Player Watch #5: Caleb Daniel

[ferball]

NM have gone from dead last by a distance in 2024 to third in the comp in 2025 for average score from kick ins.

Yeah i know. I think its still something like going from 1 pt per game to 5.8 tho. IE less than a goal a game from kick ins.

I don't think he's been as bad as everyone makes out. He hasn't been great either but its obvious he's used to playing in a system and playing with guys who move to create space and lead across the ground instead of standing still and pointing at their heads.

The reality is the trade price is considered too high and that's exacerbated by trading this years first round pick to get another pick around what we payed for him. So people are valuing him in comparison to our first round pick. IE Every little thing that isn't perfect get magnified and whatever good he does do is ignored.

The reality is two more goals from two games and we're pushing to get out of the bottom six now for the first time this decade. That would reframe the discussion a little bit. As it is tho that series of decisions looks worse every week.

 

[TiAn_]

Yeah i know. I think its still something like going from 1 pt per game to 5.8 tho. IE less than a goal a game from kick ins.

I don't think he's been as bad as everyone makes out. He hasn't been great either but its obvious he's used to playing in a system and playing with guys who move to create space and lead across the ground instead of standing still and pointing at their heads.

The reality is the trade price is considered too high and that's exacerbated by trading this years first round pick to get another pick around what we payed for him. So people are valuing him in comparison to our first round pick. IE Every little thing that isn't perfect get magnified and whatever good he does do is ignored.

The reality is two more goals from two games and we're pushing to get out of the eight now for the first time this decade. That would reframe the discussion a little bit. As it is tho that series of decisions looks worse every week.

Basically all of NM’s transition stats have improved year on year too.

	2024	2025
Chain to Sc%	16.2	17.9
D50 to F50%	18.1	19.5
D50 to Sc%	6.5	9.1
Def half to F50%	27.0	26.6
Def half to Sc%	8.9	10.3

Source: Wheelo

 

[Epictetus]

Blaming others for Daniel's failings is just bullshit. He can't move, kick or defend. And he makes the game harder for others.

He has two more years after his to chew up, what 1.2 million?

Awesome.

 

[CBSlogger]

You have to laugh, the dogs have really done a number on us

Absolutely.

For those who don't see this as a diabolical trade, reverse the situation: what's the likelihood we'd get pick 25 for a player of ours who plays 8 games in the 2s this year?

 

[perplexed]

Basically all of NM’s transition stats have improved year on year too.

	2024	2025
Chain to Sc%	16.2	17.9
D50 to F50%	18.1	19.5
D50 to Sc%	6.5	9.1
Def half to F50%	27.0	26.6
Def half to Sc%	8.9	10.3

Source: Wheelo

Aren't all of those stats the worst in the league, or close to it?

 

[The Nostradamus]

Absolutely.

For those who don't see this as a diabolical trade, reverse the situation: what's the likelihood we'd get pick 25 for a player of ours who played 8 games in the 2s this year?

It’s only fair that they now have to give us a second rounder for bailey scott

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

Are you still confused?

Reading the first few pages of this thread gives us all a pretty good understanding of the posters who have some idea about football and those that don't.

And there are no surprises - the usual club sycophants who post here again hopelessly wrong about this trade.

 

[Loose_Cannon]

Yeah i know. I think its still something like going from 1 pt per game to 5.8 tho. IE less than a goal a game from kick ins.

I don't think he's been as bad as everyone makes out. He hasn't been great either but its obvious he's used to playing in a system and playing with guys who move to create space and lead across the ground instead of standing still and pointing at their heads.

The reality is the trade price is considered too high and that's exacerbated by trading this years first round pick to get another pick around what we payed for him. So people are valuing him in comparison to our first round pick. IE Every little thing that isn't perfect get magnified and whatever good he does do is ignored.

The reality is two more goals from two games and we're pushing to get out of the eight now for the first time this decade. That would reframe the discussion a little bit. As it is tho that series of decisions looks worse every week.

Lachie Jacques is who the Dogs took with that pick, so people should just keep that name in mind.

We may also have taken the other Whitlock or Shanahan at that pick based on needs. I'd like to see his output in years 2 and 3, with what will hopefully be a more functional system for him to operate in, before you decide the trade was a dud or not. Of the three* imports I liked this one the least.

*JK Steak Knives not included in the tally

 

[ferball]

Basically all of NM’s transition stats have improved year on year too.

	2024	2025
Chain to Sc%	16.2	17.9
D50 to F50%	18.1	19.5
D50 to Sc%	6.5	9.1
Def half to F50%	27.0	26.6
Def half to Sc%	8.9	10.3

Source: Wheelo

Yeah but in tiny increments.

Its still shithouse.

