Remove this Banner Ad

List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

Will the Crows pick up any of these players in the off-season?


  • Total voters
    77
  • Poll closed .

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Look, this is a pointless argument.

I'm going to point towards the number of times he was brought back into the side to show how close to best 22 he's considered. You're going to say that doesn't matter, for some reason.

Sure, they could just cut someone who's contracted. You'd think Himmelburg was more likely, considering he was left in the 2nds for pretty much the whole year until they started showcasing him as a possible trade option. But you do you, Vader.
Does the name Richard Douglas mean anything to you? There are plenty of players who have been regular contributors throughout the year, only to be cut at the end of it.

The question is whether or not we'll cut a contracted player. We have the salary cap space to do so, and we're tight for list spaces. If ever there's a year where it's likely, 2021 is that year.

I'm not saying that he will definitely go - but he could go, depending on how the cards fall in other areas (e.g. whether Matt Crouch stays, what trades they intend to do).

** Well that was prescient - Matt Crouch's re-signing has just been announced, making list spaces even tighter.
 
Last edited:
What is the point of the rookie list these days?
Players drafted onto the rookie list are only given 1 year contracts, compared to 2 years for drafted onto the senior list. The rookie draft is conducted after the national draft. In combination, it still provides the clubs with an opportunity to select some more speculative picks - and to cut them quickly if they don't show enough promise in their first year.
Is there a salary limit for players on the rookie list?
Keays, for one, has shown he is a best 22 for us and deserves to be on a decent remuneration.
No salary limit, but the first (approx) $80K of their salary is outside the salary cap - which is why many clubs (including Adelaide) prefer to have a full rookie list, rather than a full senior list. There is nothing to stop Adelaide from paying Keays $400K while he's on the rookie list, of which only $320K is included in the salary cap.
 
Why would the team want to upgrade him, if they don't have to? It costs you an earlier pick - you end up adding someone in the rookie draft instead of the main draft.

EDIT - as others have said in this thread, we probably want to upgrade at least one so we don't have to do three upgrades in 2023.

It just seems unusual to have one of your best 5 players on the rookie list for a 3rd year, but I suppose the days of that actually meaning anything are done. I’m sure his contract is not reflective of “rookie” status.
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

Does the name Richard Douglas mean anything to you? There are plenty of players who have been regular contributors throughout the year, only to be cut at the end of it.

The question is whether or not we'll cut a contracted player. We have the salary cap space to do so, and we're tight for list spaces. If ever there's a year where it's likely, 2021 is that year.

I'm not saying that he will definitely go - but he could go, depending on how the cards fall in other areas (e.g. whether Matt Crouch stays, what trades they intend to do).

** Well that was prescient - Matt Crouch's re-signing has just been announced, making list spaces even tighter.
The question was about Frampton. Not "do we cut a contracted player" - we may, but there are players not getting anywhere near the first 22 who'd go first.

And how was Douglas relevant? Aging player coming out of contract is nothing like Frampton - he's much closer to Mackay.
 
Clubs have a 44 member playing list, across Senior, Rookie and Cat B lists.

Ours is 36 senior, 6 rookie and 2 Cat B.

CONTRACTED ROOKIES
Jordan Butts (R)
Ben Keays (R)
Nick Murray (R)
Kieran Strachan (R)

UNCONTRACTED SENIOR LIST
Jake Kelly
Ronin O'Connor

UNCONTRACTED ROOKIE LIST
Ben Davis (R)
Patrick Parnell

James Borlase (Cat B)
Tariek Newchurch (Cat B)

ALREADY OR TO BE DELISTED
Tyson Stengle
Tom Lynch
Daniel Talia
David Mackay (R)

# # #

I think we only re-sign Parnell at this point.

If Kelly and ROC both go, with still only have five main list slots for which to add trades, draftees and any upgraded rookies.
 
Clubs have a 44 member playing list, across Senior, Rookie and Cat B lists.

Ours is 36 senior, 6 rookie and 2 Cat B.

CONTRACTED ROOKIES
Jordan Butts (R)
Ben Keays (R)
Nick Murray (R)
Kieran Strachan (R)

UNCONTRACTED SENIOR LIST
Jake Kelly
Ronin O'Connor

UNCONTRACTED ROOKIE LIST
Ben Davis (R)
Patrick Parnell

James Borlase (Cat B)
Tariek Newchurch (Cat B)

ALREADY OR TO BE DELISTED
Tyson Stengle
Tom Lynch
Daniel Talia
David Mackay (R)
So,

Rookie list out:
Gibbs
Mackay

Rookie list in:
Murray
Parnell (potentially)

List out
Stengle
Lynch
Talia

List in:
3 spots

More possible for Kelly, O'Connor

More Rookie list spots possible for Davis, Parnell

5 picks max (unless other trades). So max 2 trades in. (Unless players go out)
 
So,

Rookie list out:
Gibbs
Mackay

Rookie list in:
Murray
Parnell (potentially)

List out
Stengle
Lynch
Talia

List in:
3 spots

More possible for Kelly, O'Connor

More Rookie list spots possible for Davis, Parnell

5 picks max (unless other trades). So max 2 trades in. (Unless players go out)
Don’t think Davis will get rookie.

Im hoping with Crouch staying that means Kelly is gone but still think we will keep him. So assuming that ROK out and if we are lucky trade in one player. Leaves us 3 picks.
 
My take on it is we have 35 contracted players of the 44 this year's list
Not signed
8 Free Agent
12 Not re-contracted
14 Retired
27 Not re-contracted
37 TBA
40 TBA
51 TBA
35 TBA*
42 TBA*

Newchurch and Borlase we lose it if we don't use it. I do not think that both Dudley and O'Loughlin don't go undrafted and all the way through to CAT B Rookie. Re rookie 35 and 42.
51 Parnell re rookie
8 Kelly not sure wildcard

Then there are 5 before trading.
We pursue and land 1 Sydney player

Go to draft with 4 picks
If eligible as NGA I would take both Dudley and O'Loughlin. As I feel list needs. O'Loughlin to replace Laird or Brown in Defence and Dudley plan B in case getting Rankine doesn't work
 
My take on it is we have 35 contracted players of the 44 this year's list
Not signed
8 Free Agent
12 Not re-contracted
14 Retired
27 Not re-contracted
37 TBA
40 TBA
51 TBA
35 TBA*
42 TBA*

Newchurch and Borlase we lose it if we don't use it. I do not think that both Dudley and O'Loughlin don't go undrafted and all the way through to CAT B Rookie. Re rookie 35 and 42.
51 Parnell re rookie
8 Kelly not sure wildcard

Then there are 5 before trading.
We pursue and land 1 Sydney player

Go to draft with 4 picks
If eligible as NGA I would take both Dudley and O'Loughlin. As I feel list needs. O'Loughlin to replace Laird or Brown in Defence and Dudley plan B in case getting Rankine doesn't work
I’ve long been a fan of Dudley but he looked a bit behind the pace in the recent state game. Good last quarter but I’m starting to re think whether he makes it. O’Loughlin to be honest I’ve never been a fan of and nothing I saw last week changes that.
 
The question was about Frampton. Not "do we cut a contracted player" - we may, but there are players not getting anywhere near the first 22 who'd go first.

And how was Douglas relevant? Aging player coming out of contract is nothing like Frampton - he's much closer to Mackay.
The point is that regular player selection is not a helpful guide to list management decisions. I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Clubs have a 44 member playing list, across Senior, Rookie and Cat B lists.

Ours is 36 senior, 6 rookie and 2 Cat B.

CONTRACTED ROOKIES
Jordan Butts (R)
Ben Keays (R)
Nick Murray (R)
Kieran Strachan (R)

UNCONTRACTED SENIOR LIST
Jake Kelly
Ronin O'Connor

UNCONTRACTED ROOKIE LIST
Ben Davis (R)
Patrick Parnell

James Borlase (Cat B)
Tariek Newchurch (Cat B)

ALREADY OR TO BE DELISTED
Tyson Stengle
Tom Lynch
Daniel Talia
David Mackay (R)

# # #

I think we only re-sign Parnell at this point.

If Kelly and ROC both go, with still only have five main list slots for which to add trades, draftees and any upgraded rookies.
My guess is that Kelly & Parnell will both get new contracts, with Parnell remaining on the rookie list. Davis & ROC to be delisted. Not sure what will happen with Newchurch & Borlase - depends on what the club intends to do with Dudley & O'Loughlin.

I can definitely see one, or both, of Butts & Strachan being upgraded to the senior list. Both have been on the rookie list for 3 years, and both would have required upgrading if the AFL hadn't changed the rules for 2022. The AFL has said that the rookie list 4 year limit is temporary for 2022 only - if true, that would force us to upgrade all of Butts, Strachan & Keays next year. I don't think we want to be doing that. Mind you, the AFL also said that list reductions would be temporary for 2021 only - they lied, and they may be lying again with the rookie list change as well.

To balance this, they may look at moving a player from the senior to the rookie list. Hinge & Gollant would appear the most likely candidates.
 
My guess is that Kelly & Parnell will both get new contracts, with Parnell remaining on the rookie list. Davis & ROC to be delisted. Not sure what will happen with Newchurch & Borlase - depends on what the club intends to do with Dudley & O'Loughlin.

I can definitely see one, or both, of Butts & Strachan being upgraded to the senior list. Both have been on the rookie list for 3 years, and both would have required upgrading if the AFL hadn't changed the rules for 2022. The AFL has said that the rookie list 4 year limit is temporary for 2022 only - if true, that would force us to upgrade all of Butts, Strachan & Keays next year. I don't think we want to be doing that. Mind you, the AFL also said that list reductions would be temporary for 2021 only - they lied, and they may be lying again with the rookie list change as well.

To balance this, they may look at moving a player from the senior to the rookie list. Hinge & Gollant would appear the most likely candidates.
Currently if it comes down to push over shove I'd be retaining Borlase and Newchurch over replacing them with O'Loughlin or Dudley.
 
So,

Rookie list out:
Gibbs
Mackay

Rookie list in:
Murray
Parnell (potentially)

List out
Stengle
Lynch
Talia

List in:
3 spots

More possible for Kelly, O'Connor

More Rookie list spots possible for Davis, Parnell

5 picks max (unless other trades). So max 2 trades in. (Unless players go out)

Add:
Rookie list out: Butts
List in: Butts

I would suggest O’Connor is very likely to be delisted or at least demoted to the rookie list too in the wake of Crouch’s re-signing.

Davis is cooked. Parnell will be retained.

One (but only one) of McAdam, Himmelberg or Kelly to possibly be traded to improve our draft position - none are worth much but it might get a deal over the line. Maybe we keep them all. Could go either way.

Hopefully one or two players to be acquired via trade. First preferences obviously Dawson and Rankine but we’d be a 0.001% chance of acquiring them BOTH in the same offseason. I’d love Dawson and would happily give up Pick 4 to acquire him and Pick 12, as the difference in quality of player available at pick 4 (will be pick 6) vs pick 12 (14) will be minimal this year.

Wait until next year for one or both of Rankine or Lukosius. Stephens = backup cheaper target this year if Dawson re-signs with the Swans.
 
Every year now we see more contracted players seeking a trade for either more best 22 opportunities, or to get extra contract security

I wonder if we have any current contracted players that might be seeking a trade?

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
If we’re re-signing Kelly (and assuming we’re delisting ROC), that leaves literally only three list spots to fill. Is it just me, or is that *way* too little list turnover for a rebuilding side? And that’s assuming we don’t upgrade one of Butts/Strachan/Keays

I don’t think we can do this year what we did with Mackay/Davis last year and demote contracted players to the rookie list, either
 

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

If we’re re-signing Kelly (and assuming we’re delisting ROC), that leaves literally only three list spots to fill. Is it just me, or is that *way* too little list turnover for a rebuilding side? And that’s assuming we don’t upgrade one of Butts/Strachan/Keays

I don’t think we can do this year what we did with Mackay/Davis last year and demote contracted players to the rookie list, either
Delisting ROC would make 4 senior list positions, and delisting Davis would create a rookie list vacancy as well.

Mind you, upgrading one (or both) of Strachan & Butts would create 1 (or 2) extra rookie list vacancies, at the expense of the same number of senior list vacancies.

The bulk of the rebuild has already been done. The vast bulk of our team list, both rookie & senior, has played less than 50 AFL games. This year we've farewelled 3x senior players (Lynch, Talia, Mackay), further decreasing our team's average age & experience.

Yes, the rebuild continues - but this year it's at a slower pace than what we've seen in 2019 & 2020.
 
My take on it is we have 35 contracted players of the 44 this year's list
Not signed
8 Free Agent
12 Not re-contracted
14 Retired
27 Not re-contracted
37 TBA
40 TBA
51 TBA
35 TBA*
42 TBA*

Newchurch and Borlase we lose it if we don't use it. I do not think that both Dudley and O'Loughlin don't go undrafted and all the way through to CAT B Rookie. Re rookie 35 and 42.
51 Parnell re rookie
8 Kelly not sure wildcard

Then there are 5 before trading.
We pursue and land 1 Sydney player

Go to draft with 4 picks
If eligible as NGA I would take both Dudley and O'Loughlin. As I feel list needs. O'Loughlin to replace Laird or Brown in Defence and Dudley plan B in case getting Rankine doesn't work
I've seen a fair bit of both Dudley and O'Loughlin over the last couple of years and with their size (lack of) personally at this stage I'd only be prepared to give them a rookie spot and I'll be surprised if either aren't late speculative National Draft picks or rookie picks. I've long been saying O'Loughlin for mine to make it as an AFL player is being played at the wrong end of the ground, why he hasn't been tried as the small crumbing forward is a mystery to me.

Cooper Murley is head and shoulders above both as an AFL prospect IMHO.
 
Delisting ROC would make 4 senior list positions, and delisting Davis would create a rookie list vacancy as well.

Mind you, upgrading one (or both) of Strachan & Butts would create 1 (or 2) extra rookie list vacancies, at the expense of the same number of senior list vacancies.

The bulk of the rebuild has already been done. The vast bulk of our team list, both rookie & senior, has played less than 50 AFL games. This year we've farewelled 3x senior players (Lynch, Talia, Mackay), further decreasing our team's average age & experience.

Yes, the rebuild continues - but this year it's at a slower pace than what we've seen in 2019 & 2020.
Ah yep, I forgot about the Stengle/Parnell senior/rookie thing

The main thing that concerns me is that the club said we were going to hit the draft ‘hard’ for one more year, yet it seems like at this point we’ll probably have three picks maximum, possibly even two. A lot of our young guys, although great young talent, are still just that - not evolved senior players yet. While the rebuild continues, we should be casting a relatively wide net so that our chances of hits is higher down the road

In an ideal world, I reckon we’d be picking 4 or 5 players in the draft (as we have in 2018/19/20), but that doesn’t quite seem feasible this year, unless we don’t bring in anyone via trade (entirely possible)
 
If we’re re-signing Kelly (and assuming we’re delisting ROC), that leaves literally only three list spots to fill. Is it just me, or is that *way* too little list turnover for a rebuilding side? And that’s assuming we don’t upgrade one of Butts/Strachan/Keays

I don’t think we can do this year what we did with Mackay/Davis last year and demote contracted players to the rookie list, either

You still can but only between national and rookie drafts. So only of benefit if you need a spot created for the PSD.
 
Every year now we see more contracted players seeking a trade for either more best 22 opportunities, or to get extra contract security

I wonder if we have any current contracted players that might be seeking a trade?

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Worrell or Himmelberg would be the most likely IMO.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top