List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[Mego Red]

I don't disagree entirely but it is still an investment that's more than just money. It's a big effort to get them to the fitness level and also understanding the strategy.

I agree I don't see much point picking up another junior unless we really rate them but I think if we pick up a mature ager we should draft them because it's a need and we think they are up to AFL standard.

Sure, but we used to have squads of 52 and three coaches. We surely could manage a couple of extras.

 

[Danger in Texas]

I think it’s realistic to expect a late 1st or early 2nd in a McAsey deal, maybe with a later pick going out from us as well. He’ll still hold value, given where he was drafted, and especially if he breaks into our side at some point during the season and performs okay

There’s no way we’re getting Lipinski for him, though

 

[Mego Red]

I think it’s realistic to expect a late 1st or early 2nd in a McAsey deal, maybe with a later pick going out from us as well. He’ll still hold value, given where he was drafted, and especially if he breaks into our side at some point during the season and performs okay

There’s no way we’re getting Lipinski for him, though

I think the Lipinski value is probably only a mid second, though?

 

[Danger in Texas]

I think the Lipinski value is probably only a mid second, though?

Nah, Lipinski is a talent. Would look superb in our structure. He’s worth more than that

That said, I might be overvaluing the worth of players in general

 

[Redline]

I think it’s realistic to expect a late 1st or early 2nd in a McAsey deal, maybe with a later pick going out from us as well. He’ll still hold value, given where he was drafted, and especially if he breaks into our side at some point during the season and performs okay

There’s no way we’re getting Lipinski for him, though

I hope so but I expect a second rounder.

 

[Danger in Texas]

I hope so but I expect a second rounder.

If we don’t send a pick back, a mid 2nd is probably around the mark, unfortunately

 

[skam85]

I think it’s realistic to expect a late 1st or early 2nd in a McAsey deal, maybe with a later pick going out from us as well. He’ll still hold value, given where he was drafted, and especially if he breaks into our side at some point during the season and performs okay

There’s no way we’re getting Lipinski for him, though

Lipinski and a first rounder. It's a laughable deal when you look at what someone like Ben Brown was traded for.

 

[skam85]

Of course it's not rubbish.

McAsey has had a COVID year and four games.

Any realistic football observer would know he's done about all you could expect from a teenage tall defender. His development is tracking exactly as would be expected.

He loses some value if he walks out of the club, absolutely. But people are speaking like he's a bust, which is ridiculous.

He can't get a game in a rebuilding, bottom six side.
He took one courageous mark in an AFL game that one time and was an early pick. Cool, Jack Watts was an early pick as well.


Plenty of young players shone last season in a "COVID year". It's such a cop-out.

Those on our list spent the entire year in the gym getting bigger, and the entire year with development coaches improving their game and learning team structure. They played scratch matches every single week against opposition - obviously not the same thing as playing a full season of lower league football, but also MUCH more than a year doing nothing.

So what is it? A COVID year to write off as an excuse or...?

McAsey has currently fallen behind a rookie selection, and a SSP selection.
He might come good, but he hasn't reached any of the pick 6 heights. Not even close.

Yet you think a first rounder and very talented and far more proven Lipinski - who is simply squeezed out due to the Bulldogs' stacked midfields - is fair for McAsey and a late second round.

 

[Mego Red]

Nah, Lipinski is a talent. Would look superb in our structure. He’s worth more than that

That said, I might be overvaluing the worth of players in general

Oh, I think he's good.

But smalls in their mid twenties who don't hold a place in a team's first 22 don't normally demand a first roudner in a trade (unless I'm forgetting an example?).

 

[Mego Red]

Lipinski and a first rounder. It's a laughable deal when you look at what someone like Ben Brown was traded for.

Are you choosing to completely ignore the fact that it's a pick upgrade, not just giving up a first rounder, ffs?

I think a 20 year old pick 6 key defender is worth more than a 23 year old mid/fwd who isn't in a team's first 22. If you disagree, fine - there's no reason to be a campaigner about it.

 

[Mego Red]

He can't get a game in a rebuilding, bottom six side.
He took one courageous mark in an AFL game that one time and was an early pick. Cool, Jack Watts was an early pick as well.

Plenty of young players shone last season in a "COVID year". It's such a cop-out.

So what is it? A COVID year to write off as an excuse or...?

McAsey has currently fallen behind a rookie selection, and a SSP selection.
He might come good, but he hasn't reached any of the pick 6 heights. Not even close.

Yet you think a first rounder and very talented and far more proven Lipinski - who is simply squeezed out due to the Bulldogs' stacked midfields - is fair for McAsey and a late second round.

Lipinski has NEVER been a first 22 player for the Bulldogs. He's been in and out of their side his whole career - THAT'S what he's proven. And he seems talented, but his upside has probably been shown, and he plays a far less desirable position.

He'd be a good get, absolutely. But lets be realistic.

McAsey was the VM MVP when drafted, which was 18 months ago. Since then, he's had COVID, and a chance to keep physically progressing. He's shown about what any young KPD would have shown in their first 18 months, and clubs know that.

He's probably worth something between pick 16-24. Lipinski is probably worth an early to mid 2nd.

 

[skam85]

Are you choosing to completely ignore the fact that it's a pick upgrade, not just giving up a first rounder, ffs?

I think a 20 year old pick 6 key defender is worth more than a 23 year old mid/fwd who isn't in a team's first 22. If you disagree, fine - there's no reason to be a campaigner about it.

I didn't ignore it, I've said it's a double downgrade for the Bulldogs. It's a dumb trade for them and there's no way they'd do it.

Nice try on the campaigner card too but who called who a deadshit I'm sorry?

Lipinski has NEVER been a first 22 player for the Bulldogs. He's been in and out of their side his whole career - THAT'S what he's proven. And he seems talented, but his upside has probably been shown, and he plays a far less desirable position.

He'd be a good get, absolutely. But lets be realistic.

McAsey was the VM MVP when drafted, which was 18 months ago. Since then, he's had COVID, and a chance to keep physically progressing. He's shown about what any young KPD would have shown in their first 18 months, and clubs know that.

He's probably worth something between pick 16-24. Lipinski is probably worth an early to mid 2nd.

He's 22 years old and the Bulldogs have always had a stacked midfield which has now added Adam Treloar, despite that he has played 17 games in his second year, every game from Round 10 on in his third ... and 12/17 last year but that's a "COVID YEAR" so if it's used as an excuse for McAsey then you should probably discount it for Lipinski as well.

If "barely anything" is what a young KPD is meant to show in his first 18 months then maybe if "clubs know that" they should be taking KPDs at pick 50+.

 

[maxlilly]

I'm sick of the club recruiting delisted free agents and guys not in teams best 22.
We need talent, not more list cloggers. Especially ruckman.
Lets just keep going to the draft for a another year or two before we start worrying about trading in top up players
I'm hoping we can at least get a pick in the 20's for McAsey if he leaves but wouldn't be surprised if we get worse than that

 

[Danger in Texas]

I'm sick of the club recruiting delisted free agents and guys not in teams best 22.
We need talent, not more list cloggers. Especially ruckman.
Lets just keep going to the draft for a another year or two before we start worrying about trading in top up players
I'm hoping we can at least get a pick in the 20's for McAsey if he leaves but wouldn't be surprised if we get worse than that

You mean like Ben Keays?

 

[maxlilly]

You mean like Ben Keays?

Yes, that's one player out of about 20 we have recruited to the club.
And even he cant kick for sh*t

 

[Danger in Texas]

Yes, that's one player out of about 20 we have recruited to the club.
And even he cant kick for sh*t

You're complaining about a guy who's averaging 26.4 disposals a game and is leading the league in I50's lol

It's pretty obvious you're reaching for things to complain about so I'm gonna leave this one here

 

[Mutineer]

I'm sick of the club recruiting delisted free agents and guys not in teams best 22.
We need talent, not more list cloggers. Especially ruckman.
Lets just keep going to the draft for a another year or two before we start worrying about trading in top up players
I'm hoping we can at least get a pick in the 20's for McAsey if he leaves but wouldn't be surprised if we get worse than that

Lipinski is not a list clogger or a top up player, far, far from it and he's in the right age demographic for our team...absolutely.

 

[Golumless]

I'm sick of the club recruiting delisted free agents and guys not in teams best 22.
We need talent, not more list cloggers. Especially ruckman.
Lets just keep going to the draft for a another year or two before we start worrying about trading in top up players
I'm hoping we can at least get a pick in the 20's for McAsey if he leaves but wouldn't be surprised if we get worse than that

So we need talent, especially ruckmen, but you don't want us recruiting from the best source to find AFL capable ruckmen (and that's before factoring in we really need a depth ruck, more than an upgrade to our number 1)?

Righto.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

You're complaining about a guy who's averaging 26.4 disposals a game and is leading the league in I50's lol

It's pretty obvious you're reaching for things to complain about so I'm gonna leave this one here

Keays is fine but we've recently cycled through Crocker, Stengle and Frampton as well to get to him

Is a 1 out of 4 hit rate worthwhile? And all of those other guys have had games til we work out they're not at the level which is fewer games for draftees

Obviously clubs won't just get 100% of their players via the draft but I'd be wary of going too heavily down the recycled player path as Carlton tried

 

[Golumless]

Keays is fine but we've recently cycled through Crocker, Stengle and Frampton as well to get to him

Is a 1 out of 4 hit rate worthwhile? And all of those other guys have had games til we work out they're not at the level which is fewer games for draftees

Obviously clubs won't just get 100% of their players via the draft but I'd be wary of going too heavily down the recycled player path as Carlton tried

The key is a team needs to be ready to pull the trigger and fail these guys quickly. For instance, the idea to get Frampton is fine if we put a line through him now. It's a low cost risk to try to find a second key forward, and Billy had some traits/form in the SANFL which supported the idea. Frampton becomes a problem if he's still getting games in round 8-9 without a massive uptick in performance.

These types only becomes a genuine problem if they end up in no-mans land. That Mackay like player who ends up cemented in the best 22 by being just good enough to find a way in a desperate coaches plans to save their job/win a bit more but is thoroughly mediocre.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Keays is fine but we've recently cycled through Crocker, Stengle and Frampton as well to get to him

Is a 1 out of 4 hit rate worthwhile? And all of those other guys have had games til we work out they're not at the level which is fewer games for draftees

Obviously clubs won't just get 100% of their players via the draft but I'd be wary of going too heavily down the recycled player path as Carlton tried

Carlton have been bad at getting recycled players in, as they've gone waaaay over the top re: the amount they've brought into their club, to the point where it affected the amount of youth they could add to their list

Around one per year is fine IMO (especially as the hit rate for late draft/rookie talent is pretty low anyway). In addition, considering the amount of youth we currently have on our list, having experienced warm bodies protecting them in the reserves isn't a bad thing down the stretch, which is why I'd consider bringing in one mature ager in the mid-season draft

 

[maxlilly]

Lipinski is not a list clogger or a top up player, far, far from it and he's in the right age demographic for our team...absolutely.

I would just like to see the club recruit a best 22 player from another club instead of fringe players.
How many players have we traded in over the last 10 years that have played 100 games for the Crows ?
Lynch ? any more ?

 

[maxlilly]

So we need talent, especially ruckmen, but you don't want us recruiting from the best source to find AFL capable ruckmen (and that's before factoring in we really need a depth ruck, more than an upgrade to our number 1)?

Righto.

I'm saying we draft a ruckman with more than a rookie pick

 

[Vader]

I would just like to see the club recruit a best 22 player from another club instead of fringe players.
How many players have we traded in over the last 10 years that have played 100 games for the Crows ?
Lynch ? any more ?

Jenkins (147 games)
Betts (132 games)

Honourable mention to Seedsman, who is currently on 66 games.

Betts was an established star (and was taken via Free Agency), but Jenkins came off Essendon's rookie list and Seedsman couldn't get a game with the Pies (despite having won the ANZAC medal).

 

[maxlilly]

Jenkins (147 games)
Betts (132 games)

Honourable mention to Seedsman, who is currently on 66 games.

Betts was an established star (and was taken via Free Agency), but Jenkins came off Essendon's rookie list and Seedsman couldn't get a game with the Pies (despite having won the ANZAC medal).

Yep, I'll give you Jenkins, how could I forget about him
Betts as you say was a star before he got here, I was referring more to fringe players
It would be nice to see the club target these best 22 types of players later in the rebuild.
Unfortunately we have been burnt a bit with Menzel and Gibbs recently as well.
I would even class Seedsman as a winning trade for us with 66 games