 

[ferball]

Lachie Jacques is who the Dogs took with that pick, so people should just keep that name in mind.

We may also have taken the other Whitlock or Shanahan at that pick based on needs. I'd like to see his output in years 2 and 3, with what will hopefully be a more functional system for him to operate in, before you decide the trade was a dud or not. Of the three* imports I liked this one the least.

*JK Steak Knives not included in the tally

It wouldn't surprise me if we would have traded that pick anyway, even if we didn't take Daniel.

 

[Loose_Cannon]

It wouldn't surprise me if we would have traded that pick anyway, even if we didn't take Daniel.

Of course. Or picked another midfielder.

 

[Zondor]

Blaming others for Daniel's failings is just bullshit. He can't move, kick or defend. And he makes the game harder for others.

He has two more years after his to chew up, what 1.2 million?

Awesome.

I don’t think Daniel has been as bad as everyone makes out.

 

[TiAn_]

Aren't all of those stats the worst in the league, or close to it?

Scores from kick ins is third in the league, chain to score fourth last, the rest are at the bottom. But you were through the basement in all of them last year, significantly gapped by 17th across the board. That’s not the case any more. I’m not sure how much improvement people expect when last year you were unfathomably awful at transitioning the ball by every single measure. I get that Caleb hasn’t single handedly fixed that, but he’s come into one of the worst football teams we’ve seen in decades as the designated user in the defensive half and all of the transition metrics have noticeably improved. I doubt he gets dropped unless there’s an another alternative that wasn’t there last year, as what was there last year was much worse.

 

[perplexed]

Scores from kick ins is third in the league, chain to score fourth last, the rest are at the bottom. But you were through the basement in all of them last year, significantly gapped by 17th across the board. That’s not the case any more. I’m not sure how much improvement people expect when last year you were unfathomably awful at transitioning the ball by every single measure. I get that Caleb hasn’t single handedly fixed that, but he’s come into one of the worst football teams we’ve seen in decades as the designated user in the defensive half and all of the transition metrics have noticeably improved. I doubt he gets dropped unless there’s an another alternative that wasn’t there last year, as what was there last year was much worse.

Our rebound really hasn't improved at all. Scores from kick-ins by itself is a useless stat as it only amounts to a couple of points a game and could be high because the opposition are going all-in exploiting a weakness and occasionally cough-up a goal over the back. More significant is how often you get the ball out of your defensive half without turning it over from kick-in and how often the kick-in gets turned over for a score to the opposition. I suspect we are very high for the last one.

Caleb isn't defending, he isn't attacking, his first thought is ball retention (in any direction). Teams are pressing very high when he gets the ball and he doesn't have the penetration with either his running or kicking to get through the defense. He has been a total disaster. Please take him back!

 

[Zondor]

Well if everyone else is like you they're too stupid to see what's in front of them.

Continue to regale us with your nonsensical takes of all things football and in life. It’s amusing. :stern look

What I see is a footballer padding his stats by playing on from kick outs, running this a-way and that a-way, as he has no idea where to kick the ball.

And once he finally makes a decision he either kicks the ball short whereby his teammate who marks it is called to play on or he kicks a longer 40 metre floater that lacks penetration to a contest or he simply kicks it to the opposition.

And when this same footballer has to defend, he positions himself poorly and struggles to defend one on one because of his size.

The guy lacks zip, an ability to break the lines, lacks penetration with his kicking and has pretty much been awful this year.

Oh but Daniel hasn’t been as bad as everyone makes out.

 

[CBSlogger]

It’s only fair that they now have to give us a second rounder for bailey scott

Great equivalent. Bailey finished 3rd in a b&f before a similar drop off. Reality is we'd be lucky to get a 3rd rounder.

 

[Zondor]

Now guys. Because I see things that only my eyes can see, this has to be said. The reality is two more goals from two games and we're pushing to get out of the eight now for the first time this decade.

 

[Zondor]

It’s only fair that they now have to give us a second rounder for bailey scott

Make it happen Funky Nostradamus. :stern look

 

[ferball]

Continue to regale us with your nonsensical takes of all things football and in life. It’s amusing. :stern look

What I see is a footballer padding his stats by playing on from kick outs, running this a-way and that a-way, as he has no idea where to kick the ball.

Why do you think this is?

And once he finally makes a decision he either kicks the ball short whereby his teammate who marks it is called to play on or he kicks a longer 40 metre floater that lacks penetration to a contest or he simply kicks it to the opposition.

These two issues stem from the same cause.

And when this same footballer has to defend, he positions himself poorly and struggles to defend one on one because of his size.

Yes, he tiny.

The guy lacks zip, an ability to break the lines, lacks penetration with his kicking and has pretty much been awful this year.

Oh but Daniel hasn’t been as bad as everyone makes out.

He hasn't. There's a hell of a lot of posters who say he has done absolutely nothing this year. This is wrong.

You are a medieval thinker when it comes to football. You can't get beyond seeing the game in terms of individuals instead of systems. This is despite the constant talk of systems by successful coaches like McCrae, Fagan etc and by former coaches in the media like Horse and Simmo. You're stuck in last century and don't want to understand modern football.

However if you want to obsess about individuals moving the needle ... since Daniel started stat padding with kick outs this year we've increased our score from kickouts per game by over 500% and gone from the worst side in the comp to one of the best. Weren't you one of those posters who constantly complained about our inability to score from kickouts last year?

Next time he's kicking out don't watch Daniel, watch what's happening up the field. Have a look at how stagnant it is and how often our players completely fail to create space thru movement. You'll notice other players have the same issues from kick in as well. In fact its a shit show. This is particularly obvious on tv so if you are at the game, watch the replays afterward. You might even notice a correlation between the number of times Daniel and other players move back and forth looking for a target from the kickout and how stagnant we are up field.

Then watch the way some of the other teams set up their kick outs. The good ones create space most of the time, the other ones look like we do most of the time.

 

[Epictetus]

Why do you think this is?



These two issues stem from the same cause.



Yes, he tiny.



He hasn't. There's a hell of a lot of posters who say he has done absolutely nothing this year. This is wrong.

You are a medieval thinker when it comes to football. You can't get beyond seeing the game in terms of individuals instead of systems. This is despite the constant talk of systems by successful coaches like McCrae, Fagan etc and by former coaches in the media like Horse and Simmo. You're stuck in last century and don't want to understand modern football.

However if you want to obsess about individuals moving the needle ... since Daniel started stat padding with kick outs this year we've increased our score from kickouts per game by over 500% and gone from the worst side in the comp to one of the best. Weren't you one of those posters who constantly complained about our inability to score from kickouts last year?

Next time he's kicking out don't watch Daniel, watch what's happening up the field. Have a look at how stagnant it is and how often our players completely fail to create space thru movement. You'll notice other players have the same issues from kick in as well. In fact its a shit show. This is particularly obvious on tv so if you are at the game, watch the replays afterward. You might even notice a correlation between the number of times Daniel and other players move back and forth looking for a target from the kickout and how stagnant we are up field.

Then watch the way some of the other teams set up their kick outs. The good ones create space most of the time, the other ones look like we do most of the time.

You have to be hoping beyond hope that you're not called out here. Sweating bullets.

You have offered nothing by way of actual analysis as to what he's doing to help the side. It's all waffle.
Citing people on TV is the last refuge of a fraud.

He helps not in contest, ball progression or penetration. He doesn't create his own space for himself or for others and he ensures teams can squeeze and layer out and never have to slide from the weak side.
His defensive stuff leaves as one short in his own match up and our ability to create an extra to win the ball back.

He is a dream to coach against. A free hit.

 

[ferball]

You have to be hoping beyond hope that you're not called out here. Sweating bullets.

You have offered nothing by way of actual analysis as to what he's doing to help the side. It's all waffle.
Citing people on TV is the last refuge of a fraud.

He helps not in contest, ball progression or penetration. He doesn't create his own space for himself or for others and he ensures teams can squeeze and layer out and never have to slide from the weak side.
His defensive stuff leaves as one short in his own match up and our ability to create an extra to win the ball back.

He is a dream to coach against. A free hit.

This straight up not true. He wins multiple contests he has no right to every game which is pretty bloody amazing for someone as short as him.

How is he sposed to create space for others on the backline when he's kicking out and our players basically set up like a defending zone and then stand still?

 

[Errol Street]

i do agree his form is a reflection about how bad the rest of the team is but regardless of that he does not have form.

 

[Blightys Barrel]

I think the level of dissatisfaction is raised by certain factors at play here.

1. If he only cost us a 3R in the trade. Mild disappointment, but he and the team will work with his strengths and get it right some time this year.
2. If it was only 2 years and a 3R, then we had a swing and it was a miss and therefore a higher level of Disappointment.
3. 4 years and a 2R, and he comes with a reputation to instantly be the best kick in the Club and sort out our backline transition. Extremely disappointed and simply not in our best 22. Only being played because the Head Coach is stubborn and does not want to admit he recruited a dud on big coin.

 

[scottywiper]

Geez he's good , takes the game on .

For all are ****ing around with some of our trades. Early days but we have nailed the four this year.

Dinkers.....what happened between you two?????

 

[TheNorthFan]

Just painful to watch CD play, hopefully Hardeman or FOS are trusted with the kick-ins. Miserable kick-ins on the weekend. Hopefully the coaches make the changes and give CD a spell in the VFL.