd like to support my suggestion that its bad list management with the following comparison to where we have done a good job with list management.

Good list management
ben brown - signed end of last year for a 2 year contract extension (till 2018)
at that time
Age 22
33 games
50/26 score ~(1.5 / 0.5)
151 marks ~(5)
331 disp ~(10)

Bad list management
mason wood - signed 4 year contract (till 2020)
Age 22
16 games
16/15 score ~(1/1)
17 marks ~(1)
218 Disp ~(13.5)

Now I don't believe that direct number comparisons are the end all and be all of this discussion, as I've said before wood has more upside to me than any other player on our list just down to physical gifts - however upside doesn't get you awesome contracts. For me its very clear, we should of been in the box seat with this young man, and we should of bought into his future at the end of last year just as we did with brown as we just were not seeing enough signs with the other young forwards at our club to unseat mason as the best of the rest after brown.

 

[Psicosis]

A forward line of Mason Wood and Ben Brown will be elite - if any of McKay or Durdin come on, it's just an added extra, but there is definitely a lot less pressure knowing that Wood is there to carry the load.

 

[Passmore]

I appreciate the more detailed response. If I have to sook to get it then I'm ok with that.

We got the player we wanted, sure, but not for the terms we should of.

I've been consistent in my opinion, I'm not sure where I have been conflicting? Once we learnt about the offers from other clubs, my views were that it was bad list management to got us in that position, and that we would indeed sign him and have to pay a long term contract similar to blacks. Thats been my view, posted many times in this forum, and it has not changed. You might also like to go back and find that I suspected very early on that other clubs (saints specifically) were after him from seeing the post match comments from early in the season.

I'd like to support my suggestion that its bad list management with the following comparison to where we have done a good job with list management.

Good list management
ben brown - signed end of last year for a 2 year contract extension (till 2018)
at that time
Age 22
33 games
50/26 score ~(1.5 / 0.5)
151 marks ~(5)
331 disp ~(10)

Bad list management
mason wood - signed 4 year contract (till 2020)
Age 22
16 games
16/15 score ~(1/1)
17 marks ~(1)
218 Disp ~(13.5)

Now I don't believe that direct number comparisons are the end all and be all of this discussion, as I've said before wood has more upside to me than any other player on our list just down to physical gifts - however upside doesn't get you awesome contracts. For me its very clear, we should of been in the box seat with this young man, and we should of bought into his future at the end of last year just as we did with brown as we just were not seeing enough signs with the other young forwards at our club to unseat mason as the best of the rest after brown.

The problem is though, we aren't actually privvy to the negotiations with Wood or when they started. We may have pit an offer to him late last year or early this year. He's not obliged to accept the first offer we put in front of him. Particularly if opposition teams are sniffing around.

 

[Kimbo]

Bad list management
mason wood - signed 4 year contract (till 2020)

For me its very clear, we should of been in the box seat with this young man, and we should of bought into his future at the end of last year just as we did with brown...

You're assuming we didn't make offers earlier, quite possibly along the lines of what you've suggested. It's been suggested a few times now that it takes two to tango. How do you know, with the apparent certainty that you have, that any hold up was a club decision?

 

[Black2Blue]

4 year contract. That is a long time. To put that into perspective, if a child was born today, in 4 years time they will be 4 years old.

Love Mason though. He is the closet thing to Carey since Roy Ramsay.

Give me Mason's 4yo kid over Tom Boyd's 7yo and Buddy Franklin's 9yo million-dollar kids.

And good to see some JJ posting back on board.

 

[Firestarter]

Give me Mason's 4yo kid over Tom Boyd's 7yo and Buddy Franklin's 9yo million-dollar kids.

And good to see some JJ posting back on board.

Especially at Boyd's price. Real pedigree deals at Dogs.

 

[hilly]

Why don't you bump all the morons that had a go at me for saying pay the kid $450k x 4, 3 months ago?

That would make more sense.

Can't...be bothered...

 

[Heaps of fun]

4 year contract. That is a long time. To put that into perspective, if a child was born today, in 4 years time they will be 4 years old.

Love Mason though. He is the closet thing to Carey since Roy Ramsay.

OK I have to ask who Roy Ramsay is to get this one.

 

[blackshadow]

Geebus who cares he's signed and will form half of the most natural forward line we've ever seen; Brown Wood.

Brown wood? Am I on the right website?

:stern look:

The horse duck duo might have a thing to say about most natural forward line duo too. Jisse may have something to say about horse duck too...

 

[Firestarter]

Disappointed that we (myself included shamefully) had gos at each other instead of Wood's would be suitors.

Distinct lack of smug